Faneca on the Radar?

[WMH]

Originally Posted by Joe Joe

Imagine how you would feel if Amobi got 6.5 sacks. Now take that feeling and reverse it. That is how you shoul feel about acquiring a guard who blocks the run well, but gave up 6.5 sacks.

My personal opinion, that is a loaded stat. I would put Schaub and our recievers up against Sanchez and the Jets receivers 7 days a week. Linemen get "blamed" for sacks even though it is not always thier fault. QB hangs onto the ball too long, coverage sacks, etc.

The dude, even at 33 is a baller, and would give us the type of push we need up the middle to score from the damn 1 yard line. If he gives up a sack once every four games, but lets Tate run thru 4 times from the 1, we win in that signing.

Just my thoughts.

[Joshua]

While the money probably has to be right, I don't see any downside to this and it has the potential to be a significant upgrade. Quite frankly, after trotting out Myers, Studdard, etc. last year, it boggles my mind that people think someone like Faneca can't help this team. If someone like Faneca isn't worth considering, I'm honestly curious as to who would be. Sure there are some minor concerns but anyone who gets cut will have something you can point to, otherwise they wouldn't be cut. However, it ain't like if we just wait long enough someone will cut a 26 year old pro bowler with a mean streak on the field and a heart of gold off it.

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by WMH

My personal opinion, that is a loaded stat. I would put Schaub and our recievers up against Sanchez and the Jets receivers 7 days a week. Linemen get "blamed" for sacks even though it is not always thier fault. QB hangs onto the ball too long, coverage sacks, etc.

The dude, even at 33 is a baller, and would give us the type of push we need up the middle to score from the damn 1 yard line. If he gives up a sack once every four games, but lets Tate run thru 4 times from the 1, we win in that signing.

Just my thoughts.

Faneca was protecting a rookie quarterback in a "don't lose the game for us" offense. I would presume Sanchez held onto the ball too long at times and was told not to throw a pick at all costs at others. I wouldn't get too worked up over the Jets' sack totals last season.

And I agree that we need two guys we can run behind in this line that can get us the tough yard on third-and-one or third-and-goal. Don't care which two guys those are but we weren't getting any surge most of the year when we needed it most.

[Big Texas]

Anyway you look at this, Faneca would be an upgrade for our Oline. Not to mention veteran leadership for Caldwell.

[Bigtinylittle]

I agree that Schaub had a lot to do with that number. Unlike HWWNBN, Schaub is very good at finding open receivers. He rarely pulls the ball down. Also, he's not afraid to just throw the ball away. In a strange way, his lack of mobility has been an asset. It has forced him to learn to get rid of the ball.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by WMH

My personal opinion, that is a loaded stat.
Just my thoughts.

The Jets ran 1047 plays and the Texans ran 1063 plays. Not all plays are created equal. Some teams are more likely to pass on 3rd and 5 than others, thus defenses more likely to blitz those teams. Now, over the duration of a season, we may find an equalization of those situations. Just crunching the numbers.....

The Jets were sacked 2.86% of their plays.
The Texans were sacked 2.35% of theirs.

I'll take the guy who has gone to Pro-Bowls and can create holes to run through over Studdard.

[Joe Joe]

Originally Posted by Roy P

I'll take the guy who has gone to Pro-Bowls and can create holes to run through over Studdard.

Very similar logic got the Texans Ahman Green....

Faneca accounted for over 20% of their sacks allowed and he has the same rookie QB that the rest of the Jets line had to deal with. I'm hopeful that Tate will start at RB. Having a guard weak at pass blocking may make the Texans less willing to let Tate learn pass blocking on the job.

I'd have no problem getting Faneca at league minimum, but would probably only use him in short yardage situations.

[Joshua]

Couple of points, I'm confused by the insinuation that 20% represents some excessive percentage. An offensive line is 5 guys so if they each gave up the same amount of sacks, each would be responsible for 20%. Not sure how you concluded that 20% was some out of proportion amount.

As others have pointed out (and as us Texans fans should be painfully aware), there are many reasons for sacks to occur and I think it is somewhat simplistic to just pull up his sacks allowed and base an opinion on that. For instance, I pulled up Steve Hutchinson (generally considered the best guard in football) and here are his career sacks allowed -

2001 7.00
2002 0.00 (only played 4 games)
2003 5.00
2004 3.00
2005 1.25
2006 4.50
2007 3.00
2008 7.00
2009 3.50

Even Hutchinson has averaged over 4 sacks allowed per year for his career and gave up 7 2 years ago. I hope Steve Hutchinson would still be on most people's radar even after giving up 7 sacks in 2008.

Although I admit it is little more than a popularity contest, Faneca is a multiple pro bowler, and I've never heard anyone say that Faneca is not an above average, if not elite, guard. While I might not want to break the bank for him, I can't see how anyone can argue that he simply doesn't have enough on-the-field ability to challenge even Kasey Studdard.

And I think the Ahman Green analogy is misplaced. Green was a known injury risk as well as over-the-hill. It was a calculated risk that failed but I think most people knew that risk was there. Faneca, on the other hand, is only 33 and offensive linemen are often productive into their mid, if not late, 30s. Just don't see the comparison unless you think anyone we consider over the age of 30 can be stuck with the "very similar logic got the Texans Ahman Green" card.

[barrett]

If the money is right this is a no brainer. And as long as no long term committment is required in the form of gauranteed money counting towards future years, I would even pay him well this year.

The beauty of the NFL is that you send them all to training camp and let them determine who the best player is. Just like when we signed Roosevelt Colvin a few years ago. As long as you are not putting a long term committment out there you always bring in the vet. Then you hope the young guys are good enough to beat him out, and if they aren't you have improved your team.

The Ahman Green signing was far different in that it was early in FA and it falsely convinced the Texans they could stand pat at RB through the remainder of FA and the draft. This signing would come after all of our moves and it didn't keep us from making other moves at guard.

[nunusguy]

Alan Faneca if signed would replace Studdard and play left guard, that's the plan ? Oh and this is off the topic, but I've always wondered why our least athletic guard plays the position generally acknowledged to be the more athletically demanding position ( between left & rfight guard ) ?
So anyway the scenario with Faneca at LG has who at the remaining 2 interior OLine positions among Briesel (assuming he's fully recovered from injury), Wade Smith, Myers, and Caldwell with the understanding that Smith & Caldwell can play either center or RG ?

[Nconroe]

I'd go along with Barrett's scenario, invite him in to camp, offer him a good salary if he makes it through training camp.

There are definitely references out there saying he has lost a step and has not pass protected as well as he used to, but run blocking is still considered top notch.

on the math/statistics -
Texans passed 60% of their 1062 plays which is 637 plays you can get sacked on. overall Texans allowed 25 sacks and Studdard allowed 5 of these.
so Studdard allowed 637/5 or 1 sack every 127 pass plays, not bad.

Jets passed on 42% of 1047 plays which is 439 pass plays. overall Jets allowed 30 sacks and Faneca allowed 7 of those. so Faneca allowed 439/7 or 1 sack every 62 pass plays.

if you were to compare the 2009 numbers - Faneca allowed more than double the sacks as Studdard per pass play.

if we are a passing team first, might not be such a great idea.

[Joe Joe]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Couple of points, I'm confused by the insinuation that 20% represents some excessive percentage. An offensive line is 5 guys so if they each gave up the same amount of sacks, each would be responsible for 20%. Not sure how you concluded that 20% was some out of proportion amount.

As others have pointed out (and as us Texans fans should be painfully aware), there are many reasons for sacks to occur and I think it is somewhat simplistic to just pull up his sacks allowed and base an opinion on that. For instance, I pulled up Steve Hutchinson (generally considered the best guard in football) and here are his career sacks allowed -

2001 7.00
2002 0.00 (only played 4 games)
2003 5.00
2004 3.00
2005 1.25
2006 4.50
2007 3.00
2008 7.00
2009 3.50

Even Hutchinson has averaged over 4 sacks allowed per year for his career and gave up 7 2 years ago. I hope Steve Hutchinson would still be on most people's radar even after giving up 7 sacks in 2008.

Although I admit it is little more than a popularity contest, Faneca is a multiple pro bowler, and I've never heard anyone say that Faneca is not an above average, if not elite, guard. While I might not want to break the bank for him, I can't see how anyone can argue that he simply doesn't have enough on-the-field ability to challenge even Kasey Studdard.

And I think the Ahman Green analogy is misplaced. Green was a known injury risk as well as over-the-hill. It was a calculated risk that failed but I think most people knew that risk was there. Faneca, on the other hand, is only 33 and offensive linemen are often productive into their mid, if not late, 30s. Just don't see the comparison unless you think anyone we consider over the age of 30 can be stuck with the "very similar logic got the Texans Ahman Green" card.

I would expect the tackles to have a greater percentage of sacks allowed than the interior linemen. Also, I expect some sacks allowed may be charged to RBs even though I'm not positive on that. The Jets released Faneca and it wasn't cheap for them to do so. A pro bowl offensive linemen just doesn't get released unless he's getting a little long in the tooth.

The Jets released Faneca. Why haven't the Texans done great at free agency. NFL teams, for the most part, are not stupid and do not let good players go to free agency unless the salary cap forces their hand. The Jets aren't stupid and Faneca can run block.

If the Texans offensive line sucked, Faneca might make more sense. The Texans offensive line is very good in pass protection, but have appeared to suck at run blocking.

I do find it odd at how chill Kubiak and Smith have been about the interior line and free safety, but they practically had airplanes flying over the draft saying "The Texans will pick RB and CB in the first two rounds". The Texans must be impressed with the learning curve of Studdard and Caldwell. Also, if I remember correctly...Winston stuck up for Meyers about getting pushed around by Jenkins saying he wasn't the one at fault. Pitts got cut...