Official Texans vs. Saints Game Thread, 8/22/2009

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Joshua

paine and barrett,

Thanks for the response to my questions. While I would be the first to admit that I'm no expert on D line schemes, I guess I had a different idea of what a more aggressive D versus a read-and-react one would look like. While being more aggressive does have the tradeoff that you will run yourself out of plays sometimes, I had never envisioned it as being a scheme where our linemen simply charge blindly upfield regardless of down and distance. Perhaps wrongly, I assumed that there would still be some recognition of the likelihood of pass versus run and the aggressiveness of their charge would be dictated accordingly. Clearly, this is nothing more than guesswork much of the time, but other teams seem to be able to do it. I guess my assumption was wrong, but I assumed that our more agressive approach was one reserved primarily for plays when we anticipated a pass, rather than our default mode in all scenarios.

Also, while I was at the game and haven't had the opportunity to rewatch it. I distinctly remember several running plays where Okoye and Okam just got walked backward completely out of the play. They didn't run past the play because of their aggression and stellar pass rush. Instead, I saw 2 guys who just got worked over at the point of attack. While it is too early to draw any major conclusions, I'm at least slightly concerned and I think our interior line play warrants a close eye. In this regard we're lucky, they won't get a better test than the one coming in Monday night.

I don't think we are really disagreeing all that much. I don't think the DL played a great game, I just think they did a large part of what they were asked. I think they were in the backfield often.

As for diagnosing when a play is a run or a pass, this is the strength of a read and react DL scheme. If you are firing off you are not doing much diagnosing. So we had gaps and lanes. And we have no LBs or Safetys whose strength is filling a whole. This makes the DL look very bad. As for other teams doing it, the only team I know of who plays with 2 DTs penetrating is the colts. And they get gouged by the run, but they play with the lead most of the time so it is not a big deal. And of course they have Bob Sanders in the box and they lose when they don't.

Most teams have at least one DT anchoring and eating blockers. We don't have that guy. Travis Johnson is far and away our best at it, and he is average (and missing). Okam, for all his size, is better at penetrating than at holding ground. deljuan shoots gaps. okoye shoots gaps. Cody shoots gaps.

We don't have a DT that plays the run. So I am not going to blame DL play but rather Bush or Rick Smith. More aggressive is not always better. I said this over and over last year when people wanted aggressive. You have to have the players for aggressive. Otherwise every D-coordinator in the NFL would be bringing pressure on every play. We don't have the players for it. Our LBs are too small to play unprotected. Demeco is great when protected by the DT and awful when the OL gets to him. Diles is small at SLB. And our Safeties are no force in the run game. And we did nothing at DT or at Safety this offseason.

We need to hope TJ and Cushing make a big impact, or we may be even worse on D than last year.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by barrett

If you are firing off you are not doing much diagnosing. So we had gaps and lanes.

I had this same argument last year. The problem with an across the board 1 gap system with your front seven is if one guy screws up it can lead to a huge play.

Most teams have at least one DT anchoring and eating blockers. We don't have that guy. Travis Johnson is far and away our best at it, and he is average (and missing). Okam, for all his size, is better at penetrating than at holding ground. deljuan shoots gaps. okoye shoots gaps. Cody shoots gaps.

Having that one space eating tackle can make the difference. It allows your other lineman to be more agressive. Okam is our best hope. He looked much improved...until the Saints game. I still think there's a chance he can provide a boost to the NT position.

More aggressive is not always better. I said this over and over last year when people wanted aggressive. You have to have the players for aggressive. Otherwise every D-coordinator in the NFL would be bringing pressure on every play.

I know people who talked about how we should use more agressice zone blitzing....and then bitched when we ran a zone blitz with Mario in coverage. The whole premise of the zone blitz is that it confuses the QB because he never knows who is rushing and who is going into coverage. If your going to do Zone blitz then Mario (really all of the lineman) have to drop into coverage from time to time or the element of surprise is gone. My point is that aggressive defense is one of those buzz words that people get caught up in without realizing the negatives.

Demeco is great when protected by the DT and awful when the OL gets to him.

Haven't noticed it as much this year yet...but I was really disappointed in Demeco's sloppy tackling last year. He missed a lot of tackles because he just lunged in the general direction of the ball carrier. Could have been a symptom of the injury I guess.

Diles is small at SLB.

That's what scares me. We supposedly want to do a lot of 4-3 under stuff where the SAM is up on the line and really needs to be a physical presence. Other than Cushing we don't have anyone who is built for this. If he misses a lot of time we'll have to adjust the defense...and that could keep us from building an identity on defense and executing the way we should.

We need to hope TJ and Cushing make a big impact, or we may be even worse on D than last year.

I agree...although I'm not sure we could be much worse. The key is stopping the run. If we can be decent against the run and force 3rd and longs on a more regular basis I actually feel pretty good about our ability to harass the QB.
Our defense needs to be aggressive to a degree...there's no point in not having Okoye(or most of our other DT's) shoot the gap. It's what he's best at. We need someone to step up at the other tackle who can really mix it up and clog the middle. Our only hope is TJ or Okam IMO....or another teams cast off.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by barrett

I don't think we are really disagreeing all that much. I don't think the DL played a great game, I just think they did a large part of what they were asked. I think they were in the backfield often.

As for diagnosing when a play is a run or a pass, this is the strength of a read and react DL scheme. If you are firing off you are not doing much diagnosing. So we had gaps and lanes. And we have no LBs or Safetys whose strength is filling a whole. This makes the DL look very bad. As for other teams doing it, the only team I know of who plays with 2 DTs penetrating is the colts. And they get gouged by the run, but they play with the lead most of the time so it is not a big deal. And of course they have Bob Sanders in the box and they lose when they don't.

Most teams have at least one DT anchoring and eating blockers. We don't have that guy. Travis Johnson is far and away our best at it, and he is average (and missing). Okam, for all his size, is better at penetrating than at holding ground. deljuan shoots gaps. okoye shoots gaps. Cody shoots gaps.

We don't have a DT that plays the run. So I am not going to blame DL play but rather Bush or Rick Smith. More aggressive is not always better. I said this over and over last year when people wanted aggressive. You have to have the players for aggressive. Otherwise every D-coordinator in the NFL would be bringing pressure on every play. We don't have the players for it. Our LBs are too small to play unprotected. Demeco is great when protected by the DT and awful when the OL gets to him. Diles is small at SLB. And our Safeties are no force in the run game. And we did nothing at DT or at Safety this offseason.

We need to hope TJ and Cushing make a big impact, or we may be even worse on D than last year.

Good points all.

I seem to recall hearing one of the coaches commenting one time that they didn't want the big, gap plugging DT, but wanted guys who could play sideline to sideline. Now, maybe this comment was just meant to inspire confidence in the guys we have but it always bugged me. For the life of me, I don't know why having a DT who can cover huge swaths of the field is a prerequisite. While I understand wanting athleticism, good teams have to stop the run and it almost always starts with a monster inside.

You're right about Demeco, or almost any other middle linebacker as well. Ray Lewis came way back to earth after the Ravens lost Siragusa and some of their other big guys up front. Then they drafted Ngata, and whaddayaknow, Ray Ray is all over the field again.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Good points all.

I seem to recall hearing one of the coaches commenting one time that they didn't want the big, gap plugging DT, but wanted guys who could play sideline to sideline. Now, maybe this comment was just meant to inspire confidence in the guys we have but it always bugged me. For the life of me, I don't know why having a DT who can cover huge swaths of the field is a prerequisite. While I understand wanting athleticism, good teams have to stop the run and it almost always starts with a monster inside.

You're right about Demeco, or almost any other middle linebacker as well. Ray Lewis came way back to earth after the Ravens lost Siragusa and some of their other big guys up front. Then they drafted Ngata, and whaddayaknow, Ray Ray is all over the field again.

Yep. most athletic sideline-to-sideline types at MLB struggle without DL protection. demeco is normal in this. That is why if we are going to shoot gaps with all of our DL I think we have the wrong personnel. It wastes Demeco. Plus we have no safety presence in the box. I mean our FS's biggest impact against the run was when he threw a great block to spring Mike Bell on his TD run.

Hopefully Cushing makes a difference just by providing size at the point of attack. And even if he can't, we have a defense built to put pressure on the QB with the front 4. We just have to play with a lead so teams don't stuff it down our throat. This was the Colts blueprint to one superbowl, so maybe we can see the playoffs with it.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Joshua

Then they drafted Ngata, and whaddayaknow, Ray Ray is all over the field again.

I honestly dunno if Ngata has been to a pro bowl, but no matter he's a tremendous talent and a very valuable addition and member of the Ravens D.
Actually, into the 4th year now after the 2006 Draft I'd put him in with Mario and Cutler as the Big 3 coming out of that Draft.

[Bigtinylittle]

Originally Posted by barrett

I don't think we are really disagreeing all that much. I don't think the DL played a great game, I just think they did a large part of what they were asked. I think they were in the backfield often.

As for diagnosing when a play is a run or a pass, this is the strength of a read and react DL scheme. If you are firing off you are not doing much diagnosing. So we had gaps and lanes. And we have no LBs or Safetys whose strength is filling a whole. This makes the DL look very bad. As for other teams doing it, the only team I know of who plays with 2 DTs penetrating is the colts. And they get gouged by the run, but they play with the lead most of the time so it is not a big deal. And of course they have Bob Sanders in the box and they lose when they don't.

Most teams have at least one DT anchoring and eating blockers. We don't have that guy. Travis Johnson is far and away our best at it, and he is average (and missing). Okam, for all his size, is better at penetrating than at holding ground. deljuan shoots gaps. okoye shoots gaps. Cody shoots gaps.

We don't have a DT that plays the run. So I am not going to blame DL play but rather Bush or Rick Smith. More aggressive is not always better. I said this over and over last year when people wanted aggressive. You have to have the players for aggressive. Otherwise every D-coordinator in the NFL would be bringing pressure on every play. We don't have the players for it. Our LBs are too small to play unprotected. Demeco is great when protected by the DT and awful when the OL gets to him. Diles is small at SLB. And our Safeties are no force in the run game. And we did nothing at DT or at Safety this offseason.

We need to hope TJ and Cushing make a big impact, or we may be even worse on D than last year.

I'm going to go ahead and nominate this for post of the week!