Texans FA's

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Joshua

I think it was LZ who tweeted that the Texans are in cap hell right now. What I don't understand is how.

Complicating the cap situation for 2012 is that the Texans probably expected the cap to increase far more than it did over 2011. Prior to the new CBA, I remember thinking a few years ago that I thought the 2012 cap would be closer to $140 million by this point.

The Texans never thought it would be that high this year, but it only jumped less than a half million. That's got to be less than they thought.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Keith

Complicating the cap situation for 2012 is that the Texans probably expected the cap to increase far more than it did over 2011. Prior to the new CBA, I remember thinking a few years ago that I thought the 2012 cap would be closer to $140 million by this point.

The Texans never thought it would be that high this year, but it only jumped less than a half million. That's got to be less than they thought.

Admittedly, my cap knowledge is limited to say the least. However, I seem to recall it being known once the new CBA was completed that the cap would be fairly stagnant the first 2 years into the deal; i.e., 2011 and 2012. I may not be remembering this correctly though.

In any event, my biggest complaint is that of our top 12 players (or at least, my rough estimation of them), about half are underpaid, 2 are free agents this year and 3 are free agents next year. How can you be in cap hell when virtually all of your top players are on their rookie contracts, free agents or soon-to-be free agents?

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Joshua

How can you be in cap hell when virtually all of your top players are on their rookie contracts, free agents or soon-to-be free agents?

Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Keith

Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now.

I get the arithmetic. And I'm not trying to bust your chops and I appreciate your responses. My point is just that I think they have potentially mismanaged the cap if half their top 12 players are underpaid yet we're still too cap strapped to even attempt to retain the few who are reaching free agency.

Every team in the league deals with the same cap. Apparently, we're in one of the worst cap shapes of any team in the league despite the bargains we're currently enjoying with Brown, Watt, Barwin, Reed, Cushing, Quin, etc.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Joshua

I get the arithmetic. And I'm not trying to bust your chops and I appreciate your responses. My point is just that I think they have potentially mismanaged the cap if half their top 12 players are underpaid yet we're still too cap strapped to even attempt to retain the few who are reaching free agency.

Every team in the league deals with the same cap. Apparently, we're in one of the worst cap shapes of any team in the league despite the bargains we're currently enjoying with Brown, Watt, Barwin, Reed, Cushing, Quin, etc.

So two points... first, who's underpaid? Just the guys still playing their rookie contracts? That's pretty good actually. And second, pity the Texans for having so many of their draft picks live up to and exceed their draft expectations. It's a good problem to have.

So how have they mismanaged the cap? Compared to the latter half of the Casserly years, this administration has done really well. The Texans just have a lot of players on the payroll who are actually earning what they are getting paid. It finally paid off in the win column last season as well.

Just checked, the sky is not falling.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Keith

So two points... first, who's underpaid? Just the guys still playing their rookie contracts? That's pretty good actually. And second, pity the Texans for having so many of their draft picks live up to and exceed their draft expectations. It's a good problem to have.

So how have they mismanaged the cap? Compared to the latter half of the Casserly years, this administration has done really well. The Texans just have a lot of players on the payroll who are actually earning what they are getting paid. It finally paid off in the win column last season as well.

Just checked, the sky is not falling.

Exactly. When you successfully create one of the most talented rosters, you are going to have one of the most expensive. It is why teams like Indy and NE have bled talent for years. It is far harder to stay talented than to get talented.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by Keith

So two points... first, who's underpaid? Just the guys still playing their rookie contracts? That's pretty good actually. And second, pity the Texans for having so many of their draft picks live up to and exceed their draft expectations. It's a good problem to have.

So how have they mismanaged the cap? Compared to the latter half of the Casserly years, this administration has done really well. The Texans just have a lot of players on the payroll who are actually earning what they are getting paid. It finally paid off in the win column last season as well.

Just checked, the sky is not falling.

First, I, of course, agree that having your rookies work out is great and I never suggested otherwise (something I pretty sure you understood). However, if all of your best players are your draft picks and you're currently getting them at a discount, this should suggest that you should not be one of the worst cap teams in the league. A healthy cap should be one of the fruits of your labors.

As for who is underpaid, as I said above, I think about half of our top 12 players are underpaid, several vastly so. When half of your best 12 players are underpaid and several other important pieces are set to be free agents shortly and you're up against the cap, I think that suggests a problem. Your mileage may vary.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Joshua

First, I, of course, agree that having your rookies work out is great and I never suggested otherwise (something I pretty sure you understood). However, if all of your best players are your draft picks and you're currently getting them at a discount, this should suggest that you should not be one of the worst cap teams in the league. A healthy cap should be one of the fruits of your labors.

As for who is underpaid, as I said above, I think about half of our top 12 players are underpaid, several vastly so. When half of your best 12 players are underpaid and several other important pieces are set to be free agents shortly and you're up against the cap, I think that suggests a problem. Your mileage may vary.

I think the point missed here is that the Texans now have MORE than a typical number of players that are deserving of what they are paid (or to your point, what they ought to be paid soon).

I mean, have the Texans had such an abundance of talent in which we could easily rattle off their best 12 players before? The Texans have one of the deepest rosters in the entire league now. "Next man up" wasn't just a cool saying last season.

A healthy cap is NOT one of the fruits of your labors. In fact, making difficult cap-related decisions is such a fruit of these labors (or instead maybe a vegetable in this analogy). Good, nay great, teams have had to say goodbye to their talent bearing these fruits.

[WMH]

In all seriousness, I truly believe that the Texans have an offer on the table for Mario, if/when he signs with Buffalo, these funds will be immediately diverted to Myers. Not saying I agree with thier priority, but I think that was what they are thinking.

The problem with all of this is timing. As we saw last year, Smith was quick to dump the Aso chase and deal with JJoe. IMO, we are in a better spot this year, as Myers likely wants to return. Hopefully, it will work out like this.

My glass is still half full......for now.

[Keith]

My glass sits half full at the moment too. My only question is if the Texans know that the Bills want to fork over a $100M deal to Mario, I just am not sure if I'd be as willing to pay for it.

That they prioritize pass rush over all else, great.
That they prioritize Myers over Winston, great.
That they haven't made a "splash" yet in UFA, great.

Mostly my other question is just why both Jacoby and Walter are both still on the roster at their current cap figures. Neither is a #2 WR, yet both are paid at or near that amount.

I'd also try to get DeMeco to renegotiate/restructure. His replacements, be they Dobbins or Sharpton, seem capable, though I do admit they probably lack the leadership that DeMeco provides. Just wonder how important his leadership still is given what the unit achieved last season.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Keith

My glass sits half full at the moment too. My only question is if the Texans know that the Bills want to fork over a $100M deal to Mario, I just am not sure if I'd be as willing to pay for it.

That they prioritize pass rush over all else, great.
That they prioritize Myers over Winston, great.
That they haven't made a "splash" yet in UFA, great.

Mostly my other question is just why both Jacoby and Walter are both still on the roster at their current cap figures. Neither is a #2 WR, yet both are paid at or near that amount.

I'd also try to get DeMeco to renegotiate/restructure. His replacements, be they Dobbins or Sharpton, seem capable, though I do admit they probably lack the leadership that DeMeco provides. Just wonder how important his leadership still is given what the unit achieved last season.

Those would be my 2 questions too. I cannot imagine JJ surviving and certainly cannot understand dumping a very reliable Winston instead of the flaky JJ.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by Keith

My glass sits half full at the moment too. My only question is if the Texans know that the Bills want to fork over a $100M deal to Mario, I just am not sure if I'd be as willing to pay for it.

That they prioritize pass rush over all else, great.
That they prioritize Myers over Winston, great.
That they haven't made a "splash" yet in UFA, great.

Mostly my other question is just why both Jacoby and Walter are both still on the roster at their current cap figures. Neither is a #2 WR, yet both are paid at or near that amount.

I'd also try to get DeMeco to renegotiate/restructure. His replacements, be they Dobbins or Sharpton, seem capable, though I do admit they probably lack the leadership that DeMeco provides. Just wonder how important his leadership still is given what the unit achieved last season.

It could be that is all part of thier "plan" for if/when they need the space. Why push funds around unless you need to?

Maybe...I dunno. Just thinking outloud in a somewhat positive manner.

[WMH]

[QUOTE=Keith;29626]Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now. [QUOTE]

Only problem with this one is Schaub is not healthy. That is a huge risk. I know we've all heard the lip service from the Chronic and others, but still a risk they may not want to take.

If they want to extend anyone, I would think they would look at Antonio. He's solid, and I believe has 2 years left.

Also, remember all those restructures from last year to get JJoe and DManning? They dumped '11 money into '12, and ......Well, here we are.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by WMH

Only problem with this one is Schaub is not healthy. That is a huge risk. I know we've all heard the lip service from the Chronic and others, but still a risk they may not want to take.

Oh, I agree totally with this reasoning, just implying that McNair's praise of Schaub and reasoning for not pursuing Manning rings hollow when most teams who love their QB probably don't let him dangle in the final contract year when he realistically has several productive years left in his body.

Reality is yeah, I am nervous as heck investing in Schaub given his injury history and more immediately just how healthy he even is right now. With him healthy, this is a Super Bowl team.

The brittle tag on Schaub has often been too harsh, but missed games are missed games, and Schaub has missed a lot.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by Keith

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now.

Totally agree with this. I'm actually stunned they haven't extended anyone at this point, especially Schaub. Save for Foster, it amazes me how this franchise waits until the witching hour to re-sign the guys you know they want to keep.

BTW, new tweet:
Liz Mullen‏ @SBJLizMullen -
Texans free agent Center Chris Myers is going to visit the Tennessee Titans tomorrow.

Just think how fun this offseason will be if the Titans sign Manning and Myers.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by WMH

I was wondering what kind of money that a #2 WR would get, you know, someone like Garcon. Well, that market has been set by Garcon, to the tune of 5 yrs, $42.5MM with $21 gtd as he signs with the Skins.

Maybe Jacoby wasn't so bad afterall
Don't see us playing in that game.

Unless Tennessee is running a zone scheme I almost hope they overpay Meyers. He will get pushed around in any traditional scheme.

The problem is when you win teams start overpaying for your guys because you made them look good. Aside from Duane brown I think OL are more plug and play than RBs in our offense.

[cadams]

Originally Posted by Keith

Because the #s add up fast.

Schaub - $10.95M
Joseph - $9.75M
Andre (pre-restructure) - $8.84M
Ninja - $8.8M
Foster - $7.9M
Manning - $5M
Walter - $3.5M
Cushing - $3.28M
Jacoby - Don't remember.
Duane - Don't remember.
Daniels - Don't remember.

This is probably ~$70 million or so. Leaves $50 million for the other 40 in the top 51. It goes fast.

ETA - The real problem at this point is Schaub's #. He is in the final year now, a perfect time to extend if the Texans are REALLY committed to the guy, i.e. not just Bob McNair giving us all lip service like he did this week when addressing Peyton rumors. If Bob really loved Schaub as much as he said, they would have extended his contract by now.

isn't ryans' number pretty high this year?

[Keith]

Originally Posted by cadams

isn't ryans' number pretty high this year?

Well, I had his salary at $5.9 million for 2012, but I never completed his new contract in my notes, so I can't verify what his cap figure is for this year offhand. But yes, he slipped my mind when I put together that list, good catch.

[popanot]

Bills press conference at 1:30 EST to announce Mario signing. Not shocking since we knew someone would pay stupid money for him. Guess it's better he goes to the Bills than an AFC-S team. While it's sad to see him go, no way is he worth being the top paid DL or D player in the league and I think the Bills will be disappointed in the long run.

EDIT:
Jason La Canfora ‏ @JasonLaCanfora
Don't have official numbers on Mario Williams in BUF yet, but been hearing $16M a year with $50M guaranteed

No way the Texasn pay that based on production.

[chuck]

Everybody knows I've always liked Mario and I hope he does well in Buffalo when he's not playing against the Texans. But I find it very, very difficult to digest why anyone much less the most sought-after free agent on the market would deliberately go to Buffalo. Buffalo is without a doubt the worst city with a major league professional sports franchise in the United States. That means Buffalo is worse than Columbus, OH, and Oklahoma City. Detroit is a freaking paradise compared with Buffalo.

I would take $45MM guaranteed and go to Atlanta, thank you.