Jacques Reeves = Texans' Best DB in 2008. Discuss.

[cadams]

Originally Posted by barrett

We need to play young guys, but I think we only play them at the expense of guys who will likely not be here next year. Reeves will probably be starting for us next year, I don't think you bench him for Molden. And I am not sure where you come up with the 2 good games comment. He's been our best DB all season (I know faint praise, but still).

Where I want to see young guys is Adibi at LB (like we have seen the last two weeks. Beyond him I don't think we have any young guys I really want to see. If molden can't crack the 3 deep at CB on this roster what do we really need to see.

I don't care if he has been out "best" corner this year. Best out of a pile of crap isn't saying much. Reeves may be back next year, but he isn't the long term solution, and unless a light turns on he won't be here after next season. Molden was drafted as a long term contributer, and he is a rookie, we won't know what they have in him until he gets real playing time. Reeves on the other hand, is an "established" veteran. You know what you have in him, they need to forget the money they have in him and play him less in order to get the other guys more reps.

If he can't crack the top 3? How do you know there isn't some other reason driving that? Like . . .I don't know . . .a 25 million dollar contract? Kubiak has acknowledged in the past that he made mistakes not playing younger guys at the end of the year, how do you know he won't say the same thing this offseason about Molden?

[barrett]

Originally Posted by cadams

I don't care if he has been out "best" corner this year. Best out of a pile of crap isn't saying much. Reeves may be back next year, but he isn't the long term solution, and unless a light turns on he won't be here after next season. Molden was drafted as a long term contributer, and he is a rookie, we won't know what they have in him until he gets real playing time. Reeves on the other hand, is an "established" veteran. You know what you have in him, they need to forget the money they have in him and play him less in order to get the other guys more reps.

If he can't crack the top 3? How do you know there isn't some other reason driving that? Like . . .I don't know . . .a 25 million dollar contract? Kubiak has acknowledged in the past that he made mistakes not playing younger guys at the end of the year, how do you know he won't say the same thing this offseason about Molden?

I don't understand the logic of benching the guy who has performed on the field. Why not bench Fred Bennet (who has played terrible), or Dunta Robinson (who is improving physically but still can't cover anyone yet). Reeves has CLEARLY been our best CB this year and it's not even close. As far as I'm concerned, play the best players. Now, if they're equal, go with the younger guy. But you don't just play young guys for the sake of playing young guys.

If you're so concerned about everyone getting in the game then go watch youth soccer. I prefer watching the best guy get the spot.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

Reeves has CLEARLY been our best CB this year and it's not even close.

I don't understand why you doggedly cling to this. No one else thinks this, not least the opposing team's OCs and QBs who test Reeves at least twice for each throw to the other sideline.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by chuck

I don't understand why you doggedly cling to this. No one else thinks this, not least the opposing team's OCs and QBs who test Reeves at least twice for each throw to the other sideline.

Really? Nobody else thinks this? Not the coaching staff who watches these guys in film and spends everyday with them in practice? Seems that they have benched Bennett even in favor of Faggins (forget Molden). Reeves is the only guy they have started all season so they clearly agree.

As for who gets targeted more by opposing defenses, I don't know. Give us a link with your 2-to-1 numbers. The problem is you're making it up. Either way even if he is targeted more he has 13 passes defended (9th in NFL) and 3 interceptions. Both of those numbers are better than the rest of our corners COMBINED. And before you claim its because he is thrown at the most, go take the time to see the rest of the CBs atop that passes defended list with him.

Either way my point is why would we pull Reeves when about 8 out of the other 10 starters on our terrible defense have played worse than him. People let Reeves' bad contract cloud their view of him as a player. My point is, they have all been paid already, so lets play the guy who is performing the best right now. If in the offseason someone wants to argue we should look to upgrade or replace at CB I will say I agree. But right now, regardless of value, or the bang for the buck, Jaque Reeves is our best corner and there is no reason to bench him.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by barrett

Really? Nobody else thinks this? Not the coaching staff who watches these guys in film and spends everyday with them in practice? Seems that they have benched Bennett even in favor of Faggins (forget Molden). Reeves is the only guy they have started all season so they clearly agree.

You really think they are going to not start a guy they just signed to a big contract? This coaching staff is slow to play young players. They already have a track record of it. They kept Green instead of a younger more reliable RB. I bet he would still be starting if he could get on the field. If Kubiack comes with that same line as last year "I should of gotten im some more playing time sooner" I'll be real dissapointed in him. In fact Im starting to fall of the Kubiak bandwagon. My grip is gettint looser ans looser.

As far as other teams targeting Reeves more, just listen to the commentary during the games. Half the time the announcers are the ones making that assumption so there has to be something to it.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by chuck

I don't understand why you doggedly cling to this. No one else thinks this, not least the opposing team's OCs and QBs who test Reeves at least twice for each throw to the other sideline.

I do.........

[cadams]

Originally Posted by barrett

If you're so concerned about everyone getting in the game then go watch youth soccer. I prefer watching the best guy get the spot.

This is a stupid comment. We are playing for next year at this point. I don't want them to give up on the season, but this season is lost, and I want them doing the things now that will give them the best chance of being a better team next year. I have been shelling out my money every year for season tickets and I am ready to have a return on my investment. At some point you have to do what is best for the future. It is just like in college, if your season is lost, then you start playing younger players ahead of seniors who are leaving. There is the chance that you lose a game because of it, but that isn't guarenteed, and the real game experience the guys get is invaluable for their progression.

Oh, and by the way, Bennett has been benched, and a 80% Dunta is better than a 100% Reeves any day of the week.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by chuck

I don't understand why you doggedly cling to this. No one else thinks this, not least the opposing team's OCs and QBs who test Reeves at least twice for each throw to the other sideline.

mod note - split this thread from the one about Dunta and Adibi starting vs. Browns (man, that's two already split from there, and I think there may even be a third...).

Just to add to the convo, McClain chimed in with statistical info that suggests Reeves hasn't totally sucked. Not sure if having McClain and DB stats on your side really helps here or not, but here you go:

Looking at statistics through 10 games, Reeves had been thrown at 55 times (ranking 33rd). He had allowed 29 completions (44th). He’d given up 468 yards (25th). He has surrendered two TDs (61st). ...

In other words, there are a lot of big-time corners giving up more catches, yards and touchdowns than Reeves.

Anyway, I ran some of these numbers by Smith, who pointed out how hard Reeves has worked, how much he’s improved and how much better they expect him to be next season. ...

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6132948.html

[cadams]

Originally Posted by barrett

Really? Nobody else thinks this? Not the coaching staff who watches these guys in film and spends everyday with them in practice?

Yeah, they started Dayne (who took out our Spencer), Greenwood (over adibi all year, and the only reason Adibi is starting now is because Greenwood got hurt, and it is clear the team is better with Adibi starting), Earl and Brown at safety until they got hurt (and the tandm we have now is clearly better). I could continue, but I will stop here.

And for the record, I am not a Kubiak hater, I think he is a hell of an offensive coach, I just think he falls in love with some players for certain reasons (faggins because he trys hard on every play and has a good attitude), and tends to keep giving them chances for too long. Reeves may end up being a decent cb for this team, but if he does, I think it will be at the nickle position.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by Keith

Just to add to the convo, McClain chimed in with statistical info that suggests Reeves hasn't totally sucked. Not sure if having McClain and DB stats on your side really helps here or not, but here you go:



http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6132948.html

Once I saw that article I actually threw up a little at the fact that I sort of agree with McClain. Reeves hasn't been great, good, or even decent. He still has been better than our other corners this season.

I don't think teams really target one of our targets more than the other...I think they just target our secondary. Keep Mario off your QB, and good things happen.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by papabear

Once I saw that article I actually threw up a little at the fact that I sort of agree with McClain. Reeves hasn't been great, good, or even decent. He still has been better than our other corners this season.

I don't think teams really target one of our targets more than the other...I think they just target our secondary. Keep Mario off your QB, and good things happen.

This.

Find where I said Reeves is good. I haven't just that this season he has outplayed the rest. If someone wants Molden on the field they should be calling for Fred Bennett's head.

As for Kubiak not playing young guys, this is another message board invention. Adibi was hurt the whole first part of the year and as soon as he was practicing he was playing. Same with Bennett last year. He got healthy and started EARNING playing time. That is how it should be.

[mussop]

Originally Posted by barrett

This.

Find where I said Reeves is good. I haven't just that this season he has outplayed the rest. If someone wants Molden on the field they should be calling for Fred Bennett's head.

As for Kubiak not playing young guys, this is another message board invention. Adibi was hurt the whole first part of the year and as soon as he was practicing he was playing. Same with Bennett last year. He got healthy and started EARNING playing time. That is how it should be.

This is all a mute point anyway. No matter who we have playing in the secondary they are going to get picked apart, until we get some sort of consistant pressure on the QB. Seeing how our D linemen are tought to READ AND REACT and we seldom use blitzes, that might be awhile. Like until we get a new DC or this one grows some balls and takes some chances and plays his players to their strength.

[coloradodude]

Barrett, you wrote this...

"Either way even if he is targeted more he has 13 passes defended (9th in NFL) and 3 interceptions."


And if you know the answer to my question, then please answer it. How many receivers have got the first down when he was covering them?

Reeves will be playing in Canada within 2 years.


Edit: I just read the rest of the thread and found out what it was about. Is Reeves better than our other corners? Who cares? Our secondary (minus Dunta) sucks! And I'm not impressed with our D-line nor our LB's play.

The question I have is who's the worst starting defensive player overall?

[barrett]

Originally Posted by coloradodude

Barrett, you wrote this...

"Either way even if he is targeted more he has 13 passes defended (9th in NFL) and 3 interceptions."


And if you know the answer to my question, then please answer it. How many receivers have got the first down when he was covering them?

Reeves will be playing in Canada within 2 years.


Edit: I just read the rest of the thread and found out what it was about. Is Reeves better than our other corners? Who cares? Our secondary (minus Dunta) sucks! And I'm not impressed with our D-line nor our LB's play.

The question I have is who's the worst starting defensive player overall?

CD,
It took you going back to read it again, but you hit my thoughts perfect. Our Defense sucks and the problem is not Reeves. He is replacable, upgradable, and generally mediocre, but on this defense that is not bad. That was the only point I ever tried to make. That the finger pointing and scape goating belonged on plenty of guys before him.

I won't answer your question directly but I'll tell you the blame I'd asess for our defense.
1. Gary Kubiak (bad hire, too much loyalty, not enough involvement on D...all of them equal asleep at the wheel and make him ultimately responsible even though I am a big fan of his).
2. Richard smith
3. Amobi Okoye (started all season but has impacted one game I can remember)
4. Fred Bennett (toasted all season)
5. Anthony Weaver (sad when your 290 lb DE who is supposed to play the run makes his biggest contribution in pass coverage).
6. Greenwood (terrible two years ago, ok last year, terrible again this year)
7. Harrison/Brown/earl/etc... (clearly the worst spot on the team to me, but I don't blame them since I don't think they have underachieved. Usually a SS can hit if they are bad in coverage. These guys can't cover anyone and they can't hit anyone. The recuring view of our SS is of one of them pulling on a guy's ankles 12 yards down field)
8. Travis Johnson (warm body who plays mediocre)
9. Reeves (made a few plays and gave up a few more)
10. Demeco Ryans (played well in week 1 and disappeared until two games ago. Injuries mean I understand it, but he was still on the field not making many plays).
11. Mario (disappears too often but makes more plays than the rest combined)
12. Diles/bentley (solid play at a position that calls for solid play).
13. Eugene Wilson (first safety in Texans history to look at the QB after the ball is snapped)
14. Buhlman/cochran (two overachievers who have played better than expected)

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

I won't answer your question directly but I'll tell you the blame I'd asess for our defense.

This is a pretty solid list.

[coloradodude]

You know what would really help out our D line would be to pick up a veteran DE in the offseason. I mean a real vocal leader that can contribute on the other side of Mario.

I realize we're not close to where I want but if you're gonna spend money, let's get some value.

[Mike]

I am not an apologist for Reeves, but he has played better as the season progressed. His pick last night was fantastic, nice read and break on the ball. Overall, the corners have been playing better, I do not think it is by chance once #23 was back and they started playing more press coverage and not giving up the easy completions. Reeves also appears to be locating the ball better than he was earlier in the year. He still has a way to go, but he is playing at a competent level.

The front 7 have also been playing better and Wilson and Ferguson are the best safty combo that we have seen.

[barrett]

Dunta coming back has been a plus, but the linebackers have been the key in my opinion. Demeco got healthy and is back to making plays all over the field, and adibi got healthy and on the field. We now have speed at LB and as a result we have blitzed far more effectively. I think this (along with eugene wilson) is why the CBs have looked better. They are still a below average group of corners, but you can get away with that if you're athletic enough at other positions to apply pressure to an offense.

Just look at tampa bay, they are one of the best defenses in the NFL and they start philip buchanon at CB. But they pressure the QB and that makes all the difference.

[Nconroe]

I think it is all of the above. The players are maturing on defense, so overall line play and all of defense improves, confidence in each other. Coaches have appaeared to allow tighter coverage and blitzing more the past couple of games which seems to be working. And not just statistically, but from what I observe, Jacque Reeves himself is getting much better at anticipating the ball and his tackling the past two weeks.