Do We Need a Change at HC?

[idymoe]

Originally Posted by NBT

I think it was Bum who said, I can beat you with our'n, and I can beat you with your'n. If that doesn't mean coaching is the defining thing, I don't know what would be. Kubiak is just not going to get the job done. Why not realize that now, and go ahead and make the move? He can fall on his sword for the players all he wants to but the bottom line is he has had four years to do it, and, while we have improved, we still aren't any closer to the SB than we were.

The quote was by Bum, but he wasn't talking about himself. He was talking about Bear Bryant. He said, "he could take his'n and beat your'n, or he could take your'n and beat his'n."

By the way, if you don't think we have a way better team than 4 years ago, then I don't know what to say.

[NBT]

Right it was Bear Bryant, and my intent was to speak to the way some coaches get the utmost out of their players, and some just don't. Up to now Kubes has not.

Four games better is not the playoffs, and that is what this whole town is thirsting for.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by NBT

Right it was Bear Bryant, and my intent was to speak to the way some coaches get the utmost out of their players, and some just don't. Up to now Kubes has not.

Four games better is not the playoffs, and that is what this whole town is thirsting for.

please check out my post

Bum was talking about Don Shula. Not Bear Bryant.

My reason for voting in favor of Kubiak for one more year is if you go back through the season, we are only a handful of plays going in the other direction from being a top 5 team record wise.

I fear changing HC would mean a step back for a year or two, something none of us wants to do again.

Also if the team adds 3 new starters in the next draft that upgrades us like Cushing did, we would have to be a playoff team.... don't we?

[barrett]

Originally Posted by painekiller

please check out my post

Bum was talking about Don Shula. Not Bear Bryant.

My reason for voting in favor of Kubiak for one more year is if you go back through the season, we are only a handful of plays going in the other direction from being a top 5 team record wise.

I fear changing HC would mean a step back for a year or two, something none of us wants to do again.

Also if the team adds 3 new starters in the next draft that upgrades us like Cushing did, we would have to be a playoff team.... don't we?

A few thoughts.

How do we make those "handful of plays" next year with the same crew in key positions. An NFL team has an identity and a culture. Our team is an offensive team and there are only two places from which we can change the culture of our team, QB and Head Coach. To me, you can't have two guys deciding our fate who have never suceeded in their current jobs. And since replacing Schaub is equal to a do over, I think the easier switch is Kubiak.

Many teams change head coaches, and very few step back (unless there is a rebuilding goal). Many coaches like Dungy and Gruden stepped in and pushed there teams over the top. If you hire the right coach, nothing says you are going to step back a year or two.

How are we supposed pick up 3 guys in the draft that upgrade us like Cushing did?

Kubiak is great from Monday to Saturday, but he is a bad gameday coach. I just don't see this changing for him with on the job training. I think he'll leave Houston unsuccessful and it will be a few years of play calling as an OC before he works out the kinks and truly settles in as a Head Coach. Either way he helped move our franchise forward and I am grateful for that. I just think he has taken us as far as he is going to.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by barrett

How are we supposed pick up 3 guys in the draft that upgrade us like Cushing did?

In another thread I showed these off seasons moves.

1st Joe Haden CB Florida
trade our 1st and 2nd from 2011 for
1st Dan Williams DT/NT 6-3 322 Tennessee
2nd Jon Asamoah OG 06-4 308 Illinois
3rd Toby Gerhart RB 6-1 235 Stanford
4th Vince Oghobaase DT/NT 6-6 302 Duke
5th Mike Pouncey OG 6-5 315 Florida OG
6th Justin Woodall S 6-2 221 Alabama
Travis Johnson pick 6th Daniel Thomas RB 6-2 227 Kansas State
7th Darryl Sharpton LB 5-11 237 Miami

Haden takes the place of Dunta. You sign him and get him to camp. He will help this team.

Dan Williams has little Hayneworth in him IMO, he has the ability to split double teams and that makes a difference.

Asamoah and Pouncey are upgrades to the guys we have. Size with feet.

I want a defensive front 7 that is big strong and quick. If you read my post I make a move for Derrick Johnson. My front 7 would be, Smith, Robinson, Dan Williams, Mario Williams infront of Cushing Ryans and DJ. Your back up DL is made up of Barwin, Oghobaase, Okoya, Cody, Okam, Jamison, and Bulman.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by painekiller

In another thread I showed these off seasons moves.



Haden takes the place of Dunta. You sign him and get him to camp. He will help this team.

Dan Williams has little Hayneworth in him IMO, he has the ability to split double teams and that makes a difference.

Asamoah and Pouncey are upgrades to the guys we have. Size with feet.

I want a defensive front 7 that is big strong and quick. If you read my post I make a move for Derrick Johnson. My front 7 would be, Smith, Robinson, Dan Williams, Mario Williams infront of Cushing Ryans and DJ. Your back up DL is made up of Barwin, Oghobaase, Okoya, Cody, Okam, Jamison, and Bulman.

Oh...I guess it really is that simple to draft 3 great players in a draft.

And I agree with you that we don't need a coaching change if we can draft a high level corner, the next Albert Haynesworth, and two new interior line starters (along with a power back and a DT).

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by barrett

Oh...I guess it really is that simple to draft 3 great players in a draft.

And I agree with you that we don't need a coaching change if we can draft a high level corner, the next Albert Haynesworth, and two new interior line starters (along with a power back and a DT).

In my scenario only one of the OG starts now. They have to push each other. I would expect Pitts to be resigned or a FA OG to be signed.

No matter who we hire or don't hire, we are going to have 2 to 3 more quality players to add to the roster from the draft. Only a total idiot like Matt Millen ends up with garbage after a draft. Or your like the Pats of say 2003, your roster is loaded so deep, no rookie can make the team. We are not that deep. And we do not have Matt Millen drafting our team.

[idymoe]

Originally Posted by painekiller

please check out my post

Bum was talking about Don Shula. Not Bear Bryant.

Very interesting. The page I referenced when I googled "Bum Phillips Quotes" is http://www.coachqte.com/phillips.html . Also, the reference in Wikipedia naming Don Shula was not there, because I read that page also, at the time. Did you add that by any chance?
I did find another page that referenced Shula. Bum could have certainly used the same quote describing different coaches that he admired.
Chronologically, he probably said it about Bryant first, then Shula. I can't say I absolutely remember him saying it about Bryant, but it seems like it. I was absolutely sure he wasn't talking about himself.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by idymoe

Very interesting. The page I referenced when I googled "Bum Phillips Quotes" is http://www.coachqte.com/phillips.html . Also, the reference in Wikipedia naming Don Shula was not there, because I read that page also, at the time. Did you add that by any chance?
I did find another page that referenced Shula. Bum could have certainly used the same quote describing different coaches that he admired.
Chronologically, he probably said it about Bryant first, then Shula. I can't say I absolutely remember him saying it about Bryant, but it seems like it. I was absolutely sure he wasn't talking about himself.

Don't remember him saying that about the Bear, only Shula. It was referring to the fact that Shula went from a run 1st coach to a pass happy coach. Shula was not about a system, he formed his playbook to fit his players.

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by idymoe

The quote was by Bum, but he wasn't talking about himself. He was talking about Bear Bryant. He said, "he could take his'n and beat your'n, or he could take your'n and beat his'n."

By the way, if you don't think we have a way better team than 4 years ago, then I don't know what to say.

He might have said it about Bear Bryant (he was an assistant for him at one point), but the quote came from Bum about Don Shula. He was noting that Shula had won the Super Bowl with a rush-oriented offense in the early 70s and had converted the Dolphins to a pass-happy offense by the late 70s. He said this before Marino and the "Marks Brothers" too.

[HPF Bob]

Rumors out of Dallas are that Jerry Jones wants to hire Shanahan before the rival Redskins do and that the Texans are also interested. That's intriguing in that Shanahan replaced Wade Phillips as head coach in Denver way back when.

However, I think this is disinformation to try to give Shanahan greater contract leverage and probably sources back to his agent. Create competition and it drives up the price. Plus, I think McNair is smart enough to know that if he hires Shanahan, all he is getting is Kubiak with a bigger ego. It won't solve one issue on the field. Shanahan can't help our defense and he also is prone to cutesy plays just like his old OC is.