Owen Daniels Contract Negotiations

[superbowlbound]

Barrett, I don't think I could agree with you more about the KW acquisition. Kevin Walter for a 7th round pick was on the same level as Luis Scola for Visilis Spinoulis. You're absolutely right. Walter is one of the most underrated players in the NFL. Just last night, as a matter of fact, I was having a discussion with a dude at the bar about this very subject, and then the passing game as a whole. He was saying that Kevin Walter sucks, that he shows up for 3 games a year, and is useless the rest of the time. Then I spouted off his numbers. "Damn, that good, huh?" And I told him to name me 5 #2 WR's better than him, and he couldn't get past anquan boldin and wes welker.

PB, You said exactly what I was trying to say about OD/KW's blocking.

BTL, Yes, with a crappy quarterback, OD's numbers would be far less, but so would KW's and Slaton's. Dre's gonna get his anyway. The way I see it, the only serious deficiency that OD has is that he doesn't catch TD's, while KW does. Let's take a moment to consider something. Now I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, so I don't know how many of KW's td's were from 20 yds and out, but I think it's pretty safe to say that he scored most often from inside the red zone, yeah? The TE is traditionally a much bigger target in the red zone, and when you have a good one, he must be accounted for by the defense. Now you've got one of the 2 best receivers in football on one side, and a top tier TE in the red zone. Those are two guys that will definitely be accounted for. Perhaps Walter is able to get open a little more often in the end zone because he's the guy the other team decided was going to be the one that beat them, if he could do it. You pick your poison, and it's not unreasonable to think that perhaps, in the red zone, teams pick Walter

[barrett]

Walter's 8 TDs were 14, 5, 8, 7, 39, 60, 17, and 58.

So he found the endzone from all over the field and had a number of long catches on the year in addition to the TDs. Walter benefits from the overall offensive talent and beats man coverage just like Daniels benefits from the overall offensive talent and beats man coverage. But in the Redzone, OD has little to do with Walter's performance. Teams are not shading goalline coverage towards a guy who does not catch TDs. Rather I think both guys benefit hugely from AJ and Walter just does a better job of cashing in in the redzone.

Either way I think Daniels is more "replacable", but I sincerely hope we don't have to replace any positive working part on our roster unless we are getting back a haul in return.

[cadams]

Originally Posted by barrett

Teams are not shading goalline coverage towards a guy who does not catch TDs. Rather I think both guys benefit hugely from AJ and Walter just does a better job of cashing in in the redzone.

Either way I think Daniels is more "replacable", but I sincerely hope we don't have to replace any positive working part on our roster unless we are getting back a haul in return.

We aren't going to change anyone's mind here, but I couldn't disagree more. Daniels is a tight end with wr hands and playmaking ability. In my opinion, that is much more valuable than you are giving it credit for. Teams have to scheme for Daniels because he is such a good player AT HIS POSITION. Week in and week out most teams don't have to worry about having a tight end on the opposing team with OD's skill set, therefore when they are getting ready to play the texans, they have to take that into account and plan ways to try to neutralize him. When you add that to the fact that AJ is one of the 2 best WRs in the league, it is going to give defenses fits, and allows for Walter, who is a top notch #2 to take advantage of the situation (which he does). Having to account for OD's skill sets also likely helps the run game as well, as teams have to put a guy in coverage they might normally leave in the box.

You can't really think that you could take OD out, put a rookie or another unproven player in, and it wouldn't have a negative effect on this offense.

[papabear]

On the whole TD thing. I don't think you can say that a player isn't effective in goal line situations unless you can point to something tangible as to why. Without going back and looking at the tape it's hard for me to say. Maybe Daniels was open, but was often option 3 or 4 and the progression never got to him. Maybe he just couldn't get open. I think our problems in the redzone/goaline were a product of not running the ball well in those situations.

Andre Johnson TD's by year:
4
6
2
5
8
8

OD

5
3
2

You can see the improvement with Dre over the last few years, but even his TD numbers aren't as dominant the rest of his passing statistics. At least a handful of those came from farther out than the redzone too. No one would make an argument that Dre isn't as affective weapon in the red zone. My point is we just aren't that good down there, so I view it more of an incomplete grade than an actual limitation to his game.

[TheMatrix31]

I don't think we're at the point of our existence where we can say one player is replacable. Our biggest problem is consistency, and keeping a team together is the key to developing that consistency. Owen is much more, but at the very least, he's crucial security blanket for Schaub.

Gotta keep him.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by cadams

We aren't going to change anyone's mind here, but I couldn't disagree more. Daniels is a tight end with wr hands and playmaking ability. In my opinion, that is much more valuable than you are giving it credit for. Teams have to scheme for Daniels because he is such a good player AT HIS POSITION. Week in and week out most teams don't have to worry about having a tight end on the opposing team with OD's skill set, therefore when they are getting ready to play the texans, they have to take that into account and plan ways to try to neutralize him. When you add that to the fact that AJ is one of the 2 best WRs in the league, it is going to give defenses fits, and allows for Walter, who is a top notch #2 to take advantage of the situation (which he does). Having to account for OD's skill sets also likely helps the run game as well, as teams have to put a guy in coverage they might normally leave in the box.

You can't really think that you could take OD out, put a rookie or another unproven player in, and it wouldn't have a negative effect on this offense.

I didn't say you could put a rookie in and not be hurt. I said I hope we don't have to replace any positive working part. We would take a hit by taking OD out of the lineup. How big is debatable, but whether we would take one is not.

[Keith]

Owen Daniels was on ESPN's First Take earlier today.

On his contract talks:
"...kinda still a little disappointed in the way things are going. Hopefully we can get something done before camp.

Houston is the place I want to be. I love playing for Coach Kubiak. I love the fans there. I love all my teammates. ..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oprH1bOTyn0

[WMH]

This has got to make Rick Smith cringed a little.....

From PFT:
Steelers tight end Heath Miller, who would have been a restricted free agent in March 2010 absent a new labor deal, nevertheless reeled in a six-year, $35.3 million deal prior to the final year of his rookie contract.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by WMH

This has got to make Rick Smith cringed a little.....

From PFT:
Steelers tight end Heath Miller, who would have been a restricted free agent in March 2010 absent a new labor deal, nevertheless reeled in a six-year, $35.3 million deal prior to the final year of his rookie contract.

But only about 12.5 million is guaranteed, according to what I've seen. I would think the Texans would do a deal like that.