UGLY LOSS!!! Now questions to Ponder going forward.

[nunusguy]

Re the state of the team in terms of the personnel I thought except for the back-end where we had real issues at corner back but had made some improvements at the safety position with the draft of a promising rookie in Justin Reed and a solid pickup of the Badger in FA, but I was really under the impression that we were solid if not downright formidable when it came to our front seven.
But wow the Colts OLine mauled our front line guys the other day so don't now know what to think ?
So yea knew we had lots of issues on offense but now also wondering just what is the quality of the roster on the defensive side ?

[barrett]

I think the front 7 struggles in that game were way overstated by the announcers. We gave up 21 points. Our front 7 produced a tipped pass INT. We played the run well. The only big front 7 issue I saw was the way we let Luck scramble. Aside from that it was a mediocre effort without a ton of pressure, but wasn't bad by any means.

But Booger McFarland is terrible as an announcer and is constantly trying to spin the still happening action into long term narratives. Like the play he declared Clowney and embarrassment for being blocked into the endzone. Then the replay shows Clowney stalemating a double team until he gets pushed into the endzone after the TD.

The issue was our CBs not being anywhere near WRs on normal routes.

[Arky]

The biggest issue for me was OB getting out-coached so badly. The Colts came out and had a good feel for what they could do on offense. The Texans, not so much.

If you had a choice between an ex-NFL QB calling your offense or an ex-DE from Brown University calling your offense, who would you choose? Hmmmm.....

The blame goes all around, though, it's not just him. Players gotta execute and we need better players in certain positions......

It didn't help that Watson had a bad game. I'm afraid when he's not at his best, we have no chance....

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

The biggest issue for me was OB getting out-coached so badly. The Colts came out and had a good feel for what they could do on offense. The Texans, not so much.

If you had a choice between an ex-NFL QB calling your offense or an ex-DE from Brown University calling your offense, who would you choose? Hmmmm.....

The blame goes all around, though, it's not just him. Players gotta execute and we need better players in certain positions......

It didn't help that Watson had a bad game. I'm afraid when he's not at his best, we have no chance....

We got outcoached and outplayed badly. It has zero to do with what positions the HCs played and where they played them.

The top 5 offenses in the NFL this year were led by a BYU OL, a Miami of Ohio WR, a backup QB from University of Idaho, a defensive back from Purdue, and a WR from D3 John Carroll.

The idea that what and where you played football determines your coaching ability is absurd. There are 7 former HOF players who have coached and only one was good at it (Ditka), and only Munchak coached in the modern era. Most NFL football coaches these days were middling players at small colleges who were obsessive football nerds.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

We got outcoached and outplayed badly. It has zero to do with what positions the HCs played and where they played them.

I think you knew where I was going with it but barrett gonna barrett.

The top 5 offenses in the NFL this year were led by a BYU OL, a Miami of Ohio WR, a backup QB from University of Idaho, a defensive back from Purdue, and a WR from D3 John Carroll.

I see 4 offensive players and 1 defensive player. I bet the defensive player has a good OC.

The idea that what and where you played football determines your coaching ability is absurd. There are 7 former HOF players who have coached and only one was good at it (Ditka), and only Munchak coached in the modern era. Most NFL football coaches these days were middling players at small colleges who were obsessive football nerds.

The idea here is if you've been around offenses all your life that this just might be your area of expertise. OB, with his time in New England, feels this qualifies him to be an OC. I think he would be better served to farm it out to someone who is truly offensive minded - who? I dunno, but someone like a Kyle Shanahan could sure make a difference in this offense. If you think OB is doing a fine job with the offense then we don't have much more to talk about....

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

I see 4 offensive players and 1 defensive player. I bet the defensive player has a good OC.

The 5 guys I referenced lead the top 5 offenses. Some are offensive HCs and some are coordinators for non-offensive guys. The one who played defense is Steelers offensive Coordinator Randy Fichtner. So no, he doesn't have a good OC to cover for him, he IS the good OC covering for Tomlin.

Originally Posted by Arky

The idea here is if you've been around offenses all your life that this just might be your area of expertise.

Do you honestly think it's the short and low level playing careers of these guys that qualifies them to run offenses? This isn't the NBA where guys quit playing and are qualified to coach based on their playing knowledge. NFL coaching requires serious professional apprenticeship, and by the time you run and NFL offense you are operating on years of coaching experience, not what position you played in college (or the NFL).

And in today's NFL the old saying "those who can, do. And those who can't, teach" rules the day. These high powered offenses are being run by X and O nerds who are obsessed with football. Whether they played is all but irrelevant. NFL coaches are evaluated on how they coach, not on how they played. So, if you want to knock O'Brien then knock him for how he coaches now, not how he played (or didn't play) 25 years ago.

You're just plain wrong here.

[bikerack]

My friend with the team tells me that BOB is ready and willing to bring in an offensive assistant but stops short of calling it an OC position.

Also, there was some thinking that RAC would call it quits, but after the game, he said "see y'all in a couple of weeks to start on next year" as they were all leaving.

Since J-Jo's salary is $4.5 million next year with $0 in dead money, he doesn't expect him to be cut. Kevin Johnson most likely gone (90% sure) and Kareem 60-70% gone. Matthieu will resign with team.

Belief is that the team will have $67-70 mil in cap space before Clowney decision. If Clowney is tagged or signed, Mercilus is a trade candidate. If Clowney leaves, Mercilus goes back to his old spot and should be happier.

Going back to the offensive asst thing...Kubiak's name has come up in watercooler discussions but the thinking is that he either stays with Denver as OC or some sort of offensive coach or goes to ATL. He has started to let people know he wants to coach again but not be a HC.

EDIT - looks like ATL is going to be hiring Dirk Koetter to be OC...

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

...................
And in today's NFL the old saying "those who can, do. And those who can't, teach" rules the day. These high powered offenses are being run by X and O nerds who are obsessed with football. Whether they played is all but irrelevant.

I disagree with that. You don't think Wes Welker can teach Coutee a thing or two about playing the slot?

NFL coaches are evaluated on how they coach, not on how they played. So, if you want to knock O'Brien then knock him for how he coaches now, not how he played (or didn't play) 25 years ago.

You're just plain wrong here.

It's hard for the narrow minded to think outside the box. If you want to think I'm wrong, that is fine. OB's "apprenticeship" at Georgia Tech and Penn State and as QB-coaching-figure-guy for Tom Brady I don't think learned him much. I don't like the fact that a guy who played defense 25 years ago and runs a pretty unimaginative offense now, fancies himself an OC. He's good at the Head Coach stuff I do believe - just not a very good OC. I think his offense sucks and I doubt anyone in the NFL will be copying it any time soon. Very few times this year, I thought, "Oh, good call, OB!". I want someone who can make me say that at least once a game..... Some people got a knack for it and some don't - I don't think OB has a knack for it (OC). And I still don't like his offensive credentials.