Are we missing something?

[painekiller]

The last two day's Gary Kubiak has talked about the 80 man roster and it's limits on the official site. During the owners meeting near the draft Casserly was blasting the owners for the short sightedness of the current roster limits.

This winter the owners did away with the European spring league, not a huge deal on it's face, many teams where not sending real players there and where wasting the opportunity to improve young players. But that league also included roster exemptions for the spring players through out training camp.

This allowed coaches to basically have practice fodder to burn reps. Now that is gone. IIRC we had 8 or 9 players with exemptions last year. That is a lot of guys.

Kubiak is pointing out if a CB or two or three go down, then you can burn out your other guys in quick fashion.

Right now we have 8 guys that will be gone before camp starts. Who?

[kravix]

Very very hard.

I went through the roster and here is my first guess at the pre TC cuts.

Roberson, Derrick CB
Powell, Eric DE
Long, Gabe DT
Cook, Jameel FB
Coley, Kevis LB
Richardson, Marcus LB
McCoy, LeRon WR
Okobi, Chukky C

That should get us to 80. Cook is the only one that I could really make a case for over the other obvious TC fodder.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by kravix

Very very hard.

I went through the roster and here is my first guess at the pre TC cuts.

Roberson, Derrick CB
Powell, Eric DE
Long, Gabe DT
Cook, Jameel FB
Coley, Kevis LB
Richardson, Marcus LB
McCoy, LeRon WR
Okobi, Chukky C

That should get us to 80. Cook is the only one that I could really make a case for over the other obvious TC fodder.

Chukky has a hurt neck and may get an exemption, he is currently on the injuried list.

» 5/22/2008 Signed WR Tim Carter and WR Mark Simmons. Released RB Arliss Beach. Placed C Chukky Okobi on the reserve/injured list.

I see Abbate cut before Cook, they are giving him press time and all this week, kind of way to send him off with some positive press to help him catch on elsewhere. Not that I want Cook over Abbate, Cook has been over paid from the start and has not done much.

Going down your list shows mne how hard this off season will be. Finally!

[Keith]

Originally Posted by kravix

Roberson, Derrick CB
Powell, Eric DE
Long, Gabe DT
Cook, Jameel FB
Coley, Kevis LB
Richardson, Marcus LB
McCoy, LeRon WR
Okobi, Chukky C

Anyone go to the All-Access event at Reliant Stadium last night? I did, and I usually make a point to go around and see all the players there I can. I re-injured my ankle last night though and had a hard time getting around, so I didn't quite make it around like I wanted.

The point being that I think it would be interesting if some of these guys weren't there. Pretty much every player is on hand for this event, but I don't recall seeing several of those listed above (again, I missed seeing many of those signing in the second half of the session due to injury).

I did see Marcus Richardson, but I missed Jameel Cook. Jameel is of course the most notable name on your list above, and I think because of that he at least gets the camp invite unless there is some injury problem I am forgetting.

Cutting Cook, btw, would save the team from paying his $765k salary. There would be dead money totaling $660k from the bonus prorate left on the final three years of his contract, but as a June 1 cut, the team could eat just $220k this year and $440 in 2009 if they want.

also, Derrick Roberson was already cut to make room for a new center, Fenton.

[kravix]

Thanks Kieth. I didnt see aything about the cuts. I would just put Fenton in the same spot though, I already have them taking three C to camp. I dont know much about Fenton though so he could beat out Eslinger.

If Chukky is on the pup he counts towards the limit, if he is on IR ( I didnt think you could IR until TC) then he doesnt. I would think that they would cut him and pay the settlement if he will count as a roster spot, especially with how concerned Kubes seems with the reduced roster.

I really dont think that Kubes will take 3 FB's to camp. It could be like painkiller said and Abbate is getting camera time to help him out. It really will come down to who is a better ST player. I like Abbate to win the spot though. He was a feel good story last year, and even though he is a project, the fact that the coaches saw enough in him to even start to attempt it last year says alot for an UDFA. I think his upside and youth will win out.

I may look over the roster again today and do a revised list. That one was semi shoot from the hip, and I didnt analyze every position and their numbers completely.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by kravix

I really dont think that Kubes will take 3 FB's to camp.

I think he will.

Kubes, like most if not all coaches, wants to run at least three full reps during the first couple weeks of training camp (like a 3-deep roster, the starters, then the backups, then the third stringers). Early in camp there are sometimes four groups. It kinda screws up the practice rotations if you are short someone, like a third FB.

Now, Kubiak I think said after an OTA earlier this month that he isn't considering Taylor at FB, but that is the caveat here. If he were to change his mind, then I could see the team bringing one less "true" FB into camp.

Also, I don't think it's a given that the team only has three centers in camp, especially since there will be (at least) four QBs on the roster when camp opens.

[papabear]

I just can't believe that the NFL hasn't upped the roster limits now that teams don't have the NFL Europe exemptions. I keep thinking they would change that soon....but I guess it's not happening.

Chances are the 85th guy on the roster is not making the team, but just from the standpoint of having plenty of bodies to spread the reps around I think it might be a good idea to up the limit.

[Bigtinylittle]

If Kubiak thinks that Abbate is as good as Cook, or that with some more coaching up and weight work he will be as good as Cook, then I think we can wave goodbye to Cook.

One of the nice things about not going out and spending money on top-tier free agents is that it allows a team the luxury of cutting someone who will cost dead money. The team eats the dead money in order to get younger, lower priced players who hopefully will get better. I think this is the way Kubiak and Smith think, and I like it. They look at the long term rather than the short term.

On the other hand, Abbate in Kubiak's mind may not have the makings of an NFL fullback. In that case, we'll keep on overpaying Cook until either his contract runs out or we find a replacement. The one thing that is for sure is that he is being overpaid.

[NBT]

I don't know. I don't think so. If Cook doesn't have anymore production than he did last year, Kubiak would be better off cutting him and letting someone like Abate have a few more reps.

[edo783]

I suspect that neither Abate nor Cook make the final 53. I have a feeling we will go with Taylor taking up the second FB spot as a sort of hybred FB/RB and that the RB combo will be Green, Brown & Slaton, Walker to the PS. I'm not sure if Abate has any PS time left, but that might be the spot for him if he makes it at all.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by edo783

I have a feeling we will go with Taylor taking up the second FB spot as a sort of hybred FB/RB and that the RB combo will be Green, Brown & Slaton,

Wow! That is completly against what Kubiak has said in the post OTA videos. He stated Taylor is a RB not a FB and would not be getting FB reps.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Wow! That is completly against what Kubiak has said in the post OTA videos. He stated Taylor is a RB not a FB and would not be getting FB reps.

I remember that interview from Kubiak, and thinking that he meant for right now...although I got the imprsession from Kubiak that once actual training camp started that could change.

I think after last year Kubiak wants to have plenty extra gas in the RB tank. If taylor can play FB too that makes it easier to carry an extra running back.

[kravix]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Wow! That is completly against what Kubiak has said in the post OTA videos. He stated Taylor is a RB not a FB and would not be getting FB reps.

I found it odd that he said that. Last year he seemed excited to give Taylor reps at FB and RB.

Originally Posted by papabear

I remember that interview from Kubiak, and thinking that he meant for right now...although I got the imprsession from Kubiak that once actual training camp started that could change.

I think after last year Kubiak wants to have plenty extra gas in the RB tank. If taylor can play FB too that makes it easier to carry an extra running back.

I got the vibe that Taylor was a RB and that was it. Not to say he wont be taking reps there at TC once its all said and done. Especially if they only carry 2 FB to TC with them.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by kravix

I found it odd that he said that. Last year he seemed excited to give Taylor reps at FB and RB.



I got the vibe that Taylor was a RB and that was it. Not to say he wont be taking reps there at TC once its all said and done. Especially if they only carry 2 FB to TC with them.

Last year he thought Green was going to play 16 games. Taylor is one of the two best backs on this team right now and should be getting more carries as we get to end of the season.

Yea, Yea, I know he has not proved it over a full season, but the guy has size and speed, a lethal combo.

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Last year he thought Green was going to play 16 games. Taylor is one of the two best backs on this team right now and should be getting more carries as we get to end of the season.

Yea, Yea, I know he has not proved it over a full season, but the guy has size and speed, a lethal combo.

and muscles out the wazoo. i got his autograph at the all-access and wished him good health but man, that is one pumped dude.

given vonta leach's health, and no reason to not count on it, keeping taylor on the roster as a FB for a short cut to have an extra RB is fine by me. as long as taylor gets some carries...

how do you guys think kubiak is going to use the RB stable? assuming ahman green, chris brown, steve slaton and chris taylor are the RBs.

it will be interesting to see if he just keeps them rotating and ends up giving all 4 of them about 7 carries each? or maybe solely using slaton on 3rd downs so everyone else would end up with a few more? or maybe he gives one guy 15 and everyone else 5? rides the hot feet? rides the uninjured feet? starts who he thinks will dominate a particular defense? i think he starts ahman early in the year, gives him about 10-15 carries and everyone else picks up the slack until ahman starts to wear down (probably 3 or 4 games at the most) then switches to chris brown and rides him in the same fashion for a few games. then taylor...then...ron dayne after we resign him midway through the year!

[kravix]

Originally Posted by KJ3

how do you guys think kubiak is going to use the RB stable? assuming ahman green, chris brown, steve slaton and chris taylor are the RBs.

it will be interesting to see if he just keeps them rotating and ends up giving all 4 of them about 7 carries each? or maybe solely using slaton on 3rd downs so everyone else would end up with a few more? or maybe he gives one guy 15 and everyone else 5? rides the hot feet? rides the uninjured feet? starts who he thinks will dominate a particular defense? i think he starts ahman early in the year, gives him about 10-15 carries and everyone else picks up the slack until ahman starts to wear down (probably 3 or 4 games at the most) then switches to chris brown and rides him in the same fashion for a few games. then taylor...then...ron dayne after we resign him midway through the year!

Resigning Dayne half way through the year wouldnt suprise me at all if Green or Brown go down. I was very suprised we let him go this year, considering his production last year. He has had durability issues though and starts very slow.

I would have to agree that we see a committee running game this year. I doubt that it will be a three way split in games though. I see Green starting the season with 15-20 carries a game and the rest going to Brown/Slaton. As the season wears on Green will probably get 12-16 carries with more going to the #2 guy. Barring injury, Green gets the start all season.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by KJ3

how do you guys think kubiak is going to use the RB stable? assuming ahman green, chris brown, steve slaton and chris taylor are the RBs.

I think Kubiak would like to maybe have Green and Brown alternate series...or maybe have brown play every third series. Initially I don't think that Slaton will see more than a handful of snaps a game. Assuming Taylor(or Walker) can even make the team they would be odd man out and might not even be active on Sundays.

Injuries change everything. As of now there's no reason to assume that Green and Brown don't get the bulk of the work as long as they are healthy. The youngsters will likely play an increasing role later in the season. I don't see slaton as being viewed as anything more than a situational guy by the coaches....at least for now.

[KJ3]

Originally Posted by kravix

Resigning Dayne half way through the year wouldnt suprise me at all if Green or Brown go down. I was very suprised we let him go this year, considering his production last year. He has had durability issues though and starts very slow.

works on so many levels....

Originally Posted by papabear

I think Kubiak would like to maybe have Green and Brown alternate series...or maybe have brown play every third series. Initially I don't think that Slaton will see more than a handful of snaps a game. Assuming Taylor(or Walker) can even make the team they would be odd man out and might not even be active on Sundays.

Injuries change everything. As of now there's no reason to assume that Green and Brown don't get the bulk of the work as long as they are healthy. The youngsters will likely play an increasing role later in the season. I don't see slaton as being viewed as anything more than a situational guy by the coaches....at least for now.

yea, i suppose you're right. i'm assuming green or brown or both break like crayons at some point this season. not that i want that to happen or anything...but this stable doesn't look to be running one guy for a full healthy season.

[painekiller]

I think most games will only 3 RB active, almost never will we have 4 active RBs, so the 7 carries each is probably out.

Even though I would rather see Green as the change up back, thus saving wear and tear on him, think the combo of Green and Brown will be a the main feature until they get hurt. As to how they use them during a game, similar to the way they did last year. Green will be the 1st half and maybe part of the 3rd and Brown will come in to be the clock eater. As one gets hurts Taylor will get more carries.

I do not expect to much of the rookie before mid season due to blitz pickups.

[kravix]

In case anyone missed it. From HT.com

6/2/2008 Reached an injury settlement with C Chukky Okobi.