Would You Give A 3rd Rounder For Jason Taylor?

[Texan from KC]

Originally Posted by KJ3

no

eric winston, charles spencer, steve slaton, antwaun molden, jacoby jones. did i miss any of them? kubiak is TOO good with his 3rd round picks.

I see one starter, one guy who played two games (although I am not arguing about what could have been), one guy who we still know little about after a rookie campaign, and two guys who haven't even signed their rookie contracts yet. There could be 5 future Pro-Bowlers there, or there could be 4 guys who are off the team in 2-3 years just like Taylor would be.

Kubes and Smith are doing a tremendous job of finding talent through both the draft and FA, but let's not go overboard giving guys credit who haven't done anything yet.

As far as the trade goes, I think I'd do the 3rd rounder for Taylor, and I'd definitely do the 4th rounder. Not just for the talent, but for the presence he'd bring. The guys who are the core of our defense are all very young - Dunta's the veteran of the group, and he's only played 4 years. Taylor could help even after he's gone by leaving a legacy. Plus, after being dissed by the Fins, he ought to feel he's got something to prove at his next (and likely final) stop.

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by Texan from KC

I see one starter, one guy who played two games (although I am not arguing about what could have been), one guy who we still know little about after a rookie campaign, and two guys who haven't even signed their rookie contracts yet. There could be 5 future Pro-Bowlers there, or there could be 4 guys who are off the team in 2-3 years just like Taylor would be.

Kubes and Smith are doing a tremendous job of finding talent through both the draft and FA, but let's not go overboard giving guys credit who haven't done anything yet.

well, you're going overboard with your reply homie. i said they were good 3rd round draft picks, not all-star future hall-of-famers. big difference. the biggest difference though, is that kubiak makes good use of his 3rd round picks. at least his guys have potential to be all-stars, maybe a HOFer comes out of it but i'm not betting on it. look at, for an easy example, casserly's 3rd round selections. fred weary, he's alright. charles hill, who? seth wand, sucked! dave ragone, worse than picking carr the year before! vernand morency, really? let's not forget the sweeping bust that took, among other things, a 3rd rounder to get babin.

the point is, kubiak's selections and coaching make a 3rd round worth much more than the end of jason taylor's career.

[Texan from KC]

Originally Posted by KJ3

the point is, kubiak's selections and coaching make a 3rd round worth much more than the end of jason taylor's career.

I'm not arguing about the astuteness of the current Texans brain-trust. In fact, you could turn that around and point out that as good as I (actually it should be we) think are last three drafts were (and I think the '06 draft is borderline historic), in two of those drafts we didn't have a 2nd round pick. Still good drafts in all cases. If they were good with no 2nd round pick, I don't think a '09 draft without a 3rd rounder would be a bad thing at all if we can replace that 3rd rounder with a former DPoY who still has something left in the tank.

Let's say that Kubes is here for another 10 years (maybe realistic, maybe not). Given the sheer amount of 3rd round picks he's going to be making over that time, there will be some picks that don't turn out. With Taylor, you've got a pretty good idea of what you're getting, and it aint bad.

As much as Taylor would bring on the field, I think he would add locker room intangibles that could go on well after his retirement. I've heard (and believe) the comment that going from 8-8 to 10-6 is far more difficult than going from 6-10 to 8-8. I think Taylor gives us a better chance of making that jump this year, and I think that's worth alot (up to and including a 3rd round pick).

[HPF Bob]

Imagine if we could have shanghaied a third for Sage Rosenfels, this decision would be easier. (No, the Dolphins probably wouldn't do a Sage-for-Taylor trade, in part because the Fins now have two high picks spent on QBs).

[papabear]

I can see both sides to this debate, but the more I think about it the more I think the phins screwed up by not working a little harder to get something done by draft day.

[Texan from KC]

Originally Posted by papabear

I can see both sides to this debate, but the more I think about it the more I think the phins screwed up by not working a little harder to get something done by draft day.

QFT

Imagine that - The Big Tuna making a mistake.

[edo783]

Originally Posted by Texan from KC

QFT

Imagine that - The Big Tuna making a mistake.

Tuna probably didn't believe it wouldn't workout and that he could "Manhandle" Jason. Jason sees himself out of football either now or in the very near future and didn't give a rip what Tuna wanted or thought.

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by Texan from KC

I'm not arguing about the astuteness of the current Texans brain-trust. In fact, you could turn that around and point out that as good as I (actually it should be we) think are last three drafts were (and I think the '06 draft is borderline historic), in two of those drafts we didn't have a 2nd round pick. Still good drafts in all cases. If they were good with no 2nd round pick, I don't think a '09 draft without a 3rd rounder would be a bad thing at all if we can replace that 3rd rounder with a former DPoY who still has something left in the tank.

Let's say that Kubes is here for another 10 years (maybe realistic, maybe not). Given the sheer amount of 3rd round picks he's going to be making over that time, there will be some picks that don't turn out. With Taylor, you've got a pretty good idea of what you're getting, and it aint bad.

As much as Taylor would bring on the field, I think he would add locker room intangibles that could go on well after his retirement. I've heard (and believe) the comment that going from 8-8 to 10-6 is far more difficult than going from 6-10 to 8-8. I think Taylor gives us a better chance of making that jump this year, and I think that's worth alot (up to and including a 3rd round pick).

i just smilied my responses to reading haha...easy, quick, and above all no explaining!!!

nah, i'm not belichick, i'll talk.

i don't buy the "kubiak will have plenty of 3rd rounds in his tenure" or the "well we didn't have a 2nd and it was fine" bits. neither is a reason to give up a 3rd for a 33 year old, 11 year vet who has one foot out the door to his hollywood interests but may come back to play for a SUPER BOWL CONTENDER being that he is the "superstar vet looking for one last chance on a team that is one player away" type. besides, not having a 2nd round the last two years has been brutality on wheels -and i'm just a fan- imagine these guys straining over it for months and months.

probably not the hell it used to be, but he would bring some hellraising defense.

the locker-room leadership thing has always been a mystery to me. some people think it's important while others not so much. i think it's important, but i also believe it has more to do with who is setting the tone for the locker room. maybe it is the players, but i look at how this team is turning around and i say it's kubiak. but nobody really knows so...whatev.

i see the good in taylor man, i really do. great guy, consumate professional, all-pro player, hellraiser, emotional leader but i look at what is being given up and i just think it's too much to get him. not that any of this matters, because i don't think parcells will let him go anywhere.

[Texan from KC]

Originally Posted by KJ3

i just smilied my responses to reading haha...easy, quick, and above all no explaining!!!

nah, i'm not belichick, i'll talk.

i don't buy the "kubiak will have plenty of 3rd rounds in his tenure" or the "well we didn't have a 2nd and it was fine" bits. neither is a reason to give up a 3rd for a 33 year old, 11 year vet who has one foot out the door to his hollywood interests but may come back to play for a SUPER BOWL CONTENDER being that he is the "superstar vet looking for one last chance on a team that is one player away" type. besides, not having a 2nd round the last two years has been brutality on wheels -and i'm just a fan- imagine these guys straining over it for months and months.

probably not the hell it used to be, but he would bring some hellraising defense.

the locker-room leadership thing has always been a mystery to me. some people think it's important while others not so much. i think it's important, but i also believe it has more to do with who is setting the tone for the locker room. maybe it is the players, but i look at how this team is turning around and i say it's kubiak. but nobody really knows so...whatev.

i see the good in taylor man, i really do. great guy, consumate professional, all-pro player, hellraiser, emotional leader but i look at what is being given up and i just think it's too much to get him. not that any of this matters, because i don't think parcells will let him go anywhere.

Sounds like we basically have a difference of opinion on how well and how long JT's going to play. I think he's got at least a couple of years of high-level playing (with a change of scenery anyway). I think there's still a small chance of him being back with the Dolphins, but I think he'll be a man on a mission if he's traded or cut.

And trust me, in two/three years if we can look at Kubiak's list of 3rd round picks and find as few "busts" as you clearly believe we will, I'll be happier than you could know.

[HPF Bob]

An even more fun idea would be a trade for Taylor *and* Ricky Williams. I don't know what the cap ramifications would be (probably sucks worse for the Dolphins) but the Texans would be getting two former All-Pros on the cheap that could be spectacular with a change of scenery.

I'm still talking about just a third-rounder here but Tuna might like the idea of unloading two albatrosses who I think still have something left to prove. And isn't rush end and RB two positions we were thinking were weaknesses before the draft?

Obviously, I'd want to know what the contract situations would be like but it is something to ponder about. Of course, maybe we should wait for June 2nd to see if they might get cut first.

[NBT]

There ya go Bob, talking like a teasip Texan again. No, No & heck no! There will be other solutions to the DE problem before the season starts, and Ricky Williams.......you've really gotta be kidding.

[RunninRaven]

I would absolutely do a 3rd for Taylor. Quick turnarounds are commonplace in the NFL, and this team was already average to begin with. Adding a defensive pass rusher like Taylor could immediately vault our defense into elite territory. If our offensive weapons stay healthy, that would be enough to make us contenders, I feel. As others have mentioned, putting more pressure on the QB, as Taylor would do, opens things up more for Mario, who is already a handful, and will make things easier on our secondary, which is our biggest weakness on defense. I doubt that it happens, but I think it would be worth it to try.

[sescoyote]

Taylor seems to always be in great shape, so I really wouldn't have a problem with him at all. He had 11 sacks last year at age 33. If he can stay on as long as Strahan can then that would not be a bad pickup at all. Strahan is 36 now and still racked up 9 sacks. Would a rookie 3rd rounder produce like he would for the next couple of years? Get Taylor this year, give him a 2 year contract, draft his replacement next year.

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by Texan from KC

Sounds like we basically have a difference of opinion on how well and how long JT's going to play. I think he's got at least a couple of years of high-level playing (with a change of scenery anyway). I think there's still a small chance of him being back with the Dolphins, but I think he'll be a 33 year old man on an 11 year+ mission if he's traded or cut.

And trust me, in two/three years if we can look at Kubiak's list of 3rd round picks and find as few "busts" as you clearly believe we will, I'll be happier than you could know.

i guess we do. i mean i don't think either one of us expects more than two years out of taylor. but will he still be around by the time the team kubiak is putting together (through the draft ) competes for a ring or will he be retired and dancing?

kubiak brings more to the texans from a 3rd round pick than jason taylor ever could.