Texans to the Pro Bowl

[barrett]

I would say vonta leach is our 3rd most deserving. He has been great.

And hate Mario all you want, but he has 11 sacks on a team that can't rush the passer and he never gets to play with the lead. The games in which he disappears are often games in which we are losing the whole time, and it is near impossible for Mario or anyone else to rush the passer while losing. Even Pittsburgh's defense couldn't come up with a sack when they spent the whole game against the Giants down by 10+ points.

Mario has managed to total 11 sacks on a team where nobody else provides any help. Here are the Texans sack leaders.

Mario - 11
Buhlman - 3
Cochran - 2
4 guys tied with ONE

This means he has more sacks than the rest of the team combined. Clearly it is personal with you or you'd see Mario deserves to go. He leads all AFC DEs in both Sacks and Forced Fumbles.

Now I'll be the first to admit, he's not Jared Allen at this point and I doubt he ever will be (he simply doesn't get off the line like an all-time elite pass rusher). But while he doesn't have the first step, he gets it done in other ways and the results are the same. He has the obvious size/speed combo combined with a GREAT motor. Watch a game and you see that Mario truly wears on the opposing OL. He never just clean beats guys and leaves them blocking air like freeney, and I rarely see him get to the QB on a bull rush, but he comes hard on every play and guys eventually wilt under the pressure. That's why so many of his sacks are in the 4th quarter. I have rarely seen a DL play that many snaps and give more effort on every play. Guys like Freeney don't even come off the ball on most running downs.

Either way, you can explain him away all you want, but leading the AFC in sacks and forced fumbles makes him deserving.

[kravix]

I forgot about Vonta! He has been awesome this year.

For some reason when I looked at the sack totals I forgot to break out the DE's by conference although I did pull out the OLB's.

[coloradodude]

Barrett,

I stand by my post. You have a good argument but let's look at the numbers...

Verses Pittsburg, Miami and Indy he got 2 sacks each game.

Against Cincy and Minnesota he got one each.

Recently against a very pathetic Jags team he got 3.

We all expect these type of numbers but here's my point...against a solid Titans, nothing. Jags first meeting, nothing. Baltimore, Indy and Cleveland - a 3 game stretch of nothing but zero.

But the best of all goes to the game against the pathetic Detroit Lions. 2 tackles, 1 solo, 1 assisted and ZERO sacks.

The one statement you made though about not getting sacks once you start losing, well, that's part of why you're losing in the first place. No pressure on the QB which means the O line is dominating in the trenches.

[Nconroe]

Colorado, which DE in AFC do you like and has better stats. Do you watch games at all? Mario is one high motor disruptive player, game in, game out.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

Colorado, which DE in AFC do you like and has better stats. Do you watch games at all? Mario is one high motor disruptive player, game in, game out.

Actually Colorado is right that Mario is taken out of whole games sometimes. I just think that he accomplishes more than enough in spite of this to be in honolulu.

[coloradodude]

Originally Posted by Nconroe

Colorado, which DE in AFC do you like and has better stats. Do you watch games at all? Mario is one high motor disruptive player, game in, game out.

Yeah, he's got a high motor but it ain't running all the time. Please don't think I'm against they guy. But the die hard Mario fans can only give his sack number totals and say, "see, he should be in the Pro Bowl."

But compared to other AFC DE's he's not the leader in tackles. He's tied for 5th with three other guys in that spot.

For solo tackles he's second behind Edwards. Six more and he ties him. And for assisted he's about 23rd.

What I'm saying is he's good but at this point not a shoe in over Freeney or Mathis because he doesn't show up every game like he did against a very weak Jacksonville.

One final example, teams are really game planning for AJ and Slaton. Those guys can screw up the scoreboard in one play and must be accounted for every single play even if we're on the one yard line. When Mario's consistently being double teamed, then yes, he's the best DE in the AFC. Not yet though.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by coloradodude

What I'm saying is he's good but at this point not a shoe in over Freeney or Mathis because he doesn't show up every game like he did against a very weak Jacksonville.

Key to that comment is Frenney AND Mathis. Mario plays with a bunch of slugs pretty much. Not only on the DL, but all over the D'. I don't disagree with you that Mario is no lock, we found that out last year. Just that I don't think people appreciate what he does do considering the lack of talent (and the buffon DC) he has to work with. Put Mario on the Gaints D', or even opposite Freeney or Mathis, and he be a monster.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by coloradodude

Barrett,



We all expect these type of numbers but here's my point...against a solid Titans, nothing. Jags first meeting, nothing. Baltimore, Indy and Cleveland - a 3 game stretch of nothing but zero.

I think that's just as dishonest as claiming he should go to the pro bowl on sack numbers. Freeney is a more dangerous pass rusher at this point, but Marios' better against the run...even if he's not the one making the tackle.

How many guys get 16 sacks in a season. Not many, and most of them have several games where they don't have any. A DE can have a very good game and not have much to show for it. If you think he disappears too much or doesn't get consistent pressure when he's not getting a sack, fine. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I can see your argument somewhat. I do agree that people can get a little carried away with how great he is...or any other player who gets deemed as a star for the home team. Dunta's a perfect example. I hear lots of people talk about Dunta's turned the defense around since he came back. He may be better than Petey, but he hasn't played all that well. That's not a knock on him. I was as fired up as anyone when he came back, and I think he'll be fine next year.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by papabear

Dunta's a perfect example. I hear lots of people talk about Dunta's turned the defense around since he came back. He may be better than Petey, but he hasn't played all that well. That's not a knock on him. I was as fired up as anyone when he came back, and I think he'll be fine next year.

Agreed, but have you noticed how little teams have thrown Dunta's direction since he's been back though?

With so many players and moving parts in the game itself, I'm glad the fans have no more than 1/3 of the Pro Bowl vote. We're among the most interested and knowledgeable fans in forums like these, yet even we are having a hard time differentiating a player's "reputation" from his actual 2008 on-field performance.

If the political-ness of it could be removed, I think the players, coaches, scouts, and GMs should be allowed to pick their all-star rosters....but at the end of the day, it is a game for the fans, to sell tickets and build up more revenue for the business, which is why I don't get worked up over Pro Bowl rosters anyway.

I'll chip in my votes - Andre, Owen, Mario need to go. Slaton and Winston have cases, but probably won't make it. It'd be nice for Winston if right tackles and left tackles were chosen independent of each other.

Also, Kris Brown was money until his miss in Cleveland. I still think he should be considered. Jacoby's had some nice returns this year, but I'm not sure it will be enough to get him in. Leach has done well, but with the whole running game starting so slow, I'm not sure if their success of late will be enough to get Leach to Honolulu.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by Keith

Agreed, but have you noticed how little teams have thrown Dunta's direction since he's been back though?

With so many players and moving parts in the game itself, I'm glad the fans have no more than 1/3 of the Pro Bowl vote. We're among the most interested and knowledgeable fans in forums like these, yet even we are having a hard time differentiating a player's "reputation" from his actual 2008 on-field performance.

I agree that Dunta immediately became the most feared player in our secondary...although I'm not quite on board with the idea that teams have been avoiding him all that much. Maybe a little, but I don't think teams avoided Dunta all that much to begin with before the injury. They might have picked on weaker players, but I never felt like they were scared to throw at him.

I'm fascinated by how quickly guys get labeled by fans and/or media, and how hard it is for them to shake a label once it's stuck on them. It's like when ESPN anoints the"next" Gayle Sayers (Reggie) and then it takes three years of sub par play for them to admit that maybe Mario was a better choice. I made a comment in a bar during a Texans game earlier this year that Demeco wasn't having his usual good game...he'd wiffed on a couple of tackles, seemed slow to react to the run, and had gotten beat in coverage. I had to listen to how crazy I was for next thirty minutes because he's the "best player on our whole team". That might be true, but he still wasn't playing that well that day.

Why aren't we bombarded with news about the investigation into the investigation where Marvin Harrison might have shot someone the way we are with Burress shooting himself....because Burress has been labeled a trouble maker and Harrison's supposed to be a nice guy? I guess media market size can play into that one, but it still proves my point.

Sorry for the completely off topic rant.

[barrett]

Dunta's never really been a great coverage corner. He is a great Zone corner. He tackles great, hits hard, reads the QB, closes well, and breaks on the ball. But in man he is just ok. He is a great CB when facing the QB and is average when he has to turn and run. In a cover 2 system he's as good as they come.

As for this year I don't think teams have a chance to avoid him because he hasn't been outside much. He has played primarily in the slot and has done well there the last few weeks. Guys who get avoided are outside guys who shutdown a side of the field. There are probably 2 or 3 in the whole NFL.