At The Combine

[Roy P]

I figured why not start a thread about what's going on in Indy.

Today's top stories...

1. Michael Crabtree - My highest rated player has a foot problem that needs surgery (like Jonathan Stewart) and will not be able to run before the draft. Could he really slip to #15?

2. Andre Smith - Told everyone that he would not bench yesterday because he is not in shape and has not prepared. Today, he was not in the building and nobody knew where he was. His agent took the bullet saying that it was his fault that he didn't tell everyone that his client was leaving for Atlanta to work out today in preparation of his Pro Day. He's not on my draft board and this only reinforces my doubts about his maturity.

3. Jason Smith - Probably the #1 pick in the draft, we have no shot at him.

4. TE Jared Cook is going to be going up on my draft board. He ran a 4.42 today and looks like a weapon. TE Shawn Nelson will also be climbing.

5. C Eric wood improved his stock.


edit - This just in...Crabtree will now run at his Pro Day

[dalemurphy]

What about this tackle from Nebraska: Murtha... he ran in the 4.8s and looked pretty darn good from what I saw. Do you think he'd make some sense for us as a backup/project at guard perhaps in the 3rd round, and, would he be there?

[Roy P]

Murtha is a 6-7th round prospect. He played in the Texas vs. The Nation game. Don't get too carried away with measurables. He will be lucky to make a roster in the NFL. Today's measurables probably means that he will be given a shot.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Roy P

4. TE Jared Cook is going to be going up on my draft board. He ran a 4.42 today and looks like a weapon. TE Shawn Nelson will also be climbing.

Cook is now a 2nd round pick and Nelson is now a 3rd round pick in my book. I realize that O.D. is on our roster and we don't need another pass-catching TE, but I just can't help myself. Also, these guys are 6' 5" and would be big targets in the Red Zone.

The official 40s for these guys were 4.50 and 4.56 accoding the NFL Network. Their other measurables were also pretty impressive.

Cook - 23 Reps, 41" Vert, 10' 3" Jump
Nelson - 33" Vert, 9' 7" Jump, 6.96 Cone

[idymoe]

I know you guys probably get bored with me posting about BSU guys, but I was shocked when Ian Johnson weighed in at 212 and threw up 26 reps on the bench. I think he was about 195 his senior year. I thought he would run in the mid 4.4's and he did 4.46. The surprise to me was that was good enough for second best among running backs. I don't see why that wouldn't get him drafted, now. His positives have always been his patience as a runner, vision and deceptive change of speeds. The knocks have been his size and not blazing speed. So now he's added muscle and strength and ran one one-hundredth slower than the best time for running backs.

Peerman and Sheets helped themselves, also. I don't know how far they move up. Johnson and Sheets aren't even supposed to be drafted on some mocks. I don't think any of the top rated backs hurt themselves today, there just weren't any burners this year like Chris Johnson.

Gartrell Johnson's thighs are freaking huge. (thank you mr. obvious) He ran a 4.71, which I think is fine for the load he brings. I thought Jeremiah Johnson would run faster than his 4.57. Well, I guess that covers the Johnsons.

Anyone see anything they weren't expecting with the running backs?

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Murtha is a 6-7th round prospect. He played in the Texas vs. The Nation game. Don't get too carried away with measurables. He will be lucky to make a roster in the NFL. Today's measurables probably means that he will be given a shot.

Best 20-yard shuttle time (4.34) & 3-cone drill (7.06) along with top 40 time for OLineman. Athletically he's obviously highly qualified for ZB system.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by idymoe

Gartrell Johnson's thighs are freaking huge. (thank you mr. obvious) He ran a 4.71, which I think is fine for the load he brings.

And his second attempt was even slower at 4.77, with the official time maybe not breaking 4.8 ? I say good deal, maybe he slips even lower than the third round but I dunno if I'd want to risk it ?

[idymoe]

I think 4.71 is official. I'm getting times at Football's Future. Ian Johnson's unofficial times were 4.38 and 4.45 and they have his time at 4.46. It is sad you can't go to the official NFL site and easily find all the official results.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by idymoe

I think 4.71 is official. I'm getting times at Football's Future. Ian Johnson's unofficial times were 4.38 and 4.45 and they have his time at 4.46. It is sad you can't go to the official NFL site and easily find all the official results.

You mean like here?

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers

Or do you mean official results for EVERY player?

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Best 20-yard shuttle time (4.34) & 3-cone drill (7.06) along with top 40 time for OLineman. Athletically he's obviously highly qualified for ZB system.

Yeah, sort of like Adam Koets or Brandon Frye.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Yeah, sort of like Adam Koets or Brandon Frye.

We're going to regret letting Brandon Frye get away. I thought he looked very good in the preseason last year. I thought it was a big mistake to keep Studdard on the roster and let him go to the practice squad. On the other hand, there is the slight possibility that Alex Gibbs is better at evaluating NFL Oline talent than I am. I guess time will tell.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

We're going to regret letting Brandon Frye get away. I thought he looked very good in the preseason last year. I thought it was a big mistake to keep Studdard on the roster and let him go to the practice squad. On the other hand, there is the slight possibility that Alex Gibbs is better at evaluating NFL Oline talent than I am. I guess time will tell.

You're forgetting that Studdard badysat Kubiaks kids and his father was Kubiaks buddy. That was his key to making the roster because he certainly wasn't a player qualified to play in the Texans' system they were running under Gibbs.
And was there really that much difference between Frye and Duane Brown ? Well actually I guess there was. It was the investment involved - one was a first-rounder and the other a fifth-rounder.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

We're going to regret letting Brandon Frye get away. I thought he looked very good in the preseason last year. I thought it was a big mistake to keep Studdard on the roster and let him go to the practice squad. On the other hand, there is the slight possibility that Alex Gibbs is better at evaluating NFL Oline talent than I am. I guess time will tell.

You saw it the way I saw it. I was on the front row for many of the one on one drills during the summer and Studdard showed no feet. While Frye showed some ability.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by idymoe

I think 4.71 is official. I'm getting times at Football's Future. Ian Johnson's unofficial times were 4.38 and 4.45 and they have his time at 4.46. It is sad you can't go to the official NFL site and easily find all the official results.

Wow, I did not see that one coming. Johnson does not play up to his times.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by painekiller

You saw it the way I saw it. I was on the front row for many of the one on one drills during the summer and Studdard showed no feet. While Frye showed some ability.

It was a lot of fun to watch the tackle play in the second half of our preseason games: Butler and Frye both looked really good, I thought. I was very disappointed when I saw Frye didn't make the roster. I would have had him on the roster ahead of Studdard and Salaam. People over at texanstalk.com raked me over the coals for those comments in August and September.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Wow, I did not see that one coming. Johnson does not play up to his times.

What always really struck me about Johnson was his patience in waiting for the play to develop, but for me the knock is that he is not agile, by that I mean he is slow footed, despite his 40 time.

I like him but I don't see alot of pro potential there.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Wow, I did not see that one coming. Johnson does not play up to his times.

Well, I am going to put Johnson and Glen Coffee on my draft board. I was sitting on the fence, but after today, they look like good 4th round RBs.

I will have to say that Knowshon Moreno sort of dissapointed me a bit. While it was nice to see him bulk up to 217lbs, I thought for sure that he was a sub 4.6 player. The Cone and Shuttle was where I wanted, but not the long speed. In fact, I'm moving Donald Brown up over Knowshon as my top RB.

Shonn Greene and Rashad Jennings were a lot slower than I was expecting. Jennings 1st unofficial time of 4.42 was so much faster than his 2nd 4.6 that they asked him to run a 3rd time (4.62) so they could determine which was the anomoly.

I'm still scratching my head on RB James Davis and WR Jeremy Maclin. Their unofficial times were quicker than the official times, because they aren't on the leader boards. The slowest official RB time was 4.59 (Beannie Wells) while the slowest official WR time was 4.44 (Kenny McKinley). Since neither are on the list, I suppose that means that their times were even slower, officially. Unofficially, Davis - 4.49 & Maclin - 4.40.

Value at the RB position may come from a guy like Andre Brown, Cedric Peerman, Kory Sheets, or Javaris Williams. While Brown and Moreno are more complete, we may only be looking for a compliment to Slaton that can take some carries and convert short yardage.

The WRs were fast, but the only late round slot/KR/PR that I'm interested in is Mike Thomas. Heyward-Bey, Britt, Mike Wallace, Underwood, and Robiskie are tempting, but I've got bigger fish to fry. I simply don't have a good feel for Johnny Knox, but I'm sure somebody will give him a shot.

At QB, JP Wilson was solid. Stephen McGee flashed. Currently, I'm not optimistic that anyone will be itching to trade up to #15 for Mark Sanchez. I can't imagine any scenario in which Stafford falls out of the top 5.

I was impressed by the Bench numbers of some DL/LB players. T. Taylor at 37, Veikune - 35 (they test for steroids at the Combine), Ziggy Hood - 34, Raji - 33, Orakpo - 31, Cushing - 30 (see Veikune), Freeman - 30, McKillop & McKenzie - 27, Curry - 25, and my sleeper Lee Robinson - 24.

[idymoe]

Roy, yes I meant for every player. They have the information. Why not make it available to the geeks like us that pay their salaries. Seriously, if there weren't such a large fan base for pro football, a guy being miffed at only being guaranteed 10 million for one year would be unthinkable. I know there are fans everywhere that have some regional guy at the combine that they would like to know how he did, even if he weren't in the top performers.

PK, about Ian Johnson. I've watched about 90 percent of Ian Johnson's games, and he played a lot as a freshman. You say he doesn't play up to his speed, but how do you think he racked up all those yards and touchdowns. I know when you watch him, he doesn't look all that fast. He has always been a very patient runner, waiting for the blocks to develop. He has had many long runs in his career. I have seen a lot of these runs where I thought someone had the angle on him and Johnson just has a little left and runs past the guy. It's just surprising, because you don't see that top speed unless he is into the secondary. He's not really a juker and he doesn't run over guys, although he does break tackles because defenders don't end up with the angle on him they think they had. I am much more surprised by the muscle he has put on. He is a great guy, too. After the Fiesta Bowl, he had just about rock star status around Boise. This last year, he asked to play special teams and was an impact player, blocking a couple of punts. His carries were down significantly his junior and senior year, because of some really fast underclassmen. He never complained, just tried to do everything he possibly could to help the team.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by idymoe

PK, about Ian Johnson. I've watched about 90 percent of Ian Johnson's games, and he played a lot as a freshman. You say he doesn't play up to his speed, but how do you think he racked up all those yards and touchdowns.

Even Charles Davis commented he did not see that coming. At the Shrine Game he could not get to the edge, you may call that patience, but that is not what it looked like to me.

I will admit i have not watched most of his games, that turf hurts my eyes, and he is a feel good story. Also he seems like a 1st class young man, but I will pass on him.

I do like his knitted caps.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Yeah, sort of like Adam Koets or Brandon Frye.

I thought you lived by those 3-cone & shuttle times in rating the potential of OLineman for the ZBS ?