Official Texans vs. Jaguars Game Thread, 9/28/2009

[mussop]

Originally Posted by sinnister

This one was on the defense. We are in dire need of a playmaking safety.

Safety isnt he big issue. Its the DC. We have enough talent on this team to not be giving up 30 plus points to the likes of Jacksonville. Richard Smith's defense was better than this.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by mussop

Safety isnt he big issue. Its the DC. We have enough talent on this team to not be giving up 30 plus points to the likes of Jacksonville. Richard Smith's defense was better than this.

No its the safety. And though I'd love a playmaker, I'd settle for a guy who can tackle. Or a guy who can cover. I don't even need both. Just one or the other would be fine.

But somehow for the last 3 years we have put strong safeties on the field who not only can't cover, but they make up for it by not hitting or tackling.

Watch Barber on the last MJD TD run from inside the 10. Barber actually runs by MJD without realizing he has the ball. He literally dismisses him while MJD goes by him at walking speed.

At least Wilson can cover. He may not be able to tackle anyone, and he takes bad angles and is slow, but he has a single football skill. He can play centerfield and has the instincts to make a play within his limited range.

Please tell me what positive football characteristic Barber/Ferguson/Busing/etc has. None can tackle. None can hit. None can cover. None can run. None have any instincts. Not one actual football skill in the lot. And the same can be said for Fred Bennett. He may be a worse tackler than Philip Buchanon. Or maybe it is just that he is about as willing to hit as Buchanon was.

We have one guy in the entire secondary that will tackle and that is our 180 lb CB.

When 1 out of 10 running plays gets to the second level, that is not a scheme issue. It is not a LB/DL issue. It is normal for the NFL. But when 3/4 plays that hit the 2nd level go for TDs, that is a problem.

We might as well line up in a 4-4 and make teams pass to beat us though because our secondary is worthless vs the run.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

Please tell me what positive football characteristic Barber/Ferguson/Busing/etc has. None can tackle. None can hit. None can cover. None can run. None have any instincts. Not one actual football skill in the lot. And the same can be said for Fred Bennett. He may be a worse tackler than Philip Buchanon. Or maybe it is just that he is about as willing to hit as Buchanon was.

We have one guy in the entire secondary that will tackle and that is our 180 lb CB.

As you surely know you and I are often at football loggerheads, and that's fine with me. I don't want everyone to agree with all of my points and I appreciate being challenged on what I think and see by thoughtful people.

But you and I are on the same page here. The safeties have always been terrible, and Bennett has no discernible upside.

The Houston Texans are an irrelevant NFL franchise and I am completely sick of it and will not support it any longer.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by barrett

No its the safety. And though I'd love a playmaker, I'd settle for a guy who can tackle. Or a guy who can cover. I don't even need both. Just one or the other would be fine.

But somehow for the last 3 years we have put strong safeties on the field who not only can't cover, but they make up for it by not hitting or tackling.

Watch Barber on the last MJD TD run from inside the 10. Barber actually runs by MJD without realizing he has the ball. He literally dismisses him while MJD goes by him at walking speed.

At least Wilson can cover. He may not be able to tackle anyone, and he takes bad angles and is slow, but he has a single football skill. He can play centerfield and has the instincts to make a play within his limited range.

Please tell me what positive football characteristic Barber/Ferguson/Busing/etc has. None can tackle. None can hit. None can cover. None can run. None have any instincts. Not one actual football skill in the lot. And the same can be said for Fred Bennett. He may be a worse tackler than Philip Buchanon. Or maybe it is just that he is about as willing to hit as Buchanon was.

We have one guy in the entire secondary that will tackle and that is our 180 lb CB.

When 1 out of 10 running plays gets to the second level, that is not a scheme issue. It is not a LB/DL issue. It is normal for the NFL. But when 3/4 plays that hit the 2nd level go for TDs, that is a problem.

We might as well line up in a 4-4 and make teams pass to beat us though because our secondary is worthless vs the run.

I agree they suck but how are these safeties any different than they were last year? We obviously need to upgrade that area but what difference will that make if they line up in the wrong spot? There is no way you can lay the entire suckiness of our defense on the safeties. They are part of the problem but there are bigger issues involved. It starts with coaching. Richard Smith didnt have this problem with pretty much the same secondary. That aught to tell you something right there.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by mussop

I agree they suck but how are these safeties any different than they were last year? We obviously need to upgrade that area but what difference will that make if they line up in the wrong spot? There is no way you can lay the entire suckiness of our defense on the safeties. They are part of the problem but there are bigger issues involved. It starts with coaching. Richard Smith didnt have this problem with pretty much the same secondary. That aught to tell you something right there.

I partially agree with you, but partially disagree.

The reason we didn't get beat like this last year is that Bush is running a scheme that asks the Safeties to be more than warm bodies in the running game. With Smith's defense we basically just conceded small and medium gains in an effort to not give up the big play. Now we play upfield on the DL and make actual stops but then give up big runs as well.

Neither approach is right or wrong, they are right or wrong according to personell. And we are playing a style of defense that our personell does not supprt (mainly our entire secondary minus Dunta cannot tackle or hit). This is where I agree with you. Just look at the teams that play aggressive D and who lines up at safety (Polomalu, Reed, Rhodes). And look at the Eagles D that lost Brian Dawkins and kept blitzing.

You will notice in every thread last year calling for Richard Smith's head, I posted about us playing that way because of personell issues. Then you will notice me screaming at the top of my lungs all offseason for a Safety (if not a 1st then something). And you will notice in all of the preseason threads me saying more aggressive is not necessarily better if you give up big plays.

But the truth is no style or scheme works when your players are bad. That is why I would place the blame in this order.
1) Smith/Kubiak for thinking you can play a winning season with these guys.
2) Our Safeties for being terrible
3) And Frank Bush for running a scheme that cannot possible work with these players.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by mussop

Safety isnt he big issue. Its the DC. We have enough talent on this team to not be giving up 30 plus points to the likes of Jacksonville. Richard Smith's defense was better than this.

Safety is a huge issue. We have a single, decent safety in Wilson, and that is it. Our safety play today was terrible. Actually, that's a dis on the word terrible. Houston Texan safety play should be the phrase used to describe the worst of the worst.

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by sinnister

Safety is a huge issue. We have a single, decent safety in Wilson, and that is it. Our safety play today was terrible. Actually, that's a dis on the word terrible. Houston Texan safety play should be the phrase used to describe the worst of the worst.

Unless there's another 26 in uniform, Wilson sucks. He's "ole'd" so many tackles on the sidelines, it's not funny. And he had that personal foul call as well. Even Busing has caught his disease back there.

As for whether the problem is DC vs DBs, it's both. Bush designed a more aggressive defense which means we'll have more TFLs and more sacls but also more big plays against us because we aren't playing it safe. The problem is that the secondary isn't good enough to play high-risk defense without us getting burned a few times. I actually like the new system better because it beats playing a zone and being picked to death. They just need to find some DBs who can tackle and run all over the field. Right now, we have none.

[TheMatrix31]

That was a painful loss, man.

I told you guys Maurice Drew was going to tear us apart, not like it was going out on any limb or anything.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

As for whether the problem is DC vs DBs, it's both. Bush designed a more aggressive defense which means we'll have more TFLs and more sacls but also more big plays against us because we aren't playing it safe. The problem is that the secondary isn't good enough to play high-risk defense without us getting burned a few times. I actually like the new system better because it beats playing a zone and being picked to death. They just need to find some DBs who can tackle and run all over the field. Right now, we have none.

I don't know which team you're watching, but the team I've been watching for the last 3 weeks has NOT gotten all that many sacks (none yesterday, IIRC), has been giving up big plays at an alarming rate AND has been getting picked to death all over the field regardless of down or distance. Maybe they were getting picked to death last year, but at least they weren't giving up a ton of big plays. What that defense did yesterday against, IMO, one of the worst offenses in the league was sickening. Can't wait for that Colts game...

I was one of the proponents calling for Smith's head, but I have to say at this point, his defense was better than this. I don't think I've ever seen a defense give up so many 3rd-long's in my life. And it's not just the fault of the secondary. Where are the sacks? Where's the pressure? Where are the LB hits? No one is making plays - not even Demeco. This whole defense is fking horrible from the coaching to DL/LB/S.

The season's young and maybe these guys can turn it around, but I think the chances are slim. Oh well, we only have 13 more weeks of this suckitude and then we'll move on with another coaching staff who can maybe get something out of these guys. Why they didn't even take a sniff at hiring Gregg Williams as DC when they had the chance is beyond me. Look what he's done with the Aint's defense who has been notoriously bad. I don't recall them having a defense and secondary filled with of Pro Bowlers...

[TexanJedi]

Originally Posted by popanot

The season's young and maybe these guys can turn it around, but I think the chances are slim. Oh well, we only have 13 more weeks of this suckitude and then we'll move on with another coaching staff who can maybe get something out of these guys. Why they didn't even take a sniff at hiring Gregg Williams as DC when they had the chance is beyond me. Look what he's done with the Aint's defense who has been notoriously bad. I don't recall them having a defense and secondary filled with of Pro Bowlers...

It is somewhat amazing to see what the Saints have done on defense (still early though), or Denver for that matter, and they don't have any more talent than Houston save for a very veteran Darren Sharper at safety (and of course Dawkins in Denver). It just seems that when a move is to be made be it in coaching or hiring or even the draft (not so much as of late) or free agency, the Texans are more likely to make the wrong move, hence their record and history of futility. The draft and personnel selection has gotten better no doubt.

It's too early to say but if this proves to be Kubiak's last stand, the thing that concerns me is the fact that in all likelihood, unless he is sacked too, Rick Smith will be picking a new coach. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't like the thought of that. The frustrating thing is this team has talent, certainly more than we have ever had, but they are missing something, execution, discipline or whatever it is. In the event this season ends in disappointment i could see a new coaching staff (the right one, but who's that?) turning things around very quickly.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by TexanJedi

It is somewhat amazing to see what the Saints have done on defense (still early though), or Denver for that matter, and they don't have any more talent than Houston save for a very veteran Darren Sharper at safety (and of course Dawkins in Denver). It just seems that when a move is to be made be it in coaching or hiring or even the draft (not so much as of late) or free agency, the Texans are more likely to make the wrong move, hence their record and history of futility. The draft and personnel selection has gotten better no doubt.

It's too early to say but if this proves to be Kubiak's last stand, the thing that concerns me is the fact that in all likelihood, unless he is sacked too, Rick Smith will be picking a new coach. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't like the thought of that. The frustrating thing is this team has talent, certainly more than we have ever had, but they are missing something, execution, discipline or whatever it is. In the event this season ends in disappointment i could see a new coaching staff (the right one, but who's that?) turning things around very quickly.

Denver has played bad offensive teams so far. I'll wait to see with them. New Orleans is simply playing with a lead.

Schaub has started slow in all 3 games. If we could get a fast start and play with a lead our issues against the run would not look so big even though we would have solved nothing.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by barrett

Schaub has started slow in all 3 games. If we could get a fast start and play with a lead our issues against the run would not look so big even though we would have solved nothing.

To play with the lead a few things must happen.

1. We get the ball first
2. We score
3. The defense actually stops the team on their first series

You are asking a lot..........

[popanot]

Originally Posted by barrett

Denver has played bad offensive teams so far. I'll wait to see with them.

It's not like we've been playing the offensive juggernauts of the league. I shudder at the thought of these guys going up against the Cardinals, Bengals, 49ers and Colts over the next few weeks. Hell, with the way they're playing it wouldn't shock me to see the Raiders running game roll them over and JaMarcus Russell having career day. Same with Buffalo...

Every time they got the lead yesterday to the defense just rolled into the fetal position and gave it right up.