What's in the Texans booth?

[Joshua]

The Moats' fumble yesterday is not the first time the Texans have lollygagged after a potentially reviewable play. I'm curious what the Texans have in their booth. Do they have a TV with the same feed as the rest of us? Anyone know?

[popanot]

I don't know, but you can pretty much count on at least one bonehead coaching gaff and one bonehead Schaub pass per game. It's to be expected.

[nunusguy]

Schaubs pass was not nearly as "boneheaded" as that wounded-duck the Colts thru up towards the sidelines which became Pollards second interception. That pass bordered on wierd ?

[HPF Bob]

To answer the original question, I don't know if there are tv monitors for the coaches upstairs and I would guess the only requirement is that both staffs have to have access to the same information so, IOW, they both have monitors or neither do. Where and how convenient probably varies from stadium to stadium.

I do recall that the Redskins actually hired a "replay coach" whose one and only job was to watch the monitors and advise Joe Gibbs whether he should throw a challenge flag or not. In great comic fashion, the "replay coach" was chronically wrong and I can't remember if he even lasted the whole season.

[WMH]

Schaub said this morning that the staff told him thru his headset to slow down & run the clock down to the two minute warning. He later said that from the Texan's coaches view point, they saw that the Indy defender was down, out of bounds, which they interpet that they are both out of bounds. Either way, we need to hang on to the damn ball, as it should not have come to that.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by WMH

Schaub said this morning that the staff told him thru his headset to slow down & run the clock down to the two minute warning. He later said that from the Texan's coaches view point, they saw that the Indy defender was down, out of bounds, which they interpet that they are both out of bounds. Either way, we need to hang on to the damn ball, as it should not have come to that.

So it sounds like the answer is "yes, we did see the replay, but we didn't know the rules well enough to know this was a possible fumble." Outstanding.

Further, we've all seen plays get overturned on review that left us scratching our heads. Even if you think you're right, why let it get to that?

[Arky]

re: Moats fumble, I don't think anybody at the time thought it was a fumble. Not until the replays started showing did things start getting iffy....

I haven't rewatched the game, yet (and might not rewatch it), but it seemed to me, Moats had the ball, butt hit the ground, and a few hundredths of a second later, the ball came flying out. Replay showed he still had possession albeit precarious possession with the ball trapped on his hip. The officials ruled he landed on top of the defensive player and therefore was not down when the ball came flying out.

I believe the coaches in the booth get at least the network feed possibly more. Each stadium is responsible for providing the visiting coaches with a decent replays/monitors although I've heard rumors some home teams provide their coaches a little more...

FWIW, the Texans have been better this year in overturning a few (a couple?) replays this year and Kubes was asked why. He responded that having Bruce Mathews up in the booth was one of the reasons....

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Arky

re: Moats fumble, I don't think anybody at the time thought it was a fumble. Not until the replays started showing did things start getting iffy....

Maybe you didn't, but quite a few people (including myself) did where I was. They showed a replay immediately after the play. I was at Nick's Place and several of us immediately started saying that it was possibly a fumble and the Texans need to run a play before the Colts decide to challenge it. Once the Texans got up to the line of scrimmage, we were screaming for them to snap it. When Schaub walked away to allow the clock to run down to the 2 minute warning, several of us then predicted that the Colts would challenge after being given the 2 minute warning to watch more replays. That's what infuriates me. This wasn't an after-the-fact conclusion. Half of Nick's Place saw the potential for a fumble in real time; i.e., before the Texans even walked up to the line of scrimmage for the next play. The Texans staff should have at least seen the possibility as well. Bottom line is that on close plays, you can't give the other side that much time to ponder what to do.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Maybe you didn't, but quite a few people (including myself) did where I was. They showed a replay immediately after the play. I was at Nick's Place and several of us immediately started saying that it was possibly a fumble and the Texans need to run a play before the Colts decide to challenge it. Once the Texans got up to the line of scrimmage, we were screaming for them to snap it. When Schaub walked away to allow the clock to run down to the 2 minute warning, several of us then predicted that the Colts would challenge after being given the 2 minute warning to watch more replays. That's what infuriates me. This wasn't an after-the-fact conclusion. Half of Nick's Place saw the potential for a fumble in real time; i.e., before the Texans even walked up to the line of scrimmage for the next play. The Texans staff should have at least seen the possibility as well. Bottom line is that on close plays, you can't give the other side that much time to ponder what to do.

It was reported the coaches thought Moats was out of bounds. Obviously, Kubiak and the sideline guys don't have cameras/monitors. Right or wrong, the coaches in the booth didn't think it was a fumble either. The ruling at the time on the field was "no fumble". They were in a conundrum in that they didn't want to leave Peyton more time than they had to if they scored. Hence, letting the clock run down to the 2 minute warning. Given the Texans troubles in the red zone, they took the 2 minute timeout to discuss. In hindsight, they should have run a play but I don't think it was criminal that they didn't.... JMO....

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Arky

re: Moats fumble, I don't think anybody at the time thought it was a fumble. Not until the replays started showing did things start getting iffy....

Not trying to jump you but I was watching the game over a freaking sling box feed and I was immediately concerned that he'd fumbled. It was way too close for the team to be nonchalanting around.

Like everyone else I don't know whether the coaches in the box have access to a video feed or not. I'll try to look on the 23rd in Reliant, but from my vantage point it's almost impossible to tell. For example, I know perfectly well that the radio guys have video but I can't see their monitors from where I sit.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by chuck

Not trying to jump you but I was watching the game over a freaking sling box feed and I was immediately concerned that he'd fumbled. It was way too close for the team to be nonchalanting around.

Well, that's just the whole crux of it right there. You and many others felt they needed to rush a play - the coaches thought there was nothing wrong and saw no need to.

Fans 1, Coaches 0. Hindsight is wonderful.

[Arky]

On another note, Kubiak mentioned yesterday on his radio show that they submitted a case to the league regarding this play. I would not be surprised if this play shows up on the NFLN show with Mike Pereira later this week...

[Arky]

Here, from the Chron:

Fumbled call
The Texans thought the officials on the field made the correct call when they ruled running back Ryan Moats was out of bounds when he lost the ball with 2:30 left in the first half of Sunday's 20-17 loss to the Colts.

The Texans displayed a picture Monday that showed safety Antoine Bethea was out of bounds with Moats on top of him and the ball coming out. If Bethea was out of bounds, everything that happened afterward shouldn't have been considered.

Even though the officials blew their whistles that the play was over, referee Jeff Triplette changed the call after reviewing it. He ruled the ball came out when Moats was on top of Bethea and that Bethea was in bounds.

Triplette said cornerback Jerraud Powers had picked up the ball on the goal line, but because he had been out of bounds and had one foot out of bounds when he picked up the ball, it was ruled a fumble out of the end zone and a Colts touchback.

When the officials blew their whistles, the play should have been dead, and Powers' picking up the ball would have been moot.

“I haven't talked to anybody yet,” coach Gary Kubiak said about conferring with the NFL office. “We filed our report, and then we'll get a response back.”

Silence not golden
After Ryan Moats was ruled down at the Colts' 1, the Texans lined up to run the next play, but Gary Kubiak told Matt Schaub to let the clock run until the two-minute warning. Kubiak expected to score, and he didn't want Colts quarterback Peyton Manning to get the ball back with enough time to score.

None of his coaches in the booth told Kubiak to run a play before Indianapolis could challenge the fumble. During the two-minute break, the Colts watched replays, and coach Jim Caldwell challenged that it was a fumble, and the play was overturned.

“You've got six guys in the booth,” Kubiak said. “Headset-wise, you're hooked into just certain people, but I want them all to look. I want to hear everybody's opinion — the guys on the field, the guys in the booth. But ultimately it's my decision, so I've got to listen and go from there.”

[popanot]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Schaubs pass was not nearly as "boneheaded" as that wounded-duck the Colts thru up towards the sidelines which became Pollards second interception. That pass bordered on wierd ?

The first or second drive of the game where he threw into triple coverage for an INT was pretty boneheaded, IMO.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by Arky

Well, that's just the whole crux of it right there. You and many others felt they needed to rush a play - the coaches thought there was nothing wrong and saw no need to.

Fans 1, Coaches 0. Hindsight is wonderful.

If there's any doubt, which judging by Kubiak's presser comments "we knew Moats fumbled, but assumed he was out of bounds" there was, you still get up to the line quickly and a run a play. Most teams would have done that (I bet the Colts would have) instead of lolly-gagging around or worrying about leaving Peyton too much time. Sure hindsight is wonderful, but someone should have been smart enough to recognize the possibility of a fumble there (Moats, Schaub, the coaches on the field or booth...) and taken appropriate measures to ensure we kept possession of the ball. That one play might have lost us the game.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by popanot

If there's any doubt, which judging by Kubiak's presser comments "we knew Moats fumbled, but assumed he was out of bounds" there was, you still get up to the line quickly and a run a play. Most teams would have done that (I bet the Colts would have) instead of lolly-gagging around or worrying about leaving Peyton too much time. Sure hindsight is wonderful, but someone should have been smart enough to recognize the possibility of a fumble there (Moats, Schaub, the coaches on the field or booth...) and taken appropriate measures to ensure we kept possession of the ball. That one play might have lost us the game.

Agreed. You have the ball on the 2 freakin' yard line. You cannot leave a questionable call up to the refs if you have the ability to control your own destiny. And I agree that Manning would have definitely ran a play, as I've seen him do it numerous times after close calls. That's what good teams do. Winning and losing in the NFL is regularly decided by these sorts of things and we need to get better at getting them right.

I mean, what this boils down to was we were willing to trade potentially turning the ball over on the 2 yardline so we could run 5 extra seconds off the clock. That's a terrible tradeoff.

[cadams]

man, i don't know how anyone can defend what the texans' coaches did on this one. if there is even a 1% chance it could be overturned on a challenge you do everything you can to avoid that. especially when you are down 13 to the colts IN indy. not to mention that was the first drive they actually moced the ball. the only people who didn't think that they should snap the ball before the 2 minute warning was the texans sidelines . . .or i should say the coaches. dunta said in an interview that there were several players on the texans' sideline yelling at them to snap the ball as well because it was too close to chance

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by popanot

If there's any doubt, which judging by Kubiak's presser comments "we knew Moats fumbled, but assumed he was out of bounds" there was, you still get up to the line quickly and a run a play. Most teams would have done that (I bet the Colts would have) instead of lolly-gagging around or worrying about leaving Peyton too much time. Sure hindsight is wonderful, but someone should have been smart enough to recognize the possibility of a fumble there (Moats, Schaub, the coaches on the field or booth...) and taken appropriate measures to ensure we kept possession of the ball. That one play might have lost us the game.

Kubiak said "we knew Moats fumbled, but assumed he was out of bounds", basically tells the story: takin along with what I "assume" was a report from his people upstairs who had to see what we all saw on the TV replay should have been sufficient enough for him to quickly instruct Schaub to run a play, but he and his-staff apparently just wern't nimble enough to make that happen.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by popanot

If there's any doubt, which judging by Kubiak's presser comments "we knew Moats fumbled, but assumed he was out of bounds" there was, you still get up to the line quickly and a run a play. Most teams would have done that (I bet the Colts would have) instead of lolly-gagging around or worrying about leaving Peyton too much time.

I don't think that was the actual quote but yeah, that's what Kubiak meant. It doesn't help when the refs initially rule "no fumble". (Again, watching it real time, I didn't think it was a fumble or even that close. Not till the replays started coming did I "see" it). Any replay would have to have conclusive proof to overturn it. And according to the refs, there was conclusive proof.

I just don't see it as the boneheaded play some of you do. IMO, it was just a little perfect storm of bad fortune....

Sure hindsight is wonderful, but someone should have been smart enough to recognize the possibility of a fumble there (Moats, Schaub, the coaches on the field or booth...) and taken appropriate measures to ensure we kept possession of the ball. That one play might have lost us the game.

Yeah, or it could have been the six 1st downs the Texans gave Indy via penalty. Or the missed K Brown FG. Or the Schaub INT's.... The Texans didn't lose the game on one play.

The deal is, what can you do about it now? If you're the Texans, you learn from it and move on...

[Nconroe]

what I heard Coach Kubiak also clarify on 610 Monday evening, is they felt like the safety who Moats was on top of, touched the ball while he was out of bounds, ie. the ball was touched out of bounds and that established the fumble out of bounds.

If they are correct on the out of bounds touch, then it is defensible and refs blew it. I guess film is sent to league for review.

And, that would be consistent with the call on the field at the time, which was overturned.

Other than that, hope it's a good learning experinece for all in the future.

And, we need to stop turning over the ball, hard to win if you loose the turnover battle.