Owen Daniels Contract Negotiations

[superbowlbound]

I don't like this one bit. Sure, I'm definitely pleased that the tender's been signed, but regardless of who's got the right information, be it florio or mcclain, I don't understand how you can argue with that money, especially with the state of the CBA. I hope the Texans don't negotiate further, as far as the per-year average goes. To be perfectly honest, if you're going to turn down top 5 money at your position, you're a damn fool, and you deserve whatever negative things come of it. I would laugh my ass off if neither dunta nor owen got their deals done, both become/remain RFA's with the burning of the old CBA, and they lose a good 7 million each in the process, because their agents are f*cking stupid. according to last year's numbers, owen was, among TE's: 5th in receptions, 3rd in yards, 5th in ypc (min 40 receptions), 6th in 1st down % (same min), and tied for 3rd in fumbles. sounds like 4th highest paid TE in the sport is right where he should be. Get your head out of your ass and play some football.

[Keith]

Update from Owen via Facebook a little over an hour ago seems to counter the PFT story:

We're still working really hard to get something done. Hopefully we can make it happen soon.

If the Texans really did offer what these reports suggest, and assuming there is nothing funny with the per year averages (i.e. backloading the "guarantees" with some huge roster bonus in 2011 or something), then I'd think REAL hard before turning down the next offer if I were Daniels.

I hate commenting on this though because we don't know what's really happening with these negotiations. If you think you know just because you saw it reported on the chron or somewhere else, then in reality you only know an angle of it filtered through the lens of someone who may or may not trust and understand the info him/herself.

Just sayin'. I think I've said this a bunch already, but I am still skeptical that the Texans really had that huge offer to Dunta on the table. I could be wrong of course, but Dunta's agent has been a little quiet on the terms and we all know already that Rick Smith and the Texans know how to use the chron as their mouthpiece when they want to.

But if the reports are true, then these guys should sign. But we don't know all the facts other than that the teams and not the players hold all the cards in both of these negotiations.

Back to Daniels... unless he knows that a new CBA is coming, then he needs to know that he's screwed. That's why I would sign any legit offer I can get, and a top 3-5 offer is legit. Which is different than Dunta... he'll get almost $10mm as a f-tag w/o a deal vs. the $2mm or so OD gets with just his tender. Big difference, plus the situation is the same in 2010 without a CBA with Dunta as potential UFA, Daniels as RFA.

[Mike]

That quote from OD makes me breathe a bit easier. I hope they can get him and Demeco done before camp opens. Lance Z this AM said that OD and Dunta are represented by the same firm, so maybe...maybe I am looking for the silver lining that if they can get OD taken care of, that might make it a little easier for Dunta to get a deal done. With Demeco canning his agent that says he wants to get a deal done.

Hopefully both sides in all three cases understand the art of the negotiation and can come to reasonable concessions to make the deals happen.

[Keith]

As I was saying earlier today...

Originally Posted by Keith

I hate commenting on this though because we don't know what's really happening with these negotiations. If you think you know just because you saw it reported on the chron or somewhere else, then in reality you only know an angle of it filtered through the lens of someone who may or may not trust and understand the info him/herself.

The chron has an updated article on the situation, this time with quotes from Daniels' agent:

The Chronicle reported that the Texans' offer made would make Daniels the second-highest paid tight end in the league.

“I’ve read reports in the media about the contract and they are not accurate,” Herman said. “We didn’t have anything to do with those reports. I’m hoping we can have professional dialogue with Rick to get this done. I think the key to getting something done is not to go over the details in the media.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/6479538.html

So Daniels' camp is disclaiming ownership of the contract details link, and now later in that chron link above Smith says he wants to keep negotiations private. Soooo... typical negotiation stuff, meaning as fans we should be careful to jump to conclusions as long as both sides remain open to negotiation.

And if you want more blah blah on this, Kuharsky has a post at the worldwide.

[papabear]

I'm very skeptical of anything regarding contract amount rumors reported by the chron. Especially since Mcclain has responded to an email of mine about the cap that he didn't really understand how it all worked and that was impossible for someone not in the business to really understand it. I sent him here to Keith's cap page and told him that if a guy who runs a message board in his spare time can take the time to read the CBA and keep up with a cap page that maybe since his job is to cover the NFL he should at least put forth a little effort and try to figure it out. He didn't respond, but I doubt he was amused.

My point is that the chron either parrots what the team tells them just on their word, or is told what the contract offer actually is and doesn't understand it enough to give an accurate picture of what the offer really is.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by papabear

My point is that the chron either parrots what the team tells them just on their word, or is told what the contract offer actually is and doesn't understand it enough to give an accurate picture of what the offer really is.

Even Richard Justice doesn't believe what McClain reports in his own paper on Texans contract negotiations, so why should we?

[papabear]

Originally Posted by Keith

Even Richard Justice doesn't believe what McClain reports in his own paper on Texans contract negotiations, so why should we?

it's just hard for Justice to trust anyone because we are all soooo much dumber than him.

[edo783]

Originally Posted by Keith

So Daniels' camp is disclaiming ownership of the contract details link, and now later in that chron link above Smith says he wants to keep negotiations private. And if you want more blah blah on this, Kuharsky has a post at the worldwide.

See, now that is what makes me think the offer to Dunta is pretty darn close to what has been reported. The agent or someone would have come out and said it was horse hockey if in fact it wasn't reasonably close. Now in ODs case and possibly DRs, from what I gather, based on what I-Cak posted, they may all be squabbling over HOW the guaranteed money is to be paid. Keith would probably know this the best of anyone of us, but from what I can gather, a year or two ago the Texans moved to trying to make the contracts to where they paid the bulk of the guaranteed funds over a couple of years rather than in a big chunk at the start of the contract. I can see the agents wanting the big chunk up front so that if they get fired they at least got paid. I'm not sure if agent contracts work that way to where if they get fired they don't get paid the money in the next years or not. Actually from a player perspective it MIGHT be best for them to get it in multiple chunks from a tax perspective and naturally it is better for the team to spread and level the effects of the cash going out the door. The money is still guaranteed, just a different delivery pattern than what everyone is used to. From that sort of perspective, it does make it at least sort of comprehensible as to why two guys would be turning down deals that at least at first blush, are probably above where their play would/should place their value.

[kravix]

With so many reports about salary offers and salary demands flying around it is hard to belive any of it.

I will say that if OD really is holding out to be paid #1 instead of #4-6 as he should be getting then I would rather see him go. I dont know him personally, but he has never struck me as that kind of guy.

The fact that OD and Drob are both represented by the same agents, and all the crazyness that has gone on around these negotiations really concerns me that perhaps the agents are not on the up and up. If I remember correctly Demeco had the same guys and fired them to pick up the same agent as MW.

What if the Texans did offer #2 and the agents went to OD and gave him a different number, and the same with Drob. Is there anything the league could do after the fact to ensure that players and teams arent getting the run around from shady agents?

If, just if, any of the numbers that have come out for OD and Drob are true, and the Texans have said they offered top money to Drob, it may be possible that much of this is over structures rather than ammounts. We have a cap guru sitting in the Texans FO and it is possible that they are getting a little too cute with their contracts.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by kravix

With so many reports about salary offers and salary demands flying around it is hard to belive any of it.

I will say that if OD really is holding out to be paid #1 instead of #4-6 as he should be getting then I would rather see him go. I dont know him personally, but he has never struck me as that kind of guy.

The fact that OD and Drob are both represented by the same agents, and all the crazyness that has gone on around these negotiations really concerns me that perhaps the agents are not on the up and up. If I remember correctly Demeco had the same guys and fired them to pick up the same agent as MW.

What if the Texans did offer #2 and the agents went to OD and gave him a different number, and the same with Drob. Is there anything the league could do after the fact to ensure that players and teams arent getting the run around from shady agents?

If, just if, any of the numbers that have come out for OD and Drob are true, and the Texans have said they offered top money to Drob, it may be possible that much of this is over structures rather than ammounts. We have a cap guru sitting in the Texans FO and it is possible that they are getting a little too cute with their contracts.

Yeah, much of the discussion probably has to do with bonus triggers, options, etc... Not only is the total amount of a contract a bogus number but often, so is the guaranteed money and even the years of the contract. They are so much more complicated than we make them out to be.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by kravix

The fact that OD and Drob are both represented by the same agents, and all the crazyness that has gone on around these negotiations really concerns me that perhaps the agents are not on the up and up. If I remember correctly Demeco had the same guys and fired them to pick up the same agent as MW.

Dunta is repressented by Jason Chayut ,and Owen's agents are Alan Herman and David Butz.

Not sure where Lance came up with they have the same agent.

[edo783]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Dunta is repressented by Jason Chayut ,and Owen's agents are Alan Herman and David Butz.

Not sure where Lance came up with they have the same agent.

I think he said "Agent Group". Given that, these guys might be from the same firm, just different agents, but operating on some sort of group think. Not sure if that is it or not, just tossing it out there.

[barrett]

None of us have any idea on any of this. Nothing goes to the media on either side without an agenda. Not to mention the complexity of these contracts. I bet you could show most of us the actual contract, and we still wouldn't know what a guy was paid.

All these numbers are make believe and half the time are more about making an agent look good for his player than about the player getting paid. Its millions of dollars flying around with a dozen lawyers involved, and everybody is out to screw the next guy.

I think with any hold out you just have to wait and see. And even when the dust settles, we'll still probably never know half of the truth.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by edo783

I think he said "Agent Group". Given that, these guys might be from the same firm, just different agents, but operating on some sort of group think. Not sure if that is it or not, just tossing it out there.

Yes, all three are agents from the firm Sportstars, Inc.

btw, Owen had this to say on Monday night via Facebook:

I'm still hopeful we can get a long term deal done. I'm a reasonable person and will absolutely accept a fair deal. The monetary value of the deal means less to me than the fairness of it. (i.e. to me a te deal that is two years old is no longer relevant.)