Freeman: Would you?

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

I think you replied to the wrong post. Either way you're an idiot if you think Kubiak is always responsible when things go wrong but never a part of it when things go right.

No, you're right. Let's give Kubiak all the credit he's due for the excellent defense under the outstanding leadership of DC Frank Bush.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

No, you're right. Let's give Kubiak all the credit he's due for the excellent defense under the outstanding leadership of DC Frank Bush.

Again you want to blame him for Bush and give no credit for Wade. It's one or the other. If he gets no credit for Wade he gets no blame for Bush and vice versa.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by barrett

Again you want to blame him for Bush and give no credit for Wade. It's one or the other. If he gets no credit for Wade he gets no blame for Bush and vice versa.

Actually, in those particular scenarios, a good argument could be made for what you said. Bush was promoted after everyone else was fired on what was one of the worst defenses in league history. Further, no one was even interviewed. There was never even an attempt to explain this ridiculousness other than Bush was Kubiak's buddy.

As for Wade, there has been serious speculation that he was forced on Kubiak. I guess we don't know for sure but considering his previous hires, it's not an unreasonable conclusion. So, a strong argument could be made that he does bear responsibility for Bush but deserves little credit for Wade.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Joshua

As for Wade, there has been serious speculation that he was forced on Kubiak. I guess we don't know for sure but considering his previous hires, it's not an unreasonable conclusion. So, a strong argument could be made that he does bear responsibility for Bush but deserves little credit for Wade.

This is so staggeringly obvious that anyone taking a position otherwise can only be defending the palm-licker simply to be contrary.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

This is so staggeringly obvious that anyone taking a position otherwise can only be defending the palm-licker simply to be contrary.

Chuck, you are so transparent. You piss and whine about every loss but never give any credit for a win. Seriously, I have never seen you make a single positive comment about a coach for our franchise. Every win is in spite of them and every loss because of them. You are a broken record.

It's "staggeringly obvious" to you that we should be 4-0, but the guys who assembled and coached the team that should be 4-0 are palm-licking retards. That is what I mean by hollow. You give NO credit and all blame. Kubiak is the all powerful boogie man behind every failure but the impotent figure head behind every success. It can't be both ways. It's an intellectually dishonest argument.

[chuck]

I expect people who are paid significant amount of money to coach in the NFL to exhibit excellence. Excellence is needed to win championships in the NFL. Kubiak is plainly not operating at excellence.

The defense, over which Kubiak has no real input or control, is playing at an elite level. The offense, which is Kubiak's, is nowhere near its potential and is costing the team games. The special teams I'll leave on McNair's doorstep.

[barrett]

Josh Freeman was not allowed on the sideline by Schiano. He was forced to watch Sunday's game from a suite. Schiano claimed it was mutual and then Freeman's agent said that was a total lie. That whole situation just gets weirder and weirder. You would think Freeman was dating Schiano's daughter from the way it's gone down.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Actually, in those particular scenarios, a good argument could be made for what you said. Bush was promoted after everyone else was fired on what was one of the worst defenses in league history. Further, no one was even interviewed. There was never even an attempt to explain this ridiculousness other than Bush was Kubiak's buddy.

As for Wade, there has been serious speculation that he was forced on Kubiak. I guess we don't know for sure but considering his previous hires, it's not an unreasonable conclusion. So, a strong argument could be made that he does bear responsibility for Bush but deserves little credit for Wade.

And it would be a hollow argument. Either Kubiak makes the hires and is responsible for the whole team or he is not. I personally think he does not have a huge hand in our defense, other than protecting them with TOP and a good running game. But Bill Bellachik is a defensive coach who gets all the credit for the Pats offense and none of the blame for the crappy defense of the past 5 years. That is what being the HEAD coach means. You are responsible. It is hollow to put it all on the head coach when a team loses and not when they win. That would be like saying we lost today because we are a pathetic group that turtles up when things get tough, because that is our head coach's personality. But we won late against SD and TEN and it has nothing to do with our HC's personality.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by barrett

And it would be a hollow argument. Either Kubiak makes the hires and is responsible for the whole team or he is not. I personally think he does not have a huge hand in our defense, other than protecting them with TOP and a good running game. But Bill Bellachik is a defensive coach who gets all the credit for the Pats offense and none of the blame for the crappy defense of the past 5 years. That is what being the HEAD coach means. You are responsible. It is hollow to put it all on the head coach when a team loses and not when they win. That would be like saying we lost today because we are a pathetic group that turtles up when things get tough, because that is our head coach's personality. But we won late against SD and TEN and it has nothing to do with our HC's personality.

No, the hollow argument is attributing the same responsibilty/credit to both decisions when it is very likely that only one decision was his (hint-the bad one) and the other decision was made in spite of his wishes (another hint-the good one).

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Joshua

No, the hollow argument is attributing the same responsibilty/credit to both decisions when it is very likely that only one decision was his (hint-the bad one) and the other decision was made in spite of his wishes (another hint-the good one).

Very likely? According to what, the crack reporters at the Chronicle? You don't have a clue about either situation and are painting them how you want to fit a pre-determined argument. Head coaches get the blame and the credit, simple as that. Kubiak gets the blame today for Schaub even though we were a well coached team. And he got the credit when Hopkins jumped over a guys head on a crappy pass to set us up to win in OT. We can't cherry pick when he is the head coach and when he isn't really the head coach.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by barrett

Very likely? According to what, the crack reporters at the Chronicle? You don't have a clue about either situation and are painting them how you want to fit a pre-determined argument. Head coaches get the blame and the credit, simple as that. Kubiak gets the blame today for Schaub even though we were a well coached team. And he got the credit when Hopkins jumped over a guys head on a crappy pass to set us up to win in OT. We can't cherry pick when he is the head coach and when he isn't really the head coach.

Everyone here has to make some educated guesses based on the info. we have. You do it, I do it. We all do it. If you now object to that, i guess we should all just go home because none of us have keys to Reliant.

I don't have the time or inclination to go find articles from 3 years ago, but you know as well as I that it was largely believed that Wade was forced on Kubiak by McNair. At least my speculation has some support.

As for Kubiak, I'm actually more torn than you might expect. I give him a fair amount of credit for our drafts because i think he's heavily involved in the draft and I'm not sure anyone has drafted better than us in the last 4 years. However, since you think such speculation on my part is improper since I'm not there and don't know this for a fact, I guess I should judge him solely on gamedays from now on.