At The Combine

James · #1 02-25-2009, 11:15 PM

Probably not the appropriate spot for this post, however; I was perusing the old draft pick value chart, considering some mock draft possibilities, when I realized that either Stafford, Sanchez, or (now a bit more likely) both, will be there at 15. After the 15th pick though, the Jets, Bucs, Bears, and Lions are in some need of a QB. Whether its both or just Sanchez, it would (wouldn't it?) suit the Lions to take the best tackle (J Smith) #1 and trade us their 3rd to move up . . .wouldn't it? Perhaps just dreaming . . .

painekiller · #2 02-26-2009, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James

Probably not the appropriate spot for this post, however; I was perusing the old draft pick value chart, considering some mock draft possibilities, when I realized that either Stafford, Sanchez, or (now a bit more likely) both, will be there at 15. After the 15th pick though, the Jets, Bucs, Bears, and Lions are in some need of a QB. Whether its both or just Sanchez, it would (wouldn't it?) suit the Lions to take the best tackle (J Smith) #1 and trade us their 3rd to move up . . .wouldn't it? Perhaps just dreaming . . .

No I find that a very plausible thing to happen.

jppaul · #3 02-26-2009, 01:03 AM

I am personally on the draft Malcolm Jenkins at 15 to be a safety train now.

mussop · #4 02-26-2009, 03:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul

I am personally on the draft Malcolm Jenkins at 15 to be a safety train now.

I would be extremely happy with that!

papabear · #5 02-26-2009, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul

I am personally on the draft Malcolm Jenkins at 15 to be a safety train now.

I'm intrigued by this idea. A guy who was considered a top corner at Safety sounds great on paper. The problem is playing safety is a whole other skill set than playing man coverage type corner. I don't know enough about Jenkins to know if he would make a good safety or not, but there's more to being a safety than just being a slow corner.

BigBull · #6 02-26-2009, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papabear

I'm intrigued by this idea. A guy who was considered a top corner at Safety sounds great on paper. The problem is playing safety is a whole other skill set than playing man coverage type corner. I don't know enough about Jenkins to know if he would make a good safety or not, but there's more to being a safety than just being a slow corner.

He actually played a lot of safety for the Ohio State Buckeyes.

Roy P · #7 02-26-2009, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBull

He actually played a lot of safety for the Ohio State Buckeyes.

Jenkins is pretty adamant that he is a CB. Now, perhaps he's being defensive because he was considered a top ten pick before he ran a 4.55. Maybe he realizes that CB money is going to be more than FS money.

If I were to go by on field attributes, Vontae Davis would make the better FS. Then the 1st problem is will he be available at #15 after his Combine. He may be the ONLY CB worthy of a 1st round pick in this draft. The 2nd problem is he going to be willing to learn a new position that will potentially earn him less money.

The pundits point at Antrel Rolle in Arizona as the model. However, Rolle was given the opportunity to play CB before he was moved to FS. We are dealing with real people with pride in themselves who have been successful at every level. You have to be careful that they don't feel disrespected or you won't get the best effort out of them.

On the other hand, players who are drafted later in the draft, perhaps were not recruited (but walked on at College), will be very eager to do whatever it takes to make a roster. A player who feels he has something to prove has the intrinsic motivation to learn a new position. A "stud" who feels he has nothing to prove might learn a new position, but he'll do so begrudgingly.

jppaul · #8 02-26-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papabear

I'm intrigued by this idea. A guy who was considered a top corner at Safety sounds great on paper. The problem is playing safety is a whole other skill set than playing man coverage type corner. I don't know enough about Jenkins to know if he would make a good safety or not, but there's more to being a safety than just being a slow corner.

Yeah, PB, but Jenkins also played alot of safety at Ohio State, he wasn't exclusively a corner they moved him around. Come on man, you don't think that I would base drafting him at safety because he was slow. Have a little faith.

I was just thinking after running that time he might actually be around at 15 now.

papabear · #9 02-26-2009, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul

Yeah, PB, but Jenkins also played alot of safety at Ohio State, he wasn't exclusively a corner they moved him around. Come on man, you don't think that I would base drafting him at safety because he was slow. Have a little faith.

I was just thinking after running that time he might actually be around at 15 now.

I did kinda forget about that...but I still don't how much "alot" is. I don't watch the big 10 much. Consider it a general statement on the idea that you can just move any slow-ish corner to safety and everything will work out.

nunusguy · #10 02-26-2009, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jppaul

I am personally on the draft Malcolm Jenkins at 15 to be a safety train now.

We just signed our starting FS to a 3-year contract.

mussop · #11 02-26-2009, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James

Probably not the appropriate spot for this post, however; I was perusing the old draft pick value chart, considering some mock draft possibilities, when I realized that either Stafford, Sanchez, or (now a bit more likely) both, will be there at 15. After the 15th pick though, the Jets, Bucs, Bears, and Lions are in some need of a QB. Whether its both or just Sanchez, it would (wouldn't it?) suit the Lions to take the best tackle (J Smith) #1 and trade us their 3rd to move up . . .wouldn't it? Perhaps just dreaming . . .

Check this thread out its already been talked about. I still think this is one of our best shots at trading down. No way Detroit drafts a QB first. I just dont believe it. The pick will be Curry or (more likely) Monroe. If one of the top QB's fall they will have to jump in front of a few other teams to assure they get one. Surrendering a 3rd to make sure they get their QB of the future isnt out of the question.

Roy P · #12 02-26-2009, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mussop

Check this thread out its already been talked about.

Surrendering a 3rd to make sure they get their QB of the future isnt out of the question.

I'd love to trade down and get more picks, but let's step back a minute. The Detroit Lions could very well bundle some picks to the Patriots for the opportunity to pay Matt Cassel to play QB. He is the safest QB they could get because they have seen the level of play he's capable of in the NFL.

The San Diego Chargers are behind us with Whitehurst, Voler, and Rivers. Why wouldn't the Lions just trade up to #16 instead of #15? They just need to get ahead of the Jets, right?

papabear · #13 02-26-2009, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy P

The San Diego Chargers are behind us with Whitehurst, Voler, and Rivers. Why wouldn't the Lions just trade up to #16 instead of #15? They just need to get ahead of the Jets, right?

That's simple....because we just called the lions and told them that the jets were on the other line. How about you handle the scouting and I handle the trades

Roy P · #14 02-26-2009, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papabear

That's simple....because we just called the lions and told them that the jets were on the other line. How about you handle the scouting and I handle the trades

If you are going to handle the trades, then make the deal with the Jets. That way we don't have to drop down to #20, we only have to drop to #17.

painekiller · #15 02-26-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy P

If you are going to handle the trades, then make the deal with the Jets. That way we don't have to drop down to #20, we only have to drop to #17.

And what the heck do you want at 17? I want to drop completely out of the 1st and gather a bunch of 2nd round picks. That is when the value seems to outway the questions.

papabear · #16 02-26-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painekiller

And what the heck do you want at 17? I want to drop completely out of the 1st and gather a bunch of 2nd round picks. That is when the value seems to outway the questions.

I would have no problem moving back several times and ending up with several picks in the second...and maybe a couple extra for the third too

Roy P · #17 02-26-2009, 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by painekiller

And what the heck do you want at 17? I want to drop completely out of the 1st and gather a bunch of 2nd round picks. That is when the value seems to outway the questions.

I don't know yet who's going to be at #17. If Orakpo is there still at #15, I might not want to trade down. Maybe Vontae Davis at #17, if the Saints don't draft him at #14. Perhaps, BJ Raji is still sitting there or perhaps Aaron Curry or Michael Crabtree. I just don't know right now.

What I do know is that this draft does not appear to have a bunch of guys that meet all of my measurables. There are a lot of questionable players who may or may not make much of themselves. I suppose, that is your reasoning for wanting many 2nd round picks. My problem is, how many of those players we are expecting to be available in the 2nd round, end up being selected in the 1st round.

I've seen Clay Matthews and Donald Brown beginning to move up boards. Lawrence Sidbury should be climbing up shortly. The OC's Unger, Mack, and Woods are moving up. I may have 2nd round picks that I can only use on players like William Moore and Michael Johnson (guys who were 1st rounders, but were bumped down and out). It's still to early to tell. Heck, Rang has the Colts drafting Ziggy Hood in the 1st round now!

NickO · #18 02-26-2009, 05:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James

Probably not the appropriate spot for this post, however; I was perusing the old draft pick value chart, considering some mock draft possibilities, when I realized that either Stafford, Sanchez, or (now a bit more likely) both, will be there at 15. After the 15th pick though, the Jets, Bucs, Bears, and Lions are in some need of a QB. Whether its both or just Sanchez, it would (wouldn't it?) suit the Lions to take the best tackle (J Smith) #1 and trade us their 3rd to move up . . .wouldn't it? Perhaps just dreaming . . .

Shades of Cleveland in 2007. In bad need of a QB, selected Joe Thomas 3rd overall then traded back up to grab Brady Quinn.

Browns Got:
2007 1st Rd Pick (22nd Overall)

Dallas Got:
2007 2nd Rd Pick (36th Overall)
2008 1st Rd Pick (which turned out to be 22nd Overall thanks to Derek Anderson)

So the question is, would the Texans trade back from 15th overall for the Lions 2nd rounder (33rd overall) and their 1st next year? That's a long way to trade back, but remember a couple things:

1) Consensus is there's a lack of top-end talent in the 2009 draft, but good depth
2) The Lions just went 0-16 and are freaking terrible, that could be a top five pick. Hell, Cleveland was freaking terrible and they were willing to gamble (Phil Savage got fired, but whatever)

nunusguy · #19 02-26-2009, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James

Whether its both or just Sanchez

Excuse the digression, but can you just imagine the commercial potential of a Texas football franchise that has a Latino QB ?

James · #20 02-26-2009, 07:41 AM

VY would have brought commercial appeal, or even ReBu, the Texans don't care for appeal clearly, which is a good thing in my opinion. In regards to a third not being enough to drop 5 spots, the trusty value chart says we are +100 points in this deal, and; in my opinion are clearly getting the better of the deal considering the talent that will still be available there at 20 . . .just my 2 cents though.