[KTRK-TV] Texans Interested in DE Antonio Smith

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by edo783

I guess the question is...what is over paid money? What would a fair contract look like? At 27 years old I think a 5 year contract is possible (I would prefer shorter, But..) with about 10-15 mill guaranteed and a total of 35 mill sounds about right and more IMO would probably be over paying. That's just off the top of my head and I haven't researched how that fits with what other mid/middle upper level DEs are getting.

I would think that is to much money for 3 sacks per year. Sorry he is a slight upgrade to Weaver to me right now.

[dadmg]

Originally Posted by painekiller

I would think that is to much money for 3 sacks per year. Sorry he is a slight upgrade to Weaver to me right now.

And guess how many sacks Weaver had in his four year Baltimore career: 14.5. The exact same number as Smith in his Arizona career. Somehow I don't think his pay will be commensurate to his pass-rushing production. He's a solid player, but for a team that had so much trouble getting to the quarterback, it's a bit odd that we're prioritizing pursuit of a DE starter whose more of a run-stopping LDE type.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by dadmg

And guess how many sacks Weaver had in his four year Baltimore career: 14.5. The exact same number as Smith in his Arizona career. Somehow I don't think his pay will be commensurate to his pass-rushing production. He's a solid player, but for a team that had so much trouble getting to the quarterback, it's a bit odd that we're prioritizing pursuit of a DE starter whose more of a run-stopping LDE type.

And I thought Weaver was overpaid just like Wadd was overpaid. Casserly overpaid every FA he brought in.

[nero THE zero]

Smith's not nearly as similar to Weaver as you guys are making it out to be. Weaver was a 3-4 DE whose strengths are tying up blockers and playing the run. Smith is a 4-3 DE who's apparently not as good against the run as you would think:

Antonio Smith, DE, Arizona: Frank Bush knows Smith a little bit from his time with the Cardinals and I'm sure he realizes that Smith is average as a pass rusher when he's at defensive end, but a handful when he is bumped down inside to defensive tackle on third downs. Smith has pretty good size, but he's not as good against the run as you would expect for a player his size. Still, he has a nice set of spin moves that can be very tough for guards to handle and he would be an upgrade in terms of athleticism on the defensive line.

I think he'd be a good piece to start at LDE and move inside next to Amobi on passing downs with a mid-round pass rushing specialist coming in at end. This signing would allow us to keep our options open in the first round and not tie us to having to draft a certain position. So you (1)find your starting LDE and (2)are allowed to keep your options open in the draft.

Sign me up.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by painekiller

And I thought Weaver was overpaid just like Wadd was overpaid. Casserly overpaid every FA he brought in.

Weaver was Kubiaks choice as much as anybodys back in 2006 when he got the HC job. I remember Kubiak specifically saying of all of our DLineman we still didn't have a true strong-side DE for the 4-3 he was transitioning to and that's why Kubiak said he signed Weaver, in spite of the fact that he'd played in the 3-4 in Baltimore. I think Weaver played SS DE in college at Notre Dame.
But I don't see Smith as that much of an upgrade of Weaver either. And what is this reluctance to once and for all declare our best strong-side DE as our new starting stong-side DE (Mario's "natural poisition") which would then free us up to look at the wide array of lighter, quicker DEs available in this upcoming Draft to play weakside DE ?

[mussop]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Weaver was Kubiaks choice as much as anybodys back in 2006 when he got the HC job. I remember Kubiak specifically saying of all of our DLineman we still didn't have a true strong-side DE for the 4-3 he was transitioning to and that's why Kubiak said he signed Weaver, in spite of the fact that he'd played in the 3-4 in Baltimore. I think Weaver played SS DE in college at Notre Dame.
But I don't see Smith as that much of an upgrade of Weaver either. And what is this reluctance to once and for all declare our best strong-side DE as our new starting stong-side DE (Mario's "natural poisition") which would then free us up to look at the wide array of lighter, quicker DEs available in this upcoming Draft to play weakside DE ?

His signing could mean we are looking at drafting one of the undersized DE's (Maybin or Brown) that could slip to us. Or maybe we are considering picking up one of the OLB's (Mathews or Cushing) that can put their hand down on 3rd down and rush the passer. Seems likely if this guy is going to move inside on passing downs. Personally I hope we trade down and get more picks and we take Mathews.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by mussop

His signing could mean we are looking at drafting one of the undersized DE's (Maybin or Brown) that could slip to us. Or maybe we are considering picking up one of the OLB's (Mathews or Cushing) that can put their hand down on 3rd down and rush the passer. Seems likely if this guy is going to move inside on passing downs. Personally I hope we trade down and get more picks and we take Mathews.

If Antonio Smith is that Justin Tuck type that kicks inside on third downs then we will probably still need an edge rush specalist. I don't know if specalist who plays only on third downs is worth a first pick, unless like you say he is an OLB for the other downs, but he is probably worth a second pick.

Say a Michael Johnson in the second, or a Brian Cushing/Clay Matthews in the first.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Weaver was Kubiaks choice as much as anybodys back in 2006 when he got the HC job. I remember Kubiak specifically saying of all of our DLineman we still didn't have a true strong-side DE for the 4-3 he was transitioning to and that's why Kubiak said he signed Weaver, in spite of the fact that he'd played in the 3-4 in Baltimore. I think Weaver played SS DE in college at Notre Dame.

I agree he was Kubiak's choice from what was out there, but it was Casserly who overpaid him. Just like Capers wanted Babin, but Casserly gave up the farm for him to a division rival in cap trouble.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by painekiller

I agree he was Kubiak's choice from what was out there, but it was Casserly who overpaid him. Just like Capers wanted Babin, but Casserly gave up the farm for him to a division rival in cap trouble.

Casserly had to pay the price to beat the rest of the FA market to get Kubiak his strongiside DE and he did what he had to do to trade-up and get the pick to get Capers & Fangio their perceived franchise 3-4 pass-rusher. Casserly was just doing his job.
On the other hand, I'll join you all day long in bashing Casserly for what he gave up to Oakland in the P-Burnt acquisition or the mindless exchange of a
second-round pick for Tony Hollings.