Jaguars Offense vs. Texans Offense [Split Thread]

[barrett]

Originally Posted by popanot

No matter how much you dismiss Bortles' numbers and try to validate Hoyer's/HOU QB's (even though we had quite a few blow-out garbage time TD's), I'd still trade Hoyer/Nuk/Washington/Blue-Etc/Griffin-etc for Bortles/ARobinson/Hurns/Yeldon/DRobinson/Thomas without blinking an eye. I'm pretty confident most, if not all, NFL GM's would do the same. I'd also be confident our coaching staff could develop and help improve any weaknesses these players might have. In addition, a much better D would be less likely to put them in bad situations and force them to take added risks. As for the other QBs you mention, of course there are other QBs I'd take over Bortles (maybe not all of the ones on your list), but that has nothing to do with my original point. It was strictly JAX/HOU players.

I'm not scared of them overtaking us either because I think their coaching staff sucks and they have a long way to go to upgrade that horrendous D. However, that doesn't change the fact I think they have a good, young offensive core.

If you want to pick one set or the other it is close but I probably go Jags.

But when you consider the fact that Jacksonville has invested large resources into their guys and thus are locked into them, I'd prefer our guys. Jacksonville cannot upgrade QB except with internal improvement. Bortles will be there until at least 1 (probably 2) coaches lose their job. The same is true with Yeldon to a lesser degree. They invested a 2nd round pick in him so he will keep getting low impact carries for at least a year or two. No assets will be spent on upgrading that position because the GM is tied to Yeldon. Same with Joekel. He wouldn't be on the field if the team didn't need to justify his draft position. He's a turnstile. But they can't do anything else until they cut bait. They are solid at WR, although I don't think there is a true #1 that teams fear. That is the hardest piece to fill at WR, and they will not be filling it any time soon because they are committed to all of their WRs already. I'd say their WR group is their best position group, but it is still not among the best in the NFL. Like I said earlier, at TE they either have a stud they ruined, or an average player made to look great by peak Peyton Manning. He averaged less than 10 YPC this year and did little in the redzone. Either way they are at least average or maybe good.

They have a mediocre offense that might reach above average potential if the coaching staff doesn't screw them up. But it's a low ceiling group that they are locked into. They are not replacing/upgrading any of the skill guys because the GM bet on all of them.

Houston has 1 piece we are tied to in our skill guys and a functional offensive line. But we are open to free to replace and shuffle everywhere else. I'd already take our WR group just based on Hopkins. There is not a GM out there who would deal a great WR for a really good one and a handful of above average ones. I also like Strong if O'Brien ever plays him. I'd take our RB situation over theirs. I like Blue more than Yeldon because he does more for the team (ST) and his draft position allows us to make him the #2 or #3 back without hesitation. I also like Hunt as a Roster spot guy. Our TEs are terrible. I'd take 31 other team's TE situation over ours. It think we have a solid OL and really good OL depth.

So I'd take the Jacksonville guys if I was required to take a group and stick with them the next 2 years. But I'd far prefer our group and the flexibility it allows. Of course that is assuming that O'Brien actually decides to address the QB situation at some time in the next 2 offseasons.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by barrett

If you want to pick one set or the other it is close but I probably go Jags.

But when you consider the fact that Jacksonville has invested large resources into their guys and thus are locked into them, I'd prefer our guys. Jacksonville cannot upgrade QB except with internal improvement. Bortles will be there until at least 1 (probably 2) coaches lose their job. The same is true with Yeldon to a lesser degree. They invested a 2nd round pick in him so he will keep getting low impact carries for at least a year or two. No assets will be spent on upgrading that position because the GM is tied to Yeldon. Same with Joekel. He wouldn't be on the field if the team didn't need to justify his draft position. He's a turnstile. But they can't do anything else until they cut bait. They are solid at WR, although I don't think there is a true #1 that teams fear. That is the hardest piece to fill at WR, and they will not be filling it any time soon because they are committed to all of their WRs already. I'd say their WR group is their best position group, but it is still not among the best in the NFL. Like I said earlier, at TE they either have a stud they ruined, or an average player made to look great by peak Peyton Manning. He averaged less than 10 YPC this year and did little in the redzone. Either way they are at least average or maybe good.

They have a mediocre offense that might reach above average potential if the coaching staff doesn't screw them up. But it's a low ceiling group that they are locked into. They are not replacing/upgrading any of the skill guys because the GM bet on all of them.

Houston has 1 piece we are tied to in our skill guys and a functional offensive line. But we are open to free to replace and shuffle everywhere else. I'd already take our WR group just based on Hopkins. There is not a GM out there who would deal a great WR for a really good one and a handful of above average ones. I also like Strong if O'Brien ever plays him. I'd take our RB situation over theirs. I like Blue more than Yeldon because he does more for the team (ST) and his draft position allows us to make him the #2 or #3 back without hesitation. I also like Hunt as a Roster spot guy. Our TEs are terrible. I'd take 31 other team's TE situation over ours. It think we have a solid OL and really good OL depth.

So I'd take the Jacksonville guys if I was required to take a group and stick with them the next 2 years. But I'd far prefer our group and the flexibility it allows. Of course that is assuming that O'Brien actually decides to address the QB situation at some time in the next 2 offseasons.

And I'm not dismissing numbers. I am saying Bortles is only better than Hoyer in volume stats and is worse in all of the efficiency stats (Passer rating, TD:INT, etc...).

And that is comparing Bortles to journeyman BRIAN HOYER.

[popanot]

I'm not ready to write off Bortles or Yeldon at this point or say their ceiling is this or that. I think they'd be even better with a good OL and coaching staff (and D). I'm not going to anoint Cousins as great, but I think his improvement shows that guys can grow and improve when you get experience and add in a good mix of players, protect well, and have a decent scheme/coaching staff (and also a decent D that doesn't kill you in score and field position). I also don't think Allen Robinson is that far off from Nuk, and Hurns is a major upgrade to Washington. I also like Greene over Shorts. I like what I see so far from Strong and hope he continues to develop. If so, I'll gladly change my mind on a WR swap.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by popanot

I'm not ready to write off Bortles or Yeldon at this point or say their ceiling is this or that. I think they'd be even better with a good OL and coaching staff (and D). I'm not going to anoint Cousins as great, but I think his improvement shows that guys can grow and improve when you get experience and add in a good mix of players, protect well, and have a decent scheme/coaching staff (and also a decent D that doesn't kill you in score and field position). I also don't think Allen Robinson is that far off from Nuk, and Hurns is a major upgrade to Washington. I also like Greene over Shorts. I like what I see so far from Strong and hope he continues to develop. If so, I'll gladly change my mind on a WR swap.

I think Bortles is much more likely to make a jump than Yelden. RBs just don't really improve. They are either good or not. Yelden is just a guy. There is just so much cheap/free depth at that position.

Bortles shows every skill you need but two; (1) decision making, and (2) accuracy. In terms of decision making, he has thrown some of the worst and most head scratching interceptions I've ever seen. However, this is an area he can improve, and it is an area that pretty much every NFL QB improves in as they get more experience and get to know an offense better. He has already improved here a lot in his 2 years (even though he threw more INTs this year than last year). But accuracy generally doesn't improve. QBs may raise their completion percentage a bit by knowing better where to throw it, but they almost never get better at their ability to throw it where they want. Bortles was a 58% passer this year. That puts him 31st among QBs and just behind Colin Kaepernick. just doesn't cut it in the current NFL. He just doesn't throw it where he wants to like a really good NFL QB. So I think the unflappable attitude, the arm, the athleticism, the solid group of WRs, and the improvement he's already shown will be somewhat offset by the inaccuracy, and he has the potential to be a good QB but never close to a great one. And I only think he becomes a good one if the Jags suddenly become a competent coaching staff. I would bet money that doesn't happen and instead a new coach is there a year from now with a new system and a future not tied to Bortles. I'd be surprised if he's a full time starter in 2018.

[barrett]

The Jags are garbage. Anyone who was fooled by the fact they have lots of high draft picks that are also young, let this be a reminder that they are awful. The TDs Bortles threw against air while trailing by 30 in the 4th quarter are vintage Bortles. He will do that enough to throw for 4000 yards and 30 TDs and convince people they are ready to take the 'jump'. They play no defense. Their HC is bad. Their QB is bad. They will stay bad for a while.

We have plenty of issues in our Franchise, and yet we are football geniuses next to them.

[chuck]

Bortles is a slightly less stupid and possibly less talented Tebow.

Let us not gloat, as we are saddled with the NFL version of Bambi.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

Bortles is a slightly less stupid and possibly less talented Tebow.

Let us not gloat, as we are saddled with the NFL version of Bambi.

Saddled is the key word. Like I said when this thread was active, the only thing worse than being bad is being bad and committed. And we are bad at QB and we are committed to him. Our only hope at QB improvement is Brock getting better.