replacement refs

[HPF Bob]

There's no doubt that the quality of officiating has suffered but I think what has happened is that certain pro-union voices are trying to make every call seem like the worst call ever because they want public opinion to be so anti-replacement that the perception will be the NFL is turning off fans when, in reality, the fans are much happier watching football with replacement refs than watching no NFL football because of a lockout/strike on the refs.

The NFL has all the leverage here (as they did with the players) so the only thing the pro-union folks can do is hyperventilate about every questionable call to the point that they think they can force a settlement.

All in all, I think the refs have done ok with what they have to work with but they obviously aren't the real refs. I go back to botched call after botched call by the *real* union refs I saw last year and I ask "what's their excuse"?

If the baggage-handlers at the airport go on strike and the replacements break a mirror in your luggage, you might get miffed or you might just accept that it is better than having your baggage left on the tarmac because there was nobody there to put it on the plane.

[Nconroe]

The owners locked out refs even though refs said they'd work under old agreement while negotiating new contract.

The problem in addition to fill in refs have lost control of players and coaches is that team win loss record now impacted.

It was several horrible calls without correction last night, no pro union spin needed.

Games are like 45 min longer with repl refs.

Guys getting hurt due to lack of control, we are lucky Schaub wasn't hurt worse.

Atleast some negotation finally going last four days even though this has been a known problem for a year.

I like fairness and truth by all, don't think league giving us that.

Tv money drives league profits so owners don't have all the power.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

There's no doubt that the quality of officiating has suffered but I think what has happened is that certain pro-union voices are trying to make every call seem like the worst call ever because they want public opinion to be so anti-replacement that the perception will be the NFL is turning off fans when, in reality, the fans are much happier watching football with replacement refs than watching no NFL football because of a lockout/strike on the refs.

The NFL has all the leverage here (as they did with the players) so the only thing the pro-union folks can do is hyperventilate about every questionable call to the point that they think they can force a settlement.

All in all, I think the refs have done ok with what they have to work with but they obviously aren't the real refs. I go back to botched call after botched call by the *real* union refs I saw last year and I ask "what's their excuse"?

If the baggage-handlers at the airport go on strike and the replacements break a mirror in your luggage, you might get miffed or you might just accept that it is better than having your baggage left on the tarmac because there was nobody there to put it on the plane.

Ya, I agree with most of this.

So far IMO, the replacement refs have been doing a good job. When I see flubbed calls, delays in the game, etc, I accept it the same way I would tolerate a new employee as he/she learns the ropes - OJT. I'm pretty sure these fellas are trying the best they can. Ideally, the situation with the real refs will work itself out sooner rather than later but if it doesn't, I expect the replacements to get somewhat better as the season progresses.

As far as the MNF game goes, I had Seattle in my pickem leagues, so I thought it was a good call . J/k, it was a lousy call and should have been negated by the offensive PI. I will say, shame on Green Bay for playing like crap most of the game and letting it come down to that one play. Many, many plays in the game where they could've made a difference.... Many times in the past I've seen a close game decided by a player making a mistake (GQ anyone?). Too bad this game was decided by a referee making a mistake....

[HPF Bob]

The amazing thing is that how generally non-sinister the blown calls have been. If you watched the Sunday night game, you would have sworn the refs were doing a screw job on the Ravens but then on the final drive, all the calls went against the Patriots. Since I'm not rooting for either team, I don't really care the outcome (just like the GB-SEA game) but it sure seemed that if the refs were intentionally throwing a game, their calls don't reflect it.

[chuck]

WTF are you people talking about? No one is accusing the replacement refs of throwing the games. They can't call a game much less organize themselves to throw a game. They couldn't organize a lay in a brothel. Of course they're doing the best that they can but they are a motley assortment of junior high castoffs and people they rounded up in line at the plasma collection clinic. The NFL is a multi-billion dollar enterprise and the mind-boggling greed and mean-spiritedness of the owners has turned the league into a national joke.

How a bunch of hourly employees, people that survive paycheck to paycheck, dirt farmers, cube jockeys, fast food eaters, hell, fast food workers, how these people can see their way to side with billionaires over employees is absolutely astonishing to me. Not just here but everywhere that I've seen this discussed.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by chuck

WTF are you people talking about? No one is accusing the replacement refs of throwing the games. They can't call a game much less organize themselves to throw a game. They couldn't organize a lay in a brothel. Of course they're doing the best that they can but they are a motley assortment of junior high castoffs and people they rounded up in line at the plasma collection clinic. The NFL is a multi-billion dollar enterprise and the mind-boggling greed and mean-spiritedness of the owners has turned the league into a national joke.

How a bunch of hourly employees, people that survive paycheck to paycheck, dirt farmers, cube jockeys, fast food eaters, hell, fast food workers, how these people can see their way to side with billionaires over employees is absolutely astonishing to me. Not just here but everywhere that I've seen this discussed.

Seems to me like most people have sided with the refs and expressed their displeasure with the league/owners. Most of the comments I've heard on TV, radio, etc. have revolved around telling the owners to make a deal and get the real refs back. In fact, I've heard virtually no discussion of the real refs' demands and whether they are reasonable and should be conceded by the league.

As I understand it, one of the biggest sticking points was the refs' demand for a full blown pension. Foremost, pension benefits have largely been phased out of most compensation packages in favor of defined contribution plans. The league has apparently done this with its employees and didn't want the refs to be the exception. I can certainly understand this stance, particularly considering the refs are generally considered part-time employees with most having full time jobs, often as doctors and lawyers. I certainly wouldn't fault the owners for drawing a line in the sand here and wouldn't hold it against them for refusing to give this concession.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Seems to me like most people have sided with the refs and expressed their displeasure with the league/owners. Most of the comments I've heard on TV, radio, etc. have revolved around telling the owners to make a deal and get the real refs back. In fact, I've heard virtually no discussion of the real refs' demands and whether they are reasonable and should be conceded by the league.

As I understand it, one of the biggest sticking points was the refs' demand for a full blown pension. Foremost, pension benefits have largely been phased out of most compensation packages in favor of defined contribution plans. The league has apparently done this with its employees and didn't want the refs to be the exception. I can certainly understand this stance, particularly considering the refs are generally considered part-time employees with most having full time jobs, often as doctors and lawyers. I certainly wouldn't fault the owners for drawing a line in the sand here and wouldn't hold it against them for refusing to give this concession.

I can fault the owners on one major issue, the ref requested to work this season under the old agreement while they continue to negotiate, but the owners chose to lock them out and bring in the unqualified replacements. Then the owners refused until the last week to have talks. They made an offer and said take it or we lock you out.

That is my complaint. The owners as a group do not care about the shield, they do not care about the game, they do not care about the players, they only care about the bottom line. And this has been a public relations back fire.

And I am for the most part pro business.

[barrett]

I don't have to be pro-union to say the owners are wrong here. Goodell tried to negotiate with a gun just because he thought he could. I don't care how much leverage the owners have, all that leverage has not helped them one bit to avoid ruining the first 3 weeks of the season. And if anyone thinks that since ratings have not gone down, the owners don't care, then I ask why the owners immediately caved following Monday night?

The NFL could have had a partial victory over the refs months ago. Or they could have negotiated while games were being played. Instead they chose to go the lockout/scorched earth route for no apparent reason other than because they could.

The rhetoric from both sides (players and owners) and the willingness to turn every issue into a death struggle (refs, bounties, head trauma, etc...) is really starting to turn me off of the NFL. Not in a way that I'll voluntarily stop watching (I'm an addict and could never quit), but in a way that I almost wish they blow something so bad that there is nothing for me to watch. Like maybe the players 'win' a giant lawsuit and it bankrupts the NFL model and all the players who 'won' the lawsuit are out of a job and we're all watching the Arena League.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by painekiller

I can fault the owners on one major issue, the ref requested to work this season under the old agreement while they continue to negotiate, but the owners chose to lock them out and bring in the unqualified replacements. Then the owners refused until the last week to have talks. They made an offer and said take it or we lock you out.

Agree that this was both a selfish and ultimately disastrous decision that blew up in their faces.