Official Texans vs. Raiders Game Thread, 11/17/2013

HPF Bob · #1 11-20-2013, 02:27 AM

Warren Moon was an undrafted free agent who even brought along his head coach (Hugh Campbell). Kurt Warner was a UDFA. Derek Anderson was a sixth-rounder that became the starting QB both in Cleveland and Arizona.

If he continues to start, Keenum will have half a season under his belt and, if he continues his current pace, he'll finish with a 99.0 QB rating, higher this year than Schaub (77.8), higher than Stafford (92.0), Newton (91.8), Roethlisberger (91.3), Ryan (89.2), Cutler (88.4), Luck (87.0), Dalton (85.2), Brady (83.6), RG3 (83.6) and Kaepernick (81.8).

But, of course, Keenum was never drafted so he'll never play again in this league.

To be fair, ESPN.com has the Total Quarterback Rating (QBR) and rates him at 42.5 out of 100, a ranking still better than Ryan Tannehill, Eli Manning, Matt Schaub, Terrell Pryor, Chad Henne, Geno Smith and Josh Freeman.

barrett · #2 11-20-2013, 09:13 AM

Where did I say anything about UDFA QBs not being able to play? I wrote about 1000 words because I love hearing myself talk, and none of them say anything about Case not being good because he is an UDFA. I said no new coach is going to take a guy with zero track record and zero pedigree.

You can bring up Romo but it isn't even a little similar. Romo survived the Parcells to Phillips transition after starting all 16 games for a 9-7 playoff team. He was already established as the starting QB and had led a team to the playoffs when they changed coaches. Not to mention a new coach was hired because Parcells left, not because he was fired. If Case led us to the playoffs I am pretty sure he would survive a new coach. Obviously that's not happening.

Tony Romo, Warren Moon, and Kurt Warner have nothing to do with whether a new coach will bet his career on a guy with no positive track record.

Joshua · #3 11-20-2013, 10:20 AM

To me, the question is simple. Do you think Case can become an elite QB? If not, you have to try and find one. While i think Case will likely be a serviceable QB, I'm very skeptical of him being great. We've had 8 years of serviceable quarterbacking and you saw where that got us-a damn near riot when our seviceable QB was put in the game last Sunday.

The game has changed. Between rule changes, changes in offensive philosophies, etc., I would argue that who your QB is is almost more important than who the other 52 guys on the team are. Texan fans should know this better than anyone, as we suffered through Manning and are just beginning the Luck era.

Joshua · #4 11-20-2013, 10:34 AM

And let me just add, if you like Case, how are you not drooling over JFF? All he has done is singlehandedly dominate the toughest conference in football as a redshirt freshman and sophomore in the offense Case ran in college. He's Case on steroids.

HPF Bob · #5 11-20-2013, 10:45 AM

All I'm saying is "don't throw him overboard just because he wasn't drafted". Give him a fair chance to win the job, which is probably the rest of 2013. Bring in another guy if you think he's better but the numbers say (at present) that Keenum is better than a lot of former high draft choices that fans drool over.

And don't judge solely on W-L record because he doesn't have the team's top TE, the team's top RB (also a UDFA if anyone recalls) and a piss-poor right side of an offensive line. However, it can be noted that every game he has played in, the Texans were close enough to win with a break or two. I don't hold him responsible for any of the four losses.

Arky · #6 11-20-2013, 11:28 AM

For the record, in 2006 the Cowboys were 3-3 after 6 games - Romo replacing Bledsoe in game #6 (a loss to NYG). This was the game, Parcells made the famous quip, (paraphrasing) "Let's not go and anoint him just yet" and everyone goes "har har har, oh, that Parcells.... such a wise and funny guy". But guess who Parcells starts the rest of the year?...... that's right, Tony Romo. Dallas went 6-4 the rest of the way, Romo bobbles the FG snap against Seattle and its over. Wade Phillips, already on the staff, comes in the next year as head coach. (This is a possibility with the Texans - Wade as replacement or placeholder)....

barrett · #7 11-20-2013, 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

All I'm saying is "don't throw him overboard just because he wasn't drafted". Give him a fair chance to win the job, which is probably the rest of 2013. Bring in another guy if you think he's better but the numbers say (at present) that Keenum is better than a lot of former high draft choices that fans drool over.

And don't judge solely on W-L record because he doesn't have the team's top TE, the team's top RB (also a UDFA if anyone recalls) and a piss-poor right side of an offensive line. However, it can be noted that every game he has played in, the Texans were close enough to win with a break or two. I don't hold him responsible for any of the four losses.

The numbers can be decieving on many levels. I would not judge Case off of W/L record alone, but it's a factor. I would not judge him off passer rating alone, but it's a factor. We are a bad scoring offense with him playing QB and that's a factor. He has been awesome at big plays and deep balls. He has been bad at moving the chains. He has been great in the first quarter. He has been terrible in the 2nd half. He is playing without Foster. AJ appears to love him.

There is plenty to intrigue me. He has not played himself into or out of a job this year and may well do either down the stretch. If Kubiak is coming back the best option is probably Case, something else high in the draft, and an attempt at an immediate reload and hoping this year was an anomaly (from McNair's perspective). Then Kubiak and Case get a year to win a future here.

But if Kubiak is not coming back it's a near gaurantee Case isn't either. He just hasn't done anything in the pros that would make a new coach tie his star to him.

Arky · #8 11-20-2013, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett

.............

But if Kubiak is not coming back it's a near gaurantee Case isn't either. He just hasn't done anything in the pros that would make a new coach tie his star to him.

Well, I disagree a bit here. If Kubes is gone and they bring in a defensive-minded head coach/coordinator, he may leave this decision to his offensive coordinator - depends on who that is..... If Wade is elected coach or placeholder, Keenum probably stays. Even an offensive minded head coach may or may not like what he sees in Keenum.... I see it as 50:50 dependent on Keenum's performance the rest of the year. If Keenum has a couple or 3 games where he lights up the scoreboard, he's not going anywhere....

There are 6 games left for Keenum to prove his worth. A lot can happen between now and then. Who knows, if the Texans win 6 or 7 games, McNair might point to the injuries as the reason for the poor season and Kubes stays.

Like I've said, this discussion can be better addressed in the offseason....

Arky · #9 11-20-2013, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua

And let me just add, if you like Case, how are you not drooling over JFF? All he has done is singlehandedly dominate the toughest conference in football as a redshirt freshman and sophomore in the offense Case ran in college. He's Case on steroids.

I love JFF but I would be concerned with having two peas in a pod. I don't think he's as accurate as Case and he turns the ball over too much but what, he's still only 20 years old? He's very intriguing..... I'm concerned the NFL might rough him up ala RGIII..... But someone is gonna snag him - wouldn't object if the Texans did it....

barrett · #10 11-20-2013, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arky

I love JFF but I would be concerned with having two peas in a pod. I don't think he's as accurate as Case and he turns the ball over too much but what, he's still only 20 years old? He's very intriguing..... I'm concerned the NFL might rough him up ala RGIII..... But someone is gonna snag him - wouldn't object if the Texans did it....

Almost all of these things concern me as well.

I don't think the RG3 thing worries me a ton though. RG3 is not elusive no matter how fast he is (world class speed). He is a straight line guy. Purely in terms of running ability, Manziel looks more like a faster Russel Wilson. He does it with pump fakes and spins and reversing his field and vision. When he scrambles it is essentially Sandlot football. Griffin is straight up field without a ton of wiggle when he scrambles, so guys get way more clean shots (plus he's bad about getting out of bounds or getting down). I don't recall a ton of clean shots on Manziel in the games I've watched. I think his tendency to turn the ball over is way more concerning than anything else.

Joshua · #11 11-20-2013, 01:04 PM

I don't see the accuracy issues with JFF. Isn't he leading all of college football in completion percentage at around 75%? While that's not the end-all, be-all, it's hard to lead the nation in completion percentage as an inaccurate QB.

Turnovers are somewhat of a concern but I'm not sure they aren't a function of him thinking he has to come away with points every possession. He'll never say it, of course, but I suspect he wouldn't take as many chances if his defense played a little better. Admittedly this is speculation on my part.