NFL Combine

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Bigtinylittle

I'm a big advocate of drafting for need in the first round.

Hmm, we no longer have anything to discuss. There is too much money involved in a first round pick to miss the mark by reaching for a player to fill a need. I understand wanting the 1st round rookie to come in and start and the easiest way for that to happen is by drafting a position of need. However, if the player is talented enough, you may find it hard to keep him on the bench. We will just have to agree to disagree.

[Blitzwood]

Originally Posted by Roy P

There is too much money involved in a first round pick to miss the mark by reaching for a player to fill a need.

see Duane Brown

[Bigtinylittle]

From what I understand, the Texans are happy with that pick. They had a desperate need and filled it the best they could.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Bigtinylittle

From what I understand, the Texans are happy with that pick. They had a desperate need and filled it the best they could.

And they are publicly going to go say Duane is a reach? Not going to happen.

[Nconroe]

Duane was what, the eighth OT drafted in 2008. For sure a pick of need at the time. Seems to be working out ok since Texans had no. 1 ranked passing offense in 2009, perhaps after two years looks like not a reach. in 2008 had no 13 rushing offense. Duane Brown was faster in 40 and slightly heavier than all guys taken above him I think.

Pick # NFL Team Player Position College
1 Miami Dolphins Jake Long Offensive tackle Michigan
Miam no 20 passing offense, 15 TD, 34 sacks, 198 yds/gm, no 4 rush
12 Denver Broncos Ryan Clady Offensive tackle Boise State
Denver no 13 passing offense, 21 TD, 34 sacks, 223 yds/gm, no 18 rush
14 Chicago Bears Chris Williams Offensive tackle Vanderbilt
Chicago no 17 passing offense, 27 TD, 35 sacks, 217 yds/gm, no 29 rush
15 Kansas City Chiefs Branden Albert Offensive tackle Virginia
Kansad City no 25 passing offense 18 TD, 45 sacks, 183 yds/gm, no 11 rush
17 Detroit Lions Gosder Cherilus Offensive tackle Boston College
Detroit no 21 passing offense 16 TD , 43 sacks, 198 yds/gm, no 24 rush
19 Carolina Panthers Jeff Otah Offensive tackle Pittsburgh
Carolina no 27 passing offense 16 TD, 33 sacks, 175 yds/gm, no 3 rush
21 Atlanta Falcons Sam Baker Offensive tackle USC
Atlanta no 14 passing offense, 27 TD, 27 sacks, 223 yds/gm, no 15 rush
26 Houston Texans Duane Brown Offensive tackle Virginia Tech
Houston no. 1 passing offense 29 TD, 25 sack, 291 yds/gm, no 30 rush

[Bigtinylittle]

I might feel more out on a limb about advocating drafting for need in the first round if weren't for the fact that almost all teams do it. About this time of year they all come out and say they are going to take the BPA, and then they go out and draft for need. They asolutely hate to reach, though. So they all sit in their war rooms and hope that when their time to draft comes the BPA turns out to be at one of their positions of greatest need. When that doesn't happen, they swallow hard and reach a bit.

I do agree that Duane Brown was a reach at the time, and probably a greater reach than we will ever see Smithiak make again. They were in a position where they had no LT to protect their franchise QB, a guy who is known for his lack of mobility. They were in a bind. When their turn came, I think they were surprised that so many LTs were already gone off the board. But they needed a LT badly so they bit the bullet and took Brown.

They never have publicly admitted they reached. I wouldn't either if I were them. For one thing, it is a knock on Brown if they do, and they never publicly knock their players.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Bigtinylittle

I might feel more out on a limb about advocating drafting for need in the first round if weren't for the fact that almost all teams do it. About this time of year they all come out and say they are going to take the BPA, and then they go out and draft for need.

I agree that they do it. I'm just saying that putting those blinders on where you only see players who fill needs, can hurt an organization.

KC was trying hard to find the next Richard Seymour for their defense and drafted Tyson Jackson with the 3rd overall pick last year. I kept wondering why in the world they wouldn't take Brian Orakpo since he would fit into their 3-4 concept. However, they already had Mike Vrabel so there wasn't a "need" on the roster. They were able to get Pierre Walters late in the draft to groom.

The Raiders selected Darius Heyward-Bey because JaMarcus Russell sucks. So, they figured that he needed a WR to make him look good. A fast guy so he could throw the ball 50 yards down the field. Al Davis didn't realize he could draft Mike Williams in the 3rd round and get a better WR, and he could have drafted Brian Cushing instead with his 1st pick. Then again, Linebackers just arent' drafted that high. At least, that's the consensus opinion.

There are other examples every year where teams just ignore the overwhelming evidence that player 'A' has the more talent than player 'B' but choose 'B' because he fills a need. Then, when 'A' outperforms the bust that they chose, they simply use the excuse that 'A' didn't fit their scheme or system. They forget to admit that 'B' obviously didn't fit either or he'd been able to produce.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

Duane was what, the eighth OT drafted in 2008.
Duane Brown was faster in 40 and slightly heavier than all guys taken above him I think.

Pick # NFL Team Player Position College
1 Miami Dolphins Jake Long Offensive tackle Michigan
Miam no 20 passing offense, 15 TD, 34 sacks, 198 yds/gm, no 4 rush
12 Denver Broncos Ryan Clady Offensive tackle Boise State
Denver no 13 passing offense, 21 TD, 34 sacks, 223 yds/gm, no 18 rush

26 Houston Texans Duane Brown Offensive tackle Virginia Tech
Houston no. 1 passing offense 29 TD, 25 sack, 291 yds/gm, no 30 rush

So, this shows that Duane Brown is a better Left Tackle than either Jake Long or Ryan Clady? Man, we were so lucky to get him at #26.

[Nconroe]

nope, doesn't show yet who is best LT, maybe in a couple more years we'll know that. Just shows the Texans likely did pretty good and after two years, if it was a reach, it is working out fairly well. that is all. sometimes reaches work out. Someone was saying 50% of picks work out as expected. maybe we were lucky, maybe we did proper analysis, I said it was for need, not BPA at the position we drafted in. And it was a tradedown with another pick as well.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Blitzwood

see Duane Brown

The team may be happy with Duane Brown, but while they filled a need, they could have drafted DeSean Jackson or Ray Rice. I'm not saying the Jeremy Zuttah would have been a better LT, but I'd have felt fine moving Pitts back to LT if I had Ray Rice running behind him. However, we have a "need" filled. What is ironic is, we were able to pass on Michael Oher to draft Brian Cushing the next draft. If Cushing and Oher had both left school early and had been in the previous draft, I'd be willing to wager that Oher would have been the Texan.

[Blitzwood]

For the record, I thought it was a huge reach to take him in the first round. But I believe it was Gibbs who really wanted him so who am I to argue. Also, I believe we didn't have another pick until the 3rd round.

It was definitely to fill a need versus BPA.

BTW, Matt Forte would have looked good in Battle Red on Sundays.