Official Texans @ Jaguars Game Thread (London), 11/3/2019

[nunusguy]

Maybe most impressive player on defense was our new CB Conley who had a huge game both defending against the pass and in tackling ball carriers including going mano-a-mano a couple times up against stud Jags 230 lb. RB Fournette.
Some quarreled about coughing up a third rounder for Conely but today looks like a shrewd move on our end.

[HPF Bob]

Missed the whole game due to church but saw the highlights on YouTube. Very solid win in their first game on foreign soil (well, other than Mexico City). Did the Texans sack Minshew even once all day? That would be my only real complaint although the OL was like a sieve again but Watson keeps pulling rabbits out of his helmet. Two completions and a lateral while FALLING DOWN! Amazing!

This is a big win within the division.

[HPF Bob]

Here's a surprise. Due to Daylight Savings Time, the NFL games are an hour later than usual. Panama does not have DST. It is EST here when it is Standard time and CDT when it is DST. These games are just in the 2nd qtr.

Titans are losing. Colts have a 16-13 lead at halftime in Pittsburgh but Pittsburgh got a gift FG after a personal foul on Indy with no time left in the half.

Brisket hurt his knee in the game. Bryan "The Playoff Destroyer" Hoyer is qb'ing for Indy.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

OK. Not sure where you're going with that.... Are you implying that Walter is just throwing contrary stuff out to get hits on his website? I dunno about that. He furnishes a lot of hard data - not just his opinions - and (claims to) wager on the games he believes will be winners. In my book, that qualifies him as a resource. I don't always agree with him but I think he's gotta better and more educated take than the average schmo....



That's a good point. It'll be interesting to see if OB can keep them focused.....

Walter way overthought this one. The Texans are a MUCH better team than the Jags and everything in the world indicates that. But trying to find the angle on the game had him convinced that the better team with Deshaun Watson was somehow worse than the lesser team with Gardner Minshew.

[HPF Bob]

Karma finally catches up to Indy (of course, it would be the Steelers). Viniateri shanks a winning FG attempt.

Titans about to be closed out vs. Panthers.

Hello, first place Texans!

Updated standings:

Houston 6-3
Indy 5-3
Jacksonville 4-5
Tennessee 4-5

[HPF Bob]

In fact, if the Patriots beat Baltimore tonight, the Texans jump all the way up to the #2 seed in the AFC. They own the tiebreaker with KC based on head-to-head play.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

Walter way overthought this one. The Texans are a MUCH better team than the Jags and everything in the world indicates that. But trying to find the angle on the game had him convinced that the better team with Deshaun Watson was somehow worse than the lesser team with Gardner Minshew.

Yep, he was wrong on this one. It happens. Still, he's up $9500 on the year so I wouldn't dismiss him as an idiot....

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Zack Cunningham had one of the coolest tackles I've ever seen today. I'll have to rewatch but I think it was 4th qtr, a punt return. He ran up and just pushed the guy with the ball causing the guy to lose his feet and go flying. Like "sit down!". I lol'ed.

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Cautiously optimistic that the offense is finding itself with all the RPO stuff. I hope we've seen the last of Watson spending the entire game (Carolina game) trying to be a pocket passer....

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I have the Pats -3 as my best bet (double win or double loss) this week vs. the Ravens in the money contest I am in. Nice to see the Ravens scoring kinda easily even though it is to my detriment.... Ravens 17, Pats 13 at the half as I type.....

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

Yep, he was wrong on this one. It happens. Still, he's up $9500 on the year so I wouldn't dismiss him as an idiot....

I am guessing he got up $9500 by "furnishing hard data - not just opinions", as you said earlier in the thread. But obviously this time he didn't go with data and instead with opinions that ran contrary to data (Jacksonville could have won the first game so they basically have a better record if the past were only different, Marrone is better than O'Brien, Jags are better everywhere but QB/WR1/LB).

Like I said, Houston is flat better than Jacksonville and that's an easy call. Only trying to find an angle that nobody sees could lead to any other conclusion.

Minshew is terrible and only the media narrative created by his moustache hides that at all. It's mind blowing incompetence that their staff is considering starting him over Foles (unless they're playing for next year which I can't imagine from a staff that will likely get fired for 6-10).

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

I am guessing he got up $9500 by "furnishing hard data - not just opinions", as you said earlier in the thread. But obviously this time he didn't go with data and instead with opinions that ran contrary to data (Jacksonville could have won the first game so they basically have a better record if the past were only different, Marrone is better than O'Brien, Jags are better everywhere but QB/WR1/LB).

Handicapping football games is not easy. It's a tremendous time crunch. Walter publishes his musings along with stats to explain why he comes to his conclusions. It's all out there before the game starts for people to criticize or agree with. Like I said, I didn't agree with him on this game and I took the Texans. He was wrong, I was right and next week, it could be a flip-flopped. That's the way it goes.

Like I said, Houston is flat better than Jacksonville and that's an easy call. Only trying to find an angle that nobody sees could lead to any other conclusion.

I missed your prediction. Hindsight is 20/20 (or as Cam Newton says, "hindsight is 50:50"). The oddsmakers had it as the Texans being a slight favorite before the game so would any one of us be terribly surprised if the Texans choked the game away? First time in London, jet-lagged, the Jags used to it? As a fan, I was glad to see the Texans prove on the field that they were the better team....

Minshew is terrible and only the media narrative created by his moustache hides that at all. It's mind blowing incompetence that their staff is considering starting him over Foles (unless they're playing for next year which I can't imagine from a staff that will likely get fired for 6-10).

I don't think Minshew is terrible. He had a bad day for sure. Not atypical for a rookie QB. I think he'll have a job in the NFL for a very long time...

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

Handicapping football games is not easy. It's a tremendous time crunch. Walter publishes his musings along with stats to explain why he comes to his conclusions. It's all out there before the game starts for people to criticize or agree with. Like I said, I didn't agree with him on this game and I took the Texans. He was wrong, I was right and next week, it could be a flip-flopped. That's the way it goes.



I missed your prediction. Hindsight is 20/20 (or as Cam Newton says, "hindsight is 50:50"). The oddsmakers had it as the Texans being a slight favorite before the game so would any one of us be terribly surprised if the Texans choked the game away? First time in London, jet-lagged, the Jags used to it? As a fan, I was glad to see the Texans prove on the field that they were the better team....



I don't think Minshew is terrible. He had a bad day for sure. Not atypical for a rookie QB. I think he'll have a job in the NFL for a very long time...

The Jags offense has more talent then they’ve ever had and under Minshew they score 19 ppg. They have 1 win when the defense gives up 20. He has little to do with it when the team wins. They are built on running game and defense and can’t win when those things don’t show up. He scrambles well, has poor arm strength and poor accuracy.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

The Jags offense has more talent then they’ve ever had

Nope.

and under Minshew they score 19 ppg.

19.6 ppg (24th)

They have 1 win when the defense gives up 20.

True. So?

He has little to do with it when the team wins.

Of course not. The QB position has little to do with a team winning.

They are built on running game and defense and can’t win when those things don’t show up. He scrambles well, has poor arm strength and poor accuracy.

Minshew is currently 9th among QB's with 2,285 passing yards.

The Jags are currently tied for 5th with 35 passes of 20+ yards.

From wiki:

On September 8, 2019, Minshew made his NFL debut against the Kansas City Chiefs when starter Nick Foles was taken out of the game due to a shoulder injury. He completed 22 of 25 passes for 275 yards, two touchdowns and an interception in the 40–26 loss. Minshew's pass completion percentage of 88% is the highest of any player making his debut in NFL history (minimum 15 pass attempts, since at least 1950), and also the highest single-game pass completion percentage in Jaguars history.

Poor arm strength and accuracy? He had just 2 INT's until yesterday. That's not bad for a rookie. That Marrone even has to hesitate to replace him with Nick (superbowl) Foles might tell you what most people are thinking....

If you don't like him, just say so....

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Arky

The QB position has little to do with a team winning.

The only possible response to this is lol wut

[Arky]

Originally Posted by chuck

The only possible response to this is lol wut

We need a sarcasm emoji..... Perhaps rolleyes would've worked here

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

We need a sarcasm emoji..... Perhaps rolleyes would've worked here

I got the sarcasm that was directed at me.

I don't think you're crazy or out of line. I just think you're as wrong as you think I am. No big deal.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

I got the sarcasm that was directed at me.

I don't think you're crazy or out of line. I just think you're as wrong as you think I am. No big deal.

Well, I actually offered some data to back up my argument. You've mostly just furnished opinion.

It's weird, I can recall off the top of my head, you criticizing opposing QB's in the past. It is as though if it's not Watson you're talking about, the opposing QB is incompetent suckage. (<-- emoji for Chuck).

But, you're right. I'm done trying to change your mind.

[HPF Bob]

FWIW, I'm just happy to have One-eye Watson as our QB. How many plays per week does he make running around like a barnyard chicken before he connects with a receiver and it doesn't seem to matter if he's falling down or kicked in the face (no call) or surrounded by tacklers, he's still extending the play?

I guarantee you any of the Brits who sat through all four games in London this year probably marveled more at Watson's mad dashes than anyone else they watched all year.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

Well, I actually offered some data to back up my argument. You've mostly just furnished opinion.

It's weird, I can recall off the top of my head, you criticizing opposing QB's in the past. It is as though if it's not Watson you're talking about, the opposing QB is incompetent suckage. (<-- emoji for Chuck).

But, you're right. I'm done trying to change your mind.

I honestly didn't realize you were trying to change my mind at any point. Was that legitimately what was happening? You were trying to convince me Gardner Minshew is good? That's a strange hill to die on.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

I honestly didn't realize you were trying to change my mind at any point. Was that legitimately what was happening? You were trying to convince me Gardner Minshew is good? That's a strange hill to die on.

Ah, perhaps "change your mind" were the wrong words. More like "debunk the spewage" works better. It's always that way with you, barrett. You make these extreme comments with no backup and then when someone responds, you derail, derail, derail.

Ya know, you're kinda bad for business. The few times we see new members post here, the first time they have a run-in with ol' barrett, we never see them again. Lucky for you, I'm a little thicker-skinned....

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

Ah, perhaps "change your mind" were the wrong words. More like "debunk the spewage" works better. It's always that way with you, barrett. You make these extreme comments with no backup and then when someone responds, you derail, derail, derail.

Ya know, you're kinda bad for business. The few times we see new members post here, the first time they have a run-in with ol' barrett, we never see them again. Lucky for you, I'm a little thicker-skinned....

You may be right that I'm a jerk about the Texans. I definitely argue without much joy about a team I supposedly like. I've made a conscious effort this season on the site to post when I agree (most of the time) and not just when I disagree (the rest of the time). It obviously didn't come across. That's not good.

But you should try a little look in the mirror. I put down Walter football's take and you took it as an attack on you somehow. Then I said Minshew was no good and you took it as an attack. Then I said we simply disagree and you took it as an attack. Then you insulted me. But somehow you have built up this idea you're being attacked here. Plus two posts in a row you have gone to this idea I offer opinion and no facts, but I went to as many stats as you in this and any other argument I've ever had on this site. If anything I've always been obnoxious about using (twisting? cherry picking?) stats to fit and support my argument.

I guess I'm saying go read the posts and you'll see none of this played out like you think it did. But maybe that's mostly my fault for always being a jerk. Maybe anything I type on here is read like it's being shouted.

[Arky]

Okay, well, I kept telling myself that I was not going to respond to whatever was posted after my last post but you sound somewhat contrite so here goes:

1. The thing about bashing Walter's take was you posted your thoughts after the game was over. You were not incorrect, btw, about his being wrong or following the wrong path but it would have carried more weight had it been done before the game had started. As someone who starts handicapping college and pros on Friday night, all night, into Saturday, all day, all night, up till Sunday at noon with little sleep and continuously watching football, I felt the need to defend him. It's too easy to throw stones after the battle is over. I believe we actually agreed that the Texans would win, so there's that.

2. Then we derailed to Minshew. You think he's terrible, I don't think he's chopped liver. Fine, let's leave it at that.

You're fine. A good debate can be educational and stimulating. Just tone it down a bit, eh?