Speculative AJ thread

[nero THE zero]

Let me preface this by saying that I love Andre Johnson. I feel he is truly justified in his recent media comments, deserving of all his probowl trips, over-ridiculed by fans, and the true face of the franchise. Above all else, I love his demeanor. He is the consummate professional playing a diva's position, and I love that. He has suffered through a joke of a coaching staff, quarterback, and offensive scheme for several years, only to miss half of the team's best season under the new coaching staff. Now that he's back and healthy, the team can't win a game. This is obviously the source of a great ammount of frustration that we are seeing, for the first time, manifesting itself in comments to the media. 'Dre is sick of losing, and that's all we've been doing. So, it is with my great admiration for Andre Johnson that I suggest we look at moving him before the trade deadline.

I know that he is signed for several more years which complicates things with the bonus acceleration rules. But, if we could move Andre to a contender for a player and pick(s), I think we would be doing all parties a favor. The contender gets an elite playmaker; the Texans add talent; and Andre goes to a winning team and, presumably, the playoffs for the first time in his NFL career.

Assuming that Kevin Walter and Andre Davis would suffice at WR like they did in AJ's absence last season, you have to start looking at possible partners. I think the most glaring opportunity is the Philadelphia Eagles. The Eagles have sorely been missing a playmaking WR since TO left, and all offseason there were rumors about them looking to move CB Lito Sheppard for WR such as Roy Williams, Chad Johnson, and Larry Fitzgerald. The Eagles also have two first round draft picks in the 2009 due to a trade with the Carolina Panthers. And, while it is true that the Eagles drafted DeSean Jackson in April, the fact that he is a smaller reciever and a rookie seems to enforce the fact that a big, dynamic reciever would put the Eagles over the top. So, you have a team who is an Andre Johnson away from a Super Bowl with a talented CB they're willing to trade and two first round picks in the 2009 draft.

Also, another team to consider is the Dallas Cowboys. They were another team entertaining trade offers for WR in the offseason. Those rumored to the Cowboys were Chad Johnson, Anquan Boldin, and Roy Williams. This is mostly fueled by Terry Glenn's injury situation and Terrell Owen's age. On top of that, they are division rivals with the Eagles, which is another motivating factor for them to stay in the trade talks. So, if you could get talks going with the Eagles you have leverage in Dallas with Cowboys.

So, given Andre's recent media comments, would you be OK with shipping him to Philly for either (a) their two 2009 first round draft picks or (b) Lito Sheppard and one of their 2009 first round picks?

[KJ3]

if we have to sacrifice our best offensive player to get this team out of it's hole, like as our only option, it would suck. but until that's very apparently our only option i'm saying no.

unless AJ wants out. if that's the case, let the bidding-wars begin and don't stop until it reaches the top.

[papabear]

I know you are just speculating, but mid-season trades are very rare in the NFL. Would I give up AJ for 2 first round picks....probably, but there is no way we could get that for him. I don't think you could get that for him in the off-season, much less after the season already started. The passing game in today's NFL requires so much timing and precision that it would be hard to get a new WR worked in as a major part of the offense mid-season. AJ for Lito could probably be hammered out, but I doubt either team wants to make such a big change mid-season...and I'm not so sure I would do it anyway.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

So, given Andre's recent media comments, would you be OK with shipping him to Philly for either (a) their two 2009 first round draft picks or (b) Lito Sheppard and one of their 2009 first round picks?

I would ship him to Philly for both of their 1st.

Why, you do not win with one player, no matter how good he is.

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by painekiller

I would ship him to Philly for both of their 1st.

Why, you do not win with one player, no matter how good he is.

do you win with 2?

[nunusguy]

Unlike the first 3 games, yesterday AJ looked like the old AJ: he was big & fast with great hands and played with real intensity and as a result was simple unstoppable. So I ask you, after he expressed reservations about the teams progress how do you really think he's going to play now ? Right, I'm also thinking he lays down on the job and becomes disinterested and inconsistant again.
Buy low and sell high, and AJs stock should be high again after yesterday. For the sake of the future, I'd move him now even though as others suggested it may be tough time of the year to find a market for him.
I just think AJ is gonna be less interested than ever now in being here, he's in his prime (only 27), and obviously we aren't going anyplace this year.
Problem is McNair would probably refuse to trade him even if he got a good
offer. And right about now he may not be feeling too confidant about the
advice he gets from Smith & McNair.

[da Bull]

At this point in the season I don't think there are that many (if any) trading partners. That being said, I think AJ is part of the problem not the solution. No doubt he has one of the best receiver skill sets in the NFL, is quite (most of the time) and is a "team" player. So why is it all or nothing with him? He speaks out last week and yesterday the game plan was geared toward him. He responded very well, catching everything in sight. This worked well for 3 3/4 quarters. Then the Colts either took him away or he didn't get himself open because he wasn't in the same position as earlier, before the air was let out of the balloon.

Sitting in the stands you don't see (nor feel) the game the same as on TV with replay, TEVO and etc. Even when we were ahead and I thought there was no way we could lose I thought that AJ had gotten his point across to Kubiak at the expense of the other receivers (Jacksonville)..........but it was all good. Then the wheels fell off.

At his point in the season I think it would be great to get a good player, draft picks or even trade AJ for a good defensive coordinator. I think AJ needs a change of scenery for his sake and the team's.

[Keith]

Anyone thinking of trading Andre Johnson before the deadline must have the NFL confused with MLB... the salary cap rules make trading Johnson all but impossible right now.

This isn't a case of dumping your star pitcher for a middle infielder and a truckload of minor league prospects. The Texans need to keep attaining more talent, not trade it away for speculative values. And what would be worse would be if Johnson were traded for something other than a series of first rounders. I have ZERO faith - ABSOLUTELY NONE - in our pro scouting department right now.

Andre Johnson will be in Houston for the long haul.

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by da Bull

At this point in the season I don't think there are that many (if any) trading partners. That being said, I think AJ is part of the problem not the solution. No doubt he has one of the best receiver skill sets in the NFL, is quite (most of the time) and is a "team" player. So why is it all or nothing with him? He speaks out last week and yesterday the game plan was geared toward him. He responded very well, catching everything in sight. This worked well for 3 3/4 quarters. Then the Colts either took him away or he didn't get himself open because he wasn't in the same position as earlier, before the air was let out of the balloon.

so he's a rock to build a foundation upon for 6 years, hits a few games where despite his efforts his play, his teammates and their play, his coaches and their "coaching" everything goes horribly wrong and it's his fault? he's the problem?

calling out andre johnson as the "problem" with this team is just funny.

this team needs to do several things better. andre can do so much from one position (and he usually does) but this team needs better F/A pickups for contracts that don't make a fish butthole squeeze, actual development from draft picks other than ryans and williams, consistent play from o'line/qb, the continuation of decent health reports, a DC....so on.

[da Bull]

Originally Posted by Keith

Anyone thinking of trading Andre Johnson before the deadline must have the NFL confused with MLB... the salary cap rules make trading Johnson all but impossible right now.

This isn't a case of dumping your star pitcher for a middle infielder and a truckload of minor league prospects. The Texans need to keep attaining more talent, not trade it away for speculative values. And what would be worse would be if Johnson were traded for something other than a series of first rounders. I have ZERO faith - ABSOLUTELY NONE - in our pro scouting department right now.

Andre Johnson will be in Houston for the long haul.

Keith, pragmatically I agree with you. AJ has always been the "sacred cow" so to speak, the only play who was thought to be "untouchable." I was only pointing out, that that to me, there's some tarnish on his armor and maybe a few "chinks" under the tarnish.

I could see the Texans trading AJ after the season, "to give him a chance to play on a Super Bowl contender" now. There are a few symptoms of "Ahman Green-itis" starting to show up....but like you said, "NO CONFIDENCE IN THE PRO SCOUTING DEPARTMENT". That would really take some "big cojones" on Rick Smith's part and I just don't see it.

Originally Posted by KJ3

so he's a rock to build a foundation upon for 6 years, hits a few games where despite his efforts his play, his teammates and their play, his coaches and their "coaching" everything goes horribly wrong and it's his fault? he's the problem?

calling out andre johnson as the "problem" with this team is just funny.

After 6 years does he elevate the play of others around him? So is he the so called "foundation", maybe and then again maybe not. I think I would prefer a few smaller "rocks" and a sack of cement than one "big rock" and that same sack of cement to build my foundation.

[bono]

perhaps Andre Johnson is/was having the same issue as Peyton Manning. He didn't play too much in the preseason so when the regular season started he had rust. Yesterday, the rust was gone and we had good ol' AJ

[KJ3]

uh...house building analogies aside i think we can agree this would cut our only strength (passing game) in half.

[NBT]

How about we just start closing out teams in the fourth quarter, and stop talking about trading our best player other than Mario.

[painekiller]

I admit yesterday's lose has me dumbfounded. I really have no clue what this ownership/management needs to do.

Our schedule gets easier, well after the suddenly surging Dolphin's, if Kubiak can get this team to believe in themselves, then he gets another year, if he losses the players then he should go. I think he is here next season.

[Nconroe]

I guess the team had perhaps its best game ever other than the last four minutes of QB knucklehead plays. I suspect they will continue to play hard and salvage a reasonable season from the rough start. A few wins will fix lots of this, sure hope they come soon. I sure wouldn't trade a strength at this time. We are building, not rebuilding, very young already.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by Keith

the salary cap rules make trading Johnson all but impossible right now.

How does it work differently during the season as opposed to the offseason?

Like I said, I know cap issues complicate the hypothetical. Really the point I wanted to raise is; are we a better team with AJ and a 2009 first rounder or Lito Shephard and two 2009 first rounders (or 3 2009 first rounders?)

Your initial reaction is that you're a better team with one of the best 3 WR in the league; a guy who's been humble and loyal to a wretched organization. But, there's an argument to be made that our passing offense can suffice without him (e.g. those 7 games without him last season: 236 yds, 317 yds, 294 yds, 259 yds, 290 yds, 176 yds, 181 yds) especially if you get comparable/more talent back in return.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

...are we a better team with AJ and a 2009 first rounder or Lito Shephard and two 2009 first rounders (or 3 2009 first rounders?).

Do you really believe the Eagles are dumb enough to give up Sheppard AND 2 first rounders for AJ? We're talking about one of the better franchises in the league with making personel decisions. They'd laugh at that offer.

This subject is borderline silly. The guy has his best game so far and people want to ship him out. The franchise is obviously lacking top-level talent. We need to keep our quality young players, do better at drafting, sign better FAs and do better at evaluating talent overall (ours and theirs).

[Keith]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

How does it work differently during the season as opposed to the offseason?

Iirc, the unamortized bonus money accelerates immediately regardless of when the trade happens.

I agree with popanot here. A little off-topic, but the player we should have traded was Rosenfels, a QB discarded by a passer-deficient Dolphins team two years ago who suddenly gained some trade value (at least before about 2:45pm yesterday). Anyone wish they had a third rounder for him now?

If we're looking to trade anyone, you start with overpriced vets who might benefit from a new scheme or a change in scenery, guys like Tony Weaver and Morlon Greenwood ...though there is no one interested in picking up their salaries, Weaver especially. There are so few trades of household name players in the NFL for good reason.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by popanot

Do you really believe the Eagles are dumb enough to give up Sheppard AND 2 first rounders for AJ?

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

So, given Andre's recent media comments, would you be OK with shipping him to Philly for either (a) their two 2009 first round draft picks or (b) Lito Sheppard and one of their 2009 first round picks?

...........

[popanot]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

...........

Like I said, this topic is silly. Philly would laugh at either one of those offers.