The upcoming Tennessee game (12-14-08)

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by Mike

Exactly my point. My statement was made somewhat tongue in cheek. If he had come from any school other than UT, nobody would give a flip about him. I have watched every snap this season and my recollections are that he plays slow and he plays high and has not been effective.

As sorry as this sounds, he is not better than TJ, Zgonia, Robinson, Nading....

I have watched every snap as well. I shave a lot of games on DVR, and I have seen Okam play.....but honestly, I don't think he has stood out in a good or bad way. He almost made a nice play in the backfield last week, but he hasnt been pushed around any more than our other DTs. UT has nothing to do with any fascination. It was widely accepted among scouts that Okams talent level is very high.....the question is his motor. Some say that has to do with a change in schemes at UT. Anyway, coaches will tell you that it usually takes 3 years for a DL to develop. I can tell you that Glenn Dorsey didnt stand out in any games I watched this year as well. I have not watched every KC snap....My disclaimer....I can't speak for everyone, but for me, my reasons are simple.

1. I am on a 3 year plan
2. He needs some experience. Sorry, but I have seen Zgonia pushed around so much, it tires me. He is a great locker room presence, but he has slipped a lot this year.
3. He does need to earn pt....I concede this point; however, there is a point you begin replacing veterans with youth as the season concludes. I think this is what most are asking.....See what he can do on the field. After all, there is a difference from the practice field and the playing field.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by sinnister

UT has nothing to do with any fascination. It was widely accepted among scouts that Okams talent level is very high.....the question is his motor.

Seems like people may be talking about 2 different things. If you're talking about what NFL scouts thought of him, I agree that UT probably had little to do with it. However, I understood the question to center around fans' fascination with him on message boards, etc. The fact that he is from UT most definitely plays a role in this. People went crazy when the Texans passed on Derrick Johnson. People went ridiculously crazy when the Texans passed on Vince Young. People immediately started calling for the Texans to sign Cedric Benson when he was cut. If you think it was simply happenstance that all of these guys were from UT and this didn't play a role in why certain fans wanted them, you're crazy.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by sinnister

1. I am on a 3 year plan
2. He needs some experience. Sorry, but I have seen Zgonia pushed around so much, it tires me. He is a great locker room presence, but he has slipped a lot this year.
3. He does need to earn pt....I concede this point; however, there is a point you begin replacing veterans with youth as the season concludes. I think this is what most are asking.....See what he can do on the field. After all, there is a difference from the practice field and the playing field.

1) Bob McNair is not on the same plan. gary Kubiak also not on that plan. The goal is to win. Win as many games as possible and play whoever gives that best chance.
2) You earn PT in practice. Anyone who has played any level of football understands that. Okam level of play went down after the NC year. Hence, his draft stock fell. He had time in camp/preseason to earn time. He did not earn time.
3) Veterans and players who are going to be here want to win. The wanted to beat SF years ago even if they lost the #1 pick. You play who gives you the change to win. Too bad for on the job training. This is the NFL. Vets don't deserve to lose a job to a rook.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by Mike

1) Bob McNair is not on the same plan. gary Kubiak also not on that plan. The goal is to win. Win as many games as possible and play whoever gives that best chance.
2) You earn PT in practice. Anyone who has played any level of football understands that. Okam level of play went down after the NC year. Hence, his draft stock fell. He had time in camp/preseason to earn time. He did not earn time.
3) Veterans and players who are going to be here want to win. The wanted to beat SF years ago even if they lost the #1 pick. You play who gives you the change to win. Too bad for on the job training. This is the NFL. Vets don't deserve to lose a job to a rook.

1. Mcnair's timetable has nothing to do with the development of a DT. Kubiak is on a timeline of development, but I would think he wants to see improvement. Again, this is an entirely different point and another subject altogether. If your point is correct, then one must always pursue free agents. You have to allow rookies to learn and play, while juggling veteran players who are better. If you don't, then your team will always fail.

2. Anyone who has played football will tell you that you do have players who don't perform as well on a practice field as they do on playing field, or perform great on a practice field and stink it up on the playing field. There are a lot of reasons why this is, and anyone who has played sports knows this.

3. This is correct, but it also shows if you live for the here and now, you will lose. Kubiak has stated he should have played Diles, Walter, and Bennett sooner than he did. I am not saying this is the case for Okam, but merely saying that a good organization understands the long term development of the team may be a little short term suffering. All the practice in the world is completely different when the cameras start, the crowds are there, and the pressure is on. Again, anyone who plays sports knows this.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by sinnister

1. Mcnair's timetable has nothing to do with the development of a DT. Kubiak is on a timeline of development, but I would think he wants to see improvement. Again, this is an entirely different point and another subject altogether. If your point is correct, then one must always pursue free agents. You have to allow rookies to learn and play, while juggling veteran players who are better. If you don't, then your team will always fail.

2. Anyone who has played football will tell you that you do have players who don't perform as well on a practice field as they do on playing field, or perform great on a practice field and stink it up on the playing field. There are a lot of reasons why this is, and anyone who has played sports knows this.

3. This is correct, but it also shows if you live for the here and now, you will lose. Kubiak has stated he should have played Diles, Walter, and Bennett sooner than he did. I am not saying this is the case for Okam, but merely saying that a good organization understands the long term development of the team may be a little short term suffering. All the practice in the world is completely different when the cameras start, the crowds are there, and the pressure is on. Again, anyone who plays sports knows this.

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Bennett played as soon as he was healthy his rookie year. Kubs never expressed regrets.

And Diles and Walter prove the opposite of what you are arguing. They did a great job in practice and earned PT (thus coach saying I wish we played those guys even though they had never performed on sunday). Both guys just did such a great job in practice that they could not be kept off the field. Thats how both of them were starters here by the beginning of their 2nd season even though neither was highly regarded. They earned it. However, Kubiak has never said anything like this with Okam. In fact he has said the opposite. He has said Okam does not practice like a pro.

Right now you have no good reason why Okam should play other than (1) he is young, and (2) even though he is no good in practice he MIGHT be good in a game.

Okam is a young guy. He will either work hard, get better, and earn snaps, or he will practice poorly, never see the field, and be out of the league. Why is this so hard to understand?

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by barrett

Where do you come up with this stuff?

Bennett played as soon as he was healthy his rookie year. Kubs never expressed regrets.

Kubiak has stated that he wished he would have played Diles, Walters, and Bennett earlier. Bennett was hurt, but he didnt start as soon as he got healthy. He was back for awhile, but Petey kept getting torched. Then they went to Bennett.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by sinnister

Kubiak has stated that he wished he would have played Diles, Walters, and Bennett earlier. Bennett was hurt, but he didnt start as soon as he got healthy. He was back for awhile, but Petey kept getting torched. Then they went to Bennett.

Bennett was hurt and missed all of training camp. Then he got healthy after camp and DURING his rookie season. Starting by midseason for a rookie who missed all of camp may be a record. He was on the field as soon as possible. Show me a quote from Kubs that says otherwise.

As for Diles and Walter... like I said, you've got two guys who practiced hard, drew praise from their coach, and earned spots. There is no correllation to Okam.

The correllations for walter and diles are Deljuan Robinson and Jesse Nading. Both are hard working young players who have performed well enough in practice to EARN their way into the DT rotation.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by barrett

Bennett was hurt and missed all of training camp. Then he got healthy after camp and DURING his rookie season. Starting by midseason for a rookie who missed all of camp may be a record. He was on the field as soon as possible. Show me a quote from Kubs that says otherwise.

As for Diles and Walter... like I said, you've got two guys who practiced hard, drew praise from their coach, and earned spots. There is no correllation to Okam.

The correllations for walter and diles are Deljuan Robinson and Jesse Nading. Both are hard working young players who have performed well enough in practice to EARN their way into the DT rotation.

The way you make it out, Okam must be not do anything. You say he doesnt practice hard...Show me a quote where Kubs has said this. The only thing I have heard Kubiak say concerning Okam and where he was as a player was that he had a lot to learn. As for Fred Bennett, he started after Duanta Robinson when he was injured. As I remember, it was after that Kubiak made a statement about he should have probably played him more, but he felt like Petey was "better" at the time. I will see if I can find the quote, or maybe someone else can provide that.

This is becoming pointless. You think Okam is lazy, and he may be. I don't know that. If he is as lazy as you are making him out, then he should be cut; however, I doubt he is as bad as the rap he is getting.

[Mike]

[QUOTE=sinnister;6279]I have watched every snap as well. I shave a lot of games on DVR, and I have seen Okam play.....but honestly, I don't think he has stood out in a good or bad way. He almost made a nice play in the backfield last week, but he hasnt been pushed around any more than our other DTs.QUOTE]

Your argument and logic is so bad, I almost missed that pearl.

"He almost made a nice play." That is really good. I almost scored with a really hot chick but just missed. Instead I ended up with the fat one with zits.

Does than mean that "insert CB's name here" almost made a great play, just missed and got burned on a 99 yard touchdown.

[sinnister]

[QUOTE=Mike;6304]

Originally Posted by sinnister

I have watched every snap as well. I shave a lot of games on DVR, and I have seen Okam play.....but honestly, I don't think he has stood out in a good or bad way. He almost made a nice play in the backfield last week, but he hasnt been pushed around any more than our other DTs.QUOTE]

Your argument and logic is so bad, I almost missed that pearl.

"He almost made a nice play." That is really good. I almost scored with a really hot chick but just missed. Instead I ended up with the fat one with zits.

Does than mean that "insert CB's name here" almost made a great play, just missed and got burned on a 99 yard touchdown.

LOL.....My point was that he hardly played.....and yes, he missed a play in the backfield.....he did disrupt the original play....Great pearl you found.