KC Joyner Hearts Fred Bennett [ESPN the Mag]

[ArlingtonTexan]

I like the attempt to provide an "objective" messure by Joyner and Football Outsiders, but unlike baseball where a hit is a hit, all tackles and blocks are not the same thing and can't be treated as such.

That said, Bennett played well (better than I expected), but was not the "premier" corner in the league.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan

I like the attempt to provide an "objective" messure by Joyner and Football Outsiders, but unlike baseball where a hit is a hit, all tackles and blocks are not the same thing and can't be treated as such.

That said, Bennett played well (better than I expected), but was not the "premier" corner in the league.

When Deion Sanders was the best CB in the league, was he considered a hitter? No it about playing the ball, and I am sorry Dunta is does not appear to have the best ball skills, he is a super talent and I am not saying Bennett is better as a CB, just that they are different type players and both types can be successes.

[ArlingtonTexan]

Originally Posted by painekiller

When Deion Sanders was the best CB in the league, was he considered a hitter? No it about playing the ball, and I am sorry Dunta is does not appear to have the best ball skills, he is a super talent and I am not saying Bennett is better as a CB, just that they are different type players and both types can be successes.

Well Sanders in terms on his coverage skills is arguably the best ever. One thing that is difficult to measure in terms of corners is how many fewer times does a team even bother to throw your way, not just what you do when an attempt is thrown your way (which what Joyner did in this case).

Overall, I understand that they are different and think that is best that they are. Can't wait until Dunta proves healthy.

[Bigtinylittle]

I remember reading that Sanders used to play off receivers quite a bit sometimes, hoping to lure the QB into throwing to his man. That's scary good.

[NBT]

Still it's good to see some of these eastern writers start to pick up on how far the Texans have come along in just 2 short years.

I look for the pass defense, and the run defense to be much improved this year.

I think Bennet will continue to improve.

What I am wondering about now is whether or not Schaub is the QB we need to take us to that next level. Not knocking the kid, just need to see more than we were able to last year.

[dadmg]

For what its worth, the game charters at Football Outsiders are in agreement with Joyner on this. From the Texans chapter of their book Pro Football Prospectus 2008 (very interesting read, btw, although i liked the essays better last year):

Sometimes an injury - even to a key player - can have a silver lining. Such was the case with cornerback Dunta Robinson. The blow from his midseason injury was greatly softened by the wholly astonishing play of rookie Fred Bennett. Stepping into the starting lineup for Robinson in Week 9, Bennett not only outplayed the former first round pick he replaced - he outplayed most every corner in the league. Bennet led the league in Adjusted Yards per Pass and was second in Success Rate. He was at his best when covering the opposition's top reciever, allowing 4.0 Adjusted Yards per Pass with a 63 percent Success Rate (compared to 7.8 and 61 percent for Robinson, or 10.4 and 36 percent for Demarcus Faggins). He wasn't perfect - he needs to improve his tackling - but if Bennett's rookie performance is for real, and Robinson is able to return to full effectiveness in the second half of the season, the Texans will turn a historical weakness into a team strength.

To put this into more context, Bennet ranked 2nd in the NFL last year in their success rate statistic and first among corners (just ahead of Nnamdi Asomoghua, who was targeted so few times they had to change their minimum numbers...talk about a shutdown corner) and Dunta ranked 9th, up from 20th in 2006 and 41st in 2005.

Additional note: they also note that "C.C. Brown was not a favorite of our game charters, who noted his tendency to get lost in zone coverage and his poor tackling form in run support - the latter being his supposed strength."

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan

That said, Bennett played well (better than I expected), but was not the "premier" corner in the league.

well if the numbers are there to back it up what do you have against them? stats don't tell the whole story, sure enough...but there is reason why they are kept!

Originally Posted by NBT

What I am wondering about now is whether or not Schaub is the QB we need to take us to that next level. Not knocking the kid, just need to see more than we were able to last year.

how many games do you give before you decide?

Originally Posted by dadmg

For what its worth, the game charters at Football Outsiders are in agreement with Joyner on this. From the Texans chapter of their book Pro Football Prospectus 2008

link?

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by ArlingtonTexan

One thing that is difficult to measure in terms of corners is how many fewer times does a team even bother to throw your way, not just what you do when an attempt is thrown your way (which what Joyner did in this case).

FO also has stats on that, and our new addition Reeves was targeted an absurd 107 times last year and his success rate on those was only 47% (ranked 53rd in the league. And for the ragging they do on Bennett for run support, Reeves ranked 80th in the league with a paltry 17% success rate in run support. Robinson and Bennett were 25th and 29th with 55 and 54%. Faggins numbers in run support are very similar to Reeves (he ranked 78th) and the average Faggins tackle in run support occured 11.2 yards from the line of scrimmage (10.8 for Reeves.) Dunta was one of the tops in the league with his average stop coming 4.4 yards from the line of scrimmage, ranking him up there with some of the top linebackers.