Texans FA's

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

OK so this guy goes out and blows all of his cash plus going deeply into debt to purchase a brand new Maserati leaving himself without even enough money to make his mortgage payment so that his house is now repossessed and he's no longer got a house (with a garage) to park his brand new prize vehicle. Is this what Rick Smith has done, put himself in a crappy neighborhood in a rental and his new car parked out in front on the curb, and if so how could he make such a
miscalculation ?

I think it was LZ who tweeted that the Texans are in cap hell right now. What I don't understand is how. OK, that's not entirely accurate, I do somewhat understand how but it shouldn't be the case. If you were to make a list of the most important/best guys on this team, I suspect that, in random order, it would look something like this:

Arian Foster
Andre Johnson
Duane Brown
Brian Cushing
Johnathan Joseph
J.J. Watt
Mario Williams
Chris Myers
Matt Schaub
Connor Barwin
Owen Daniels
Brooks Reed

Of that list, 5 are still on their rookie contracts and are considerably underpaid (especially the late 1st rounders and 2nd rounders). And Foster was in that camp as of last week as well. 2 are free agents right now (Myers and Mario) with several more to become free agents next year (Brown, Schaub, Barwin).

To date, the core of our team has been very cheap and virtually none of them are locked up long term. The Texans should be in a great cap situation. With the exception of Joseph, AJ, and now Foster, they were getting all of their good players on the cheap. Unfortunately, the warm fuzzies produced by this season are starting to wear off and I may be returning to my pessimistic ways.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Of that list, 5 are still on their rookie contracts and are considerably underpaid (especially the late 1st rounders and 2nd rounders). And Foster was in that camp as of last week as well. 2 are free agents right now (Myers and Mario) with several more to become free agents next year (Brown, Schaub, Barwin).

To date, the core of our team has been very cheap and virtually none of them are locked up long term. The Texans should be in a great cap situation. With the exception of Joseph, AJ, and now Foster, they were getting all of their good players on the cheap. Unfortunately, the warm fuzzies produced by this season are starting to wear off and I may be returning to my pessimistic ways.

And you can add into the equation that AJ has renegotiated twice to help out the cap situation. I don't get it either. Where is this $$ being spent? OD re-signed recently and I guess they had to pay well for A. Smith, but come on, it's not like this roster is studded with high-priced vets and FAs.

Now, I'm not down on Smith or the Texans for not being players in FA this year. I'm glad they're not, actually. However, I'm HUGELY down on him for getting us into this situation and possibly losing some of our key guys (OL). These are guys that are on the 'lower-end' payscale by NFL standards. Even worse is the fact next year is going to be downright scary if they can't figure it out. We have some big names coming up for new contracts. D. Brown alone is going to get a king's ransom.

[WMH]

Ben Tate on the move? http://t.co/5IK60yQn -- Dave Richard (@daverichard)

[popanot]

Originally Posted by WMH

Ben Tate on the move? http://t.co/5IK60yQn -- Dave Richard (@daverichard)

Other than a draft pick, what the does CLE have to offer? The only way I'd give up Tate for a draft pick is if it's for a #1 and I doubt CLE would do that. Guess I'd consider Little, but it's not like he's proven and I'm not sure CLE would even give him up.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by popanot

Other than a draft pick, what the does CLE have to offer? The only way I'd give up Tate for a draft pick is if it's for a #1 and I doubt CLE would do that. Guess I'd consider Little, but it's not like he's proven and I'm not sure CLE would even give him up.

Dunno, was surprised to see that. IF they have to retool the O-line, draft may be the only thing we can afford. CLE does have 2 1s.....

[WMH]

Originally Posted by popanot

Other than a draft pick, what the does CLE have to offer? The only way I'd give up Tate for a draft pick is if it's for a #1 and I doubt CLE would do that. Guess I'd consider Little, but it's not like he's proven and I'm not sure CLE would even give him up.

Ben Tate's agent has told me he can't confirm/deny there have been trade negotiations w/ his client, but it "wouldn't surprise me" he says -- Keith Britton (@KeithBritton86)

[popanot]

Tate and our #26 for #4? Blackmon/Claiborne/or Kalil @ #4 and use our #2 on LaMicheal James - or OL and Peed w/#3? It would make sense trying to get something big for Tate. Value is high and he's probably none too happy with the Foster deal.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Joshua

I think it was LZ who tweeted that the Texans are in cap hell right now. What I don't understand is how.

Complicating the cap situation for 2012 is that the Texans probably expected the cap to increase far more than it did over 2011. Prior to the new CBA, I remember thinking a few years ago that I thought the 2012 cap would be closer to $140 million by this point.

The Texans never thought it would be that high this year, but it only jumped less than a half million. That's got to be less than they thought.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Keith

Complicating the cap situation for 2012 is that the Texans probably expected the cap to increase far more than it did over 2011. Prior to the new CBA, I remember thinking a few years ago that I thought the 2012 cap would be closer to $140 million by this point.

The Texans never thought it would be that high this year, but it only jumped less than a half million. That's got to be less than they thought.

Admittedly, my cap knowledge is limited to say the least. However, I seem to recall it being known once the new CBA was completed that the cap would be fairly stagnant the first 2 years into the deal; i.e., 2011 and 2012. I may not be remembering this correctly though.

In any event, my biggest complaint is that of our top 12 players (or at least, my rough estimation of them), about half are underpaid, 2 are free agents this year and 3 are free agents next year. How can you be in cap hell when virtually all of your top players are on their rookie contracts, free agents or soon-to-be free agents?

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Joshua

How can you be in cap hell when virtually all of your top players are on their rookie contracts, free agents or soon-to-be free agents?

Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Keith

Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now.

I get the arithmetic. And I'm not trying to bust your chops and I appreciate your responses. My point is just that I think they have potentially mismanaged the cap if half their top 12 players are underpaid yet we're still too cap strapped to even attempt to retain the few who are reaching free agency.

Every team in the league deals with the same cap. Apparently, we're in one of the worst cap shapes of any team in the league despite the bargains we're currently enjoying with Brown, Watt, Barwin, Reed, Cushing, Quin, etc.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Joshua

I get the arithmetic. And I'm not trying to bust your chops and I appreciate your responses. My point is just that I think they have potentially mismanaged the cap if half their top 12 players are underpaid yet we're still too cap strapped to even attempt to retain the few who are reaching free agency.

Every team in the league deals with the same cap. Apparently, we're in one of the worst cap shapes of any team in the league despite the bargains we're currently enjoying with Brown, Watt, Barwin, Reed, Cushing, Quin, etc.

So two points... first, who's underpaid? Just the guys still playing their rookie contracts? That's pretty good actually. And second, pity the Texans for having so many of their draft picks live up to and exceed their draft expectations. It's a good problem to have.

So how have they mismanaged the cap? Compared to the latter half of the Casserly years, this administration has done really well. The Texans just have a lot of players on the payroll who are actually earning what they are getting paid. It finally paid off in the win column last season as well.

Just checked, the sky is not falling.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Keith

So two points... first, who's underpaid? Just the guys still playing their rookie contracts? That's pretty good actually. And second, pity the Texans for having so many of their draft picks live up to and exceed their draft expectations. It's a good problem to have.

So how have they mismanaged the cap? Compared to the latter half of the Casserly years, this administration has done really well. The Texans just have a lot of players on the payroll who are actually earning what they are getting paid. It finally paid off in the win column last season as well.

Just checked, the sky is not falling.

Exactly. When you successfully create one of the most talented rosters, you are going to have one of the most expensive. It is why teams like Indy and NE have bled talent for years. It is far harder to stay talented than to get talented.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Keith

So two points... first, who's underpaid? Just the guys still playing their rookie contracts? That's pretty good actually. And second, pity the Texans for having so many of their draft picks live up to and exceed their draft expectations. It's a good problem to have.

So how have they mismanaged the cap? Compared to the latter half of the Casserly years, this administration has done really well. The Texans just have a lot of players on the payroll who are actually earning what they are getting paid. It finally paid off in the win column last season as well.

Just checked, the sky is not falling.

First, I, of course, agree that having your rookies work out is great and I never suggested otherwise (something I pretty sure you understood). However, if all of your best players are your draft picks and you're currently getting them at a discount, this should suggest that you should not be one of the worst cap teams in the league. A healthy cap should be one of the fruits of your labors.

As for who is underpaid, as I said above, I think about half of our top 12 players are underpaid, several vastly so. When half of your best 12 players are underpaid and several other important pieces are set to be free agents shortly and you're up against the cap, I think that suggests a problem. Your mileage may vary.

[WMH]

In all seriousness, I truly believe that the Texans have an offer on the table for Mario, if/when he signs with Buffalo, these funds will be immediately diverted to Myers. Not saying I agree with thier priority, but I think that was what they are thinking.

The problem with all of this is timing. As we saw last year, Smith was quick to dump the Aso chase and deal with JJoe. IMO, we are in a better spot this year, as Myers likely wants to return. Hopefully, it will work out like this.

My glass is still half full......for now.

[Keith]

My glass sits half full at the moment too. My only question is if the Texans know that the Bills want to fork over a $100M deal to Mario, I just am not sure if I'd be as willing to pay for it.

That they prioritize pass rush over all else, great.
That they prioritize Myers over Winston, great.
That they haven't made a "splash" yet in UFA, great.

Mostly my other question is just why both Jacoby and Walter are both still on the roster at their current cap figures. Neither is a #2 WR, yet both are paid at or near that amount.

I'd also try to get DeMeco to renegotiate/restructure. His replacements, be they Dobbins or Sharpton, seem capable, though I do admit they probably lack the leadership that DeMeco provides. Just wonder how important his leadership still is given what the unit achieved last season.

[WMH]

[QUOTE=Keith;29626]Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now. [QUOTE]

Only problem with this one is Schaub is not healthy. That is a huge risk. I know we've all heard the lip service from the Chronic and others, but still a risk they may not want to take.

If they want to extend anyone, I would think they would look at Antonio. He's solid, and I believe has 2 years left.

Also, remember all those restructures from last year to get JJoe and DManning? They dumped '11 money into '12, and ......Well, here we are.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by WMH

Only problem with this one is Schaub is not healthy. That is a huge risk. I know we've all heard the lip service from the Chronic and others, but still a risk they may not want to take.

Oh, I agree totally with this reasoning, just implying that McNair's praise of Schaub and reasoning for not pursuing Manning rings hollow when most teams who love their QB probably don't let him dangle in the final contract year when he realistically has several productive years left in his body.

Reality is yeah, I am nervous as heck investing in Schaub given his injury history and more immediately just how healthy he even is right now. With him healthy, this is a Super Bowl team.

The brittle tag on Schaub has often been too harsh, but missed games are missed games, and Schaub has missed a lot.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by Keith

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now.

Totally agree with this. I'm actually stunned they haven't extended anyone at this point, especially Schaub. Save for Foster, it amazes me how this franchise waits until the witching hour to re-sign the guys you know they want to keep.

BTW, new tweet:
Liz Mullen‏ @SBJLizMullen -
Texans free agent Center Chris Myers is going to visit the Tennessee Titans tomorrow.

Just think how fun this offseason will be if the Titans sign Manning and Myers.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by WMH

I was wondering what kind of money that a #2 WR would get, you know, someone like Garcon. Well, that market has been set by Garcon, to the tune of 5 yrs, $42.5MM with $21 gtd as he signs with the Skins.

Maybe Jacoby wasn't so bad afterall
Don't see us playing in that game.

Unless Tennessee is running a zone scheme I almost hope they overpay Meyers. He will get pushed around in any traditional scheme.

The problem is when you win teams start overpaying for your guys because you made them look good. Aside from Duane brown I think OL are more plug and play than RBs in our offense.