Andre contemplating his future- please stay

[bono]

what happens to his cap number if he somehow decided to retire?

[barrett]

His choice is how much money he's willing to give back. If he's willing to sign a totally new deal with his new team, than we can get something for him. If his agent goes shopping and says "Dre will take 2 years and less than $10 milion," then somebody will give up a pick for him. If not then he can try to make us cut him, but we have no incentive and I am not sure he is capable of playing the bad guy.

As for the idea that anyone who makes lots of money for sports is beyond sympathy, that is a viewpoint that some of you have, and I am cool with that. I know plenty of unhappy rich people, and plenty of well paid people who hate their job/employer. I feel bad for them on the same level I'd feel bad for a poor person or a poorly paid person in the same situation. I feel bad that AJ has gone to work and been excellent for the last decade and his bosses have made that mostly irrelevant. How much he does or doesn't make has nothing to do with it in my mind, but I get those who think it does.

[Nconroe]

Andre's contract year by year is explained here - most likely -
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-t...andre-johnson/

In 2010 Andre Johnson signed a 7 year / $67.80 million contract with the Houston Texans, including a $2,817,500 signing bonus, $20,500,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $9,685,714.

The contract and restructure to help Texans cap space is as this most likely-
Sep 3 2013 - Restructured 2013 salary/roster bonus from $10.5 million to $5 million with Houston (HOU)
Mar 13 2012 - Restructured 2012 salary from $6.5 million to $700k with Houston (HOU)
Aug 5 2010 - Signed a 7 year $67.8 million extension with Houston (HOU)
Mar 3 2007 - Signed a 6 year $70 million extension with Houston (HOU)
Jul 22 2003 - Signed a 6 year $39 million contract with Houston (

[chuck]

Originally Posted by barrett

I feel bad that AJ has gone to work and been excellent for the last decade and his bosses have made that mostly irrelevant. How much he does or doesn't make has nothing to do with it in my mind, but I get those who think it does.

I agree with this totally. He is the only great player the franchise has had (if JJ stays healthy for a decade hell surely be the second) and as I have lamented time and time again the organization has effectively squandered his career.

I will add that Andre has largely kept his mouth shut. I would not begrudge his being much more vocal about his displeasure but it strikes me as typical that he was fairly reserved and understated and that the occasion was a charity event he freaking organized.

Oddly enough I ran into him in the airport in Miami about three weeks ago and was able to give him a distilled version of all of this. Unsurprisingly he was not terrifically loquacious.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by chuck

He is the only great player the franchise has had (if JJ stays healthy for a decade hell surely be the second) and as I have lamented time and time again the organization has effectively squandered his career.

It's a business. He's a paid professional athlete. He's among the elite at his position and is paid accordingly. Everyone familiar with the NFL knows who he is and respects his accomplishments. Irrelevant he is not. In another forum, someone said he's Barry Sanders - Houston version. I agree.

What we got here is a disgruntled employee. And he's not disgruntled with his pay (or he shouldn't be). As of right now, he's got two choices: 1) Suck it up, honor his contract and come back to work and (hopefully) play with the same passion or 2) retire.

A third option is possible but would take negotiating. He could ask out of contract to seek employment elsewhere. The Texans don't have to sit down at the negotiation table if they don't want to.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Arky

It's a business. He's a paid professional athlete. He's among the elite at his position and is paid accordingly. Everyone familiar with the NFL knows who he is and respects his accomplishments. Irrelevant he is not. In another forum, someone said he's Barry Sanders - Houston version. I agree.

What we got here is a disgruntled employee. And he's not disgruntled with his pay (or he shouldn't be). As of right now, he's got two choices: 1) Suck it up, honor his contract and come back to work and (hopefully) play with the same passion or 2) retire.

A third option is possible but would take negotiating. He could ask out of contract to seek employment elsewhere. The Texans don't have to sit down at the negotiation table if they don't want to.

Much of what you write is inarguable. The difference of opinion that you and I have is that I am not bothered by his speaking out and you are. From the many things you have said on the subject over the years I side with barrett in thinking that the source of your annoyance is the amount of money he is paid.

This reminds me of the legions of fans who took the owners' side in the lockout, a horde of class-envious wage slaves falling for empty sophistry to side with a bunch of billionaires who'd as soon as piss on you as anything else.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by chuck

Much of what you write is inarguable. The difference of opinion that you and I have is that I am not bothered by his speaking out and you are. From the many things you have said on the subject over the years I side with barrett in thinking that the source of your annoyance is the amount of money he is paid..

I'm a Texan fan. Players come and go. No one player is bigger than the team. That's what annoys me. He really picked a bad time to rock the boat. The team is in transition and need his services. Draft strategy might have been different......

This reminds me of the legions of fans who took the owners' side in the lockout, a horde of class-envious wage slaves falling for empty sophistry to side with a bunch of billionaires who'd as soon as piss on you as anything else.

I think you're saying it's a divorce and I'm pro-husband and you are pro-wife, OK, whatever... we're both right.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Arky

I think you're saying it's a divorce and I'm pro-husband and you are pro-wife, OK, whatever... we're both right.

Unless the wife works for the husband or vice-versa this is an analogy that is difficult to translate.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

It's a business. He's a paid professional athlete. He's among the elite at his position and is paid accordingly. Everyone familiar with the NFL knows who he is and respects his accomplishments. Irrelevant he is not. In another forum, someone said he's Barry Sanders - Houston version. I agree.

What we got here is a disgruntled employee. And he's not disgruntled with his pay (or he shouldn't be). As of right now, he's got two choices: 1) Suck it up, honor his contract and come back to work and (hopefully) play with the same passion or 2) retire.

A third option is possible but would take negotiating. He could ask out of contract to seek employment elsewhere. The Texans don't have to sit down at the negotiation table if they don't want to.

I have no problem with you or anyone else having no sympathy for him. But it is a joke if you think he is compelled to honor a contract that the Texans are not compelled to honor. Does anyone on this forum honestly think AJ is going to play out that contract? There is a 100% chance that he is cut/traded before it expires.

No NFL player needs to honor their contract because no team needs to honor it. Every team and every player is in a continuous state of "go get yours." If Andre decided that at his age getting his is more about playing with an NFL level QB and having a chance to win, than I hope he gets it. And if the Texans decide it is in their best interest to let him go or trade him (now or a year from now), good for them. Those are the current rules of the game.

But why should he honor a contract the Texans will surely not honor.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

I have no problem with you or anyone else having no sympathy for him. But it is a joke if you think he is compelled to honor a contract that the Texans are not compelled to honor. Does anyone on this forum honestly think AJ is going to play out that contract? There is a 100% chance that he is cut/traded before it expires.

No NFL player needs to honor their contract because no team needs to honor it. Every team and every player is in a continuous state of "go get yours." If Andre decided that at his age getting his is more about playing with an NFL level QB and having a chance to win, than I hope he gets it. And if the Texans decide it is in their best interest to let him go or trade him (now or a year from now), good for them. Those are the current rules of the game.

But why should he honor a contract the Texans will surely not honor.

Huh?

"Show up for work and get paid. Don't show up for work and don't get paid."

That's a basic concept you'll find in a contract.

If he just wants to not go through all the OTA's and minicamps like a lot of older players do, I'm betting the Texans would accomodate that.

He's under contract for what, 3 more years? Contractually, he's property of the Texans unless they work something out, i.e. negotiate.

Jake Plummer took retirement over being traded to Tampa Bay.... That was his right.

Maybe he wants to retire and could give a rat's behind who the QB is.... I think a tenured player makes it known if he is going to retire or gives them a "this is my last year and let's adjust the contract". Likewise, a player of AJ's stature would (or should) receive plenty of notice if the team no longer wants his services. Maybe he's heard some whispers......I dunno. JMO, but I think the Texans think he's still got it and want him to stay....

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

Huh?

"Show up for work and get paid. Don't show up for work and don't get paid."

That's a basic concept you'll find in a contract.

If he just wants to not go through all the OTA's and minicamps like a lot of older players do, I'm betting the Texans would accomodate that.

He's under contract for what, 3 more years? Contractually, he's property of the Texans unless they work something out, i.e. negotiate.

Jake Plummer took retirement over being traded to Tampa Bay.... That was his right.

Maybe he wants to retire and could give a rat's behind who the QB is.... I think a tenured player makes it known if he is going to retire or gives them a "this is my last year and let's adjust the contract". Likewise, a player of AJ's stature would (or should) receive plenty of notice if the team no longer wants his services. Maybe he's heard some whispers......I dunno. JMO, but I think the Texans think he's still got it and want him to stay....

Another thing that is usually a basic concept of a contract is that you get paid as long as you keep showing up. That is not the case in the NFL. For whatever reason the NFL has developed a contract system where teams have the right to fire at any moment, for any reason, with no penalty. Meanwhile, players are able to use holdouts, media comments, agent negotiated trades, skipping of optional activities, giving less than perfect effort, etc..., to get what they want.

Usually getting what they want involves money. For Andre it appears to involve being thrown to by an NFL QB.

Like I asked earlier. Do you really believe the Texans plan to honor Andre's contract if he stays?

And he has far more options than show up or retire. In fact we are seeing one of them play out right now. He made one small, mostly harmless comment and turned the whole fan base upside down. You can bet O'Brien and McNair noticed, and you can bet 31 other front offices are silently watching.

I guess the property got sick of the manner in which he was being owned. Too bad for you and the Texans he can do more than just "honor the contract" or retire.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by bono

what happens to his cap number if he somehow decided to retire?

Same as if he were cut. If it didn't work this way, then this would be a serious loophole in the salary cap system.

Andre has a nice chunk on guaranteed money in this deal. I don't question he's frustrated and has no real options, I just question his timing to speak out now. Maybe he expected more from the team this offseason to address the QB position?

Short of retiring though, not sure what Andre expects to get out of this. He doesn't speak often like this to the media, which is why this is as big a story it is. Seems like he basically paid a $30k check out of his charity to create a media opportunity to air his grievances.

And I wouldn't call it mostly harmless... he is already questioning his new QB (Fitzpatrick) before he even hits mini-camp. That's not really how a good teammate and leader acts, which again, knowing how little Andre speaks, really says a lot about his frustration.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Keith

Same as if he were cut. If it didn't work this way, then this would be a serious loophole in the salary cap system.

Andre has a nice chunk on guaranteed money in this deal. I don't question he's frustrated and has no real options, I just question his timing to speak out now. Maybe he expected more from the team this offseason to address the QB position?

Short of retiring though, not sure what Andre expects to get out of this. He doesn't speak often like this to the media, which is why this is as big a story it is. Seems like he basically paid a $30k check out of his charity to create a media opportunity to air his grievances.

And I wouldn't call it mostly harmless... he is already questioning his new QB (Fitzpatrick) before he even hits mini-camp. That's not really how a good teammate and leader acts, which again, knowing how little Andre speaks, really says a lot about his frustration.

Had the Texans used a first-round pick on a QB, even a second rounder, he might have been pacified. But to the surprise and frustration of some of us (obviously including AJ), Rick & Bill practically waited until the 5th round for a QB, signalling they are all about the rebuilding process and not the POs, atleast anytime real soon. So like a childless woman rapidly leaving her primary childbearing years, AJ is getting anxious about his remaining years for a SB game.

[Joshua]

I read on another messageboard that AJ informed the team of his frustrations/uncertainty of his desire to go through a rebuilding process again several weeks ago; i.e. before the draft.

I suspect if the Texans had taken a QB, it would have made the situation better, but I'm not sure it would have changed it entirely. AJ rightfully recognizes that this team probably won't realistically compete until 2016 at the earliest. I understand his desire not to play the last few remaining years of his career on a team which he knows going in is going nowhere.

[Nconroe]

Andre has been our favorite player and best player for several years, so loosing him before the end of his career is a frustrating thought. I guess he will always be a Texan and hope when he goes in HOF it is as a Texan.

And the results of Texans last year in particular and perhaps over last 11 years in total is also frustrating to all of us, not just to Andre.

I think team overall has tried its best, it just hasn't reached the SB yet.

And if I were worried about my legacy perhaps that would bother me some. Look at Antione Bolden, frustrated as no. 2 WR in Arizona, goes to Baltimore and becomes a hero and gets his SB ring, and then released by Baltimore as FA, now at SF. So, is there a similar scenario out there for Andre. is getting close , good enough, very lucky if one gets to SB, ever, no matter which club with or who QB is.

Then, the team is bigger than any one player is a typical view and each player should do his best to help that team he is on at the time. Which would include a positive attitude, especially in public. AJ has been this guy in the past.

Two weeks notice or mention of frustration, one draft process/draft board, already likely set before that is not enough time to fix what ails Texans no matter who drafted. I doubt any of QBs in this year draft class or last years are known or guaranteed successes, all need to practice, get some NFL experience, and then we might know latter in year if drafted QB is what hoped for, or could take longer, right now all are speculating.

We don't really know if Texans have said anything back to Andre other than practices are voluntary and hope to see you soon. We don't even know who Texans expect will be their QB when season starts. We can all have widely differing opinions on this right now.

Hopefully they will talk, Andre can gain trust for new coaches, feel some optimism, and stay. Give it time, no rush right now.

If not, sure, if can't be happy here, time to go is his right to choose that somehow. Hopefully good decision for all by end of training camp.

[popanot]

I highly doubt taking a QB early would've changed what AJ is feeling. I like the Texans chances of rebounding just as much or just as quickly as the Browns, Vikings, or Hags. I think it has more to do with ALL of the changes in their entirety and knowing we're once again an extreme longshot for a Super Bowl run.

It's sad on so many levels, really. While I love AJ and have enjoyed watching him play immensely, if they can trade him (which will likely require he renegotiate), I say do it and let's move on. I hope he stays, but I'm also ready to turn the page and get on with a new era.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by popanot

I highly doubt taking a QB early would've changed what AJ is feeling. I like the Texans chances of rebounding just as much or just as quickly as the Browns, Vikings, or Hags. I think it has more to do with ALL of the changes in their entirety and knowing we're once again an extreme longshot for a Super Bowl run.

So why is Andre speaking NOW, in May, after the draft? Did he not feel this way in January? February? March? April?

The timing is just really odd. Either he has been living in denial or it just took him more than 4 months to organize his thoughts into actual words. Maybe he thought he could negotiate a different set of contract terms to get himself out earlier. Andre hasn't exactly always had the best representation over the years (he only replaced his uncle as his "agent" about four years ago).

[Nconroe]

Here is a pretty good writeup on AJ salary and cap hit.

http://overthecap.com/thoughts-andre...rned-contract/

As I read it, salary and contract likely contributes to AJ frustration as much as thinking he might have a low performance this year due to Texans QB than desired, since after this year he can be released by Texans with no cap hit under current deal.

He has been paid, but less than other superstars such as Fitzgerald at Arizona, or other less accomplished receivers even.

There are about 12 teams that could absorb his salary as is in a trade, only a handful have good expectation to reach SB and they seem to have WR already.