IntheBullseye.com  

Go Back   IntheBullseye.com > Hot Reads ...In the Bullseye > The NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #101  
Old 03-20-2009, 09:14 PM
Roy P Roy P is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
Honestly fellas, would everybody be that excited about Clay Matthews if he didn't have the home-town connection here ?
Yes.

I'm not from here and have absolutely no ties to the home-town connection. In fact, I looked at Matthews' "blood-lines" as a bit of a negative. It keeps getting brought up as a reason to take him, but unless his dad or uncle suits up, who cares?

Then I took that bias, and put it aside. I assumed that people were giving him a free pass because of who he was related to. However, when I watched him play, he stood out on his own merit.

Instead of looking at him as a kid with a silver spoon in his mouth, he has shown me that he has had to work for what he's gotten. He walked on at USC for crying out loud. You'd think that they would have given him a full ride just because of his family.

So, to answer the question, I am excited about Clay despite his home-town connections and blood lines.
__________________
Originally Posted by chuck
I'm just sitting here thinking (pacing, actually) that whatever my issues with Kubiak he is apparently a goddam genius at tutoring quarterbacks.
Reply With Quote
  #102  
Old 03-20-2009, 11:32 PM
Blitzwood Blitzwood is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 399
Default

I'm scared as he>* of Matthews!! Can you say Vernon Gholston here we come.

Matthews wasn't even the third best LB at USC, much less a starter until recently. And why is no one mentioning his whopping 5.5 sacks his whole career there in the PAC-10. Drafting Matthews on potential is a colossal risk, more than Vernon was. At least he had 22 sacks his college career. And at 15, a major reach.

He hasn't done anything to warrant a 15th overall selection, besides have a nice combine, IMO. We all know if his name wasn't Matthews we wouldn't even be considering him in the first round. He also has some significant question marks about his maturity level (He created a "White Power" facebook group in 2007 with his buddies). How's he gonna explain that to his future teammates. And don't forget the amount of muscle he's put on in a very short amount of time. Wasn't he a 175lb walk on ?? Cushing's getting more heat over it right now, but the winds will shift to him eventually.
Finally, what position is he really gonna play? OLB in a 4-3. How, he has zero cover skills. So he's only a two down LB. Really? At the end of the day he's really a 3-4 OLB/4-3 DE tweener with very limited starting experience.

I think Jerry or Harvin are much safer picks and would be productive from game 1. Harvin, who is my preferred choice because of the explosiveness he plays with, would give us a level of athleticism and speed this team has never seen on our side of the ball and shift our offense to the same level of our division rival's, the Colts. With Slaton and Harvin in the backfield and AJ, Walters, and Daniels lined up, defenses won't know who to double. Kyle would look like a genius. And Harvin's been tearing it up for years at Florida and comes with a proven track record(bad pun).

Jerry's also been a disruptive force in the same conference, the SEC. He could easily replace Travis Johnson.

This pick needs to be really researched. Our season( and Kubiak's job) depends on it...

Last edited by Blitzwood; 03-20-2009 at 11:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #103  
Old 03-21-2009, 07:58 AM
nunusguy nunusguy is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzwood View Post
I'm scared as he>* of Matthews!! Can you say Vernon Gholston here we come.

Matthews wasn't even the third best LB at USC, much less a starter until recently. And why is no one mentioning his whopping 5.5 sacks his whole career there in the PAC-10. Drafting Matthews on potential is a colossal risk, more than Vernon was. At least he had 22 sacks his college career. And at 15, a major reach.

He hasn't done anything to warrant a 15th overall selection, besides have a nice combine, IMO. We all know if his name wasn't Matthews we wouldn't even be considering him in the first round. He also has some significant question marks about his maturity level (He created a "White Power" facebook group in 2007 with his buddies). How's he gonna explain that to his future teammates. And don't forget the amount of muscle he's put on in a very short amount of time. Wasn't he a 175lb walk on ?? Cushing's getting more heat over it right now, but the winds will shift to him eventually.
Finally, what position is he really gonna play? OLB in a 4-3. How, he has zero cover skills. So he's only a two down LB. Really? At the end of the day he's really a 3-4 OLB/4-3 DE tweener with very limited starting experience.
Blitzwood is kinda hittin on some of my thoughts about Matthews, and believe me I don't wanta put the guy down. The home-town connection with uncle Bruce is heart-warming and all (and it keeps gettin better with the H-of-Fame unc now on the Texans' coaching staff) and the Texans surely need some home-town heros to fire up the fan-base, but he makes some points about Clay M in his post that's worth considering. BTW what's this about "White Power" ? That's a new twist ?
LZ on 1560 was talking the other day about the Texans picking DT TJ with their first-round pick (16th overall) in 2005 Draft. He started at FSU only in his senior year and the highlight of his season (and his carrer at FSU), was basically the first 5 or 6 games of that year. I feel more comfortable with a
guy like D-Rob or DeMeco who's had a multi-year career as a starter at his alma mater. It's just a longer resume, more accomplishments, etc.
And like Blitzwood hinted at, maybe Matthews wouldn't have even started or played that much in his senior year if one less Trojan LB hadn't exhausted his eligibility ?
Reply With Quote
  #104  
Old 03-21-2009, 09:09 AM
dalemurphy dalemurphy is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 259
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
Blitzwood is kinda hittin on some of my thoughts about Matthews, and believe me I don't wanta put the guy down. The home-town connection with uncle Bruce is heart-warming and all (and it keeps gettin better with the H-of-Fame unc now on the Texans' coaching staff) and the Texans surely need some home-town heros to fire up the fan-base, but he makes some points about Clay M in his post that's worth considering. BTW what's this about "White Power" ? That's a new twist ?
LZ on 1560 was talking the other day about the Texans picking DT TJ with their first-round pick (16th overall) in 2005 Draft. He started at FSU only in his senior year and the highlight of his season (and his carrer at FSU), was basically the first 5 or 6 games of that year. I feel more comfortable with a
guy like D-Rob or DeMeco who's had a multi-year career as a starter at his alma mater. It's just a longer resume, more accomplishments, etc.
And like Blitzwood hinted at, maybe Matthews wouldn't have even started or played that much in his senior year if one less Trojan LB hadn't exhausted his eligibility ?

You both make a good point but I think an organization that is confident in its player evaluations shouldn't lay down rules/obstacles in order to protect itself against a mistake.

In other words, I personally may be uncomfortable with a one year wonder. The statistics on those players becoming good NFL players may even suggest it's something to avoid, but if the front office rates the player high and it has an opportunity to go get him, that front office should do it anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #105  
Old 03-21-2009, 10:20 AM
Roy P Roy P is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzwood View Post
I think Jerry or Harvin are much safer picks and would be productive from game 1. Harvin, who is my preferred choice because of the explosiveness he plays with, would give us a level of athleticism and speed this team has never seen on our side of the ball.

Jerry's also been a disruptive force in the same conference, the SEC. He could easily replace Travis Johnson..
I like Harvin and like Maclin even more, however, it's been pointed out that the offense isn't the big problem with our football team.

Peria Jerry could easily replace Travis Johnson, however, the question is does he make the defense better? Would he improve the run defense and keep DeMeco Ryans free to make plays? I'm not so sure.

The BPA on defense may very well be Vontae Davis. However, there will be folks who say that they are not wanting another CB because it won't address what the team needs.

So, no matter who we take, somebody will come up with a reason not to take him.
__________________
Originally Posted by chuck
I'm just sitting here thinking (pacing, actually) that whatever my issues with Kubiak he is apparently a goddam genius at tutoring quarterbacks.
Reply With Quote
  #106  
Old 03-21-2009, 10:45 AM
nunusguy nunusguy is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dalemurphy View Post
You both make a good point but I think an organization that is confident in its player evaluations shouldn't lay down rules/obstacles in order to protect itself against a mistake.
You often make good sense to me D-M but not this time.
To me the ultimate consideration in an NFL teams use of its first round Draft pick is protection against the worst case scenario on the downside: a college players evaluation & projection to the NFL which is so badly mistaken that it results in a bust.
Reply With Quote
  #107  
Old 03-21-2009, 12:42 PM
Bigtinylittle Bigtinylittle is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 262
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by painekiller View Post
He is really saying OC and OG, only Unger can play now at OG and upgrade Briesel while he learns to read the DL and becomes familiar with the line calls. Next year you have a new OC and a 2nd year guy ready to play ORG.

Also most of us are forgetting that Chester is starting to get to age that we need to find his eventual replacement in the next couple of years.
Actually, I realized what he meant and I should have said so. And I really don't think it would necessarily be a bad idea to do it. The part of what he said that really bothers me is not picking up a DE and not getting a back until the seventh. Seventh round backs usually don't have NFL careers. We would have to get awfully lucky to find one that will. Also, the guy he mentioned may not even be there in the seventh when we pick. What do we do then?

As for DE, I thought the whole plan for the DL was to move Smith to the inside on passing downs. If we go with Bulman at RDE in those situations, it seems to me we would not get the full benefit of moving Smith inside. Also we are a bit thin at DE right now. We cut Weaver, and apparently Cochran won't be back, so if Smith moves inside, Bulman is really our only other DE. Sounds scary.
Reply With Quote
  #108  
Old 03-21-2009, 12:50 PM
Blitzwood Blitzwood is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 399
Default

Roy,
you're right, you can't make everyone happy.
(BTW, Roy's are always right, just ask me:-)

I like our offense and don't think we're that far off, either, but just because it's good doesn't mean it can't get better, especially when every other team is gonna try to improve their offense in the draft. I like Maclin, but think he'll be gone by the time the 15th pick rolls around. Harvin is just as good with better experience having played a vital roll in two BCS championships. The thing I really like about him is he plays RB and can spell Slaton. Something we need. But he can also line up as WR and safety valve and even do some returns. He's just so versatile for one player. Players that talented come around once every so often. He's virtually a can't miss.

Our defense needs to be upgraded and given some quality depth at multiple positions, but drafting an OLB that is a project in the first round doesn't help us on improving on an 8-8 season while other teams get better. I know we need probably 2-3 linebackers, but drafting for that need in the first round will make us reach for a player that probably won't be ready for at least a year. That player would be going up against elite players in the pros and I don't know if he's ready for that yet. It's gonna be really hard to learn that position in the pros going up against the best RB, TE, and linemen there is. Just ask Duane Brown and the 11 sacks he surrendered last year. We don't need to reach for another first round project.

The good news is that this is a deep class for linebackers and corners and we should be able to find starters at both positions in the mid-rounds. Dante will always need a quality backup after his surgery, and you could easily make a case for Reeves as well. He didn't start turning his head to make a play on the ball until the end of the season.

I think building a good defense should start in the secondary. Once you have your deep targets covered, you should build up the D-line with some good run-stuffers and pass-rushers to pressure the offense. Then build a quality LB corp that is smart, aggressive, and with good instincts.

We're not far off and could make HUGE improvements through this draft.
Reply With Quote
  #109  
Old 03-21-2009, 03:54 PM
gunn gunn is offline
Veteran Depth
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 149
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzwood View Post
I'm scared as he>* of Matthews!! Can you say Vernon Gholston here we come.

Matthews wasn't even the third best LB at USC, much less a starter until recently. And why is no one mentioning his whopping 5.5 sacks his whole career there in the PAC-10. Drafting Matthews on potential is a colossal risk, more than Vernon was. At least he had 22 sacks his college career. And at 15, a major reach.

He hasn't done anything to warrant a 15th overall selection, besides have a nice combine, IMO. We all know if his name wasn't Matthews we wouldn't even be considering him in the first round. He also has some significant question marks about his maturity level (He created a "White Power" facebook group in 2007 with his buddies). How's he gonna explain that to his future teammates. And don't forget the amount of muscle he's put on in a very short amount of time. Wasn't he a 175lb walk on ?? Cushing's getting more heat over it right now, but the winds will shift to him eventually.
Finally, what position is he really gonna play? OLB in a 4-3. How, he has zero cover skills. So he's only a two down LB. Really? At the end of the day he's really a 3-4 OLB/4-3 DE tweener with very limited starting experience.

I think Jerry or Harvin are much safer picks and would be productive from game 1. Harvin, who is my preferred choice because of the explosiveness he plays with, would give us a level of athleticism and speed this team has never seen on our side of the ball and shift our offense to the same level of our division rival's, the Colts. With Slaton and Harvin in the backfield and AJ, Walters, and Daniels lined up, defenses won't know who to double. Kyle would look like a genius. And Harvin's been tearing it up for years at Florida and comes with a proven track record(bad pun).

Jerry's also been a disruptive force in the same conference, the SEC. He could easily replace Travis Johnson.

This pick needs to be really researched. Our season( and Kubiak's job) depends on it...
Maybe your getting Cushing and Matthews confused. Because at USC, Cush is the guy that didn't play on 3rd down.
Reply With Quote
  #110  
Old 03-21-2009, 03:58 PM
gunn gunn is offline
Veteran Depth
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 149
Default

Also..... you're coming across as if you have and agenda, imo.
Reply With Quote
  #111  
Old 03-21-2009, 06:25 PM
Roy P Roy P is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzwood View Post
Our defense needs to be upgraded and given some quality depth at multiple positions. I know we need probably 2-3 linebackers.

Dante will always need a quality backup after his surgery, and you could easily make a case for Reeves as well. He didn't start turning his head to make a play on the ball until the end of the season.

I think building a good defense should start in the secondary.

Then build a quality LB corp that is smart, aggressive, and with good instincts.

We're not far off and could make HUGE improvements through this draft.
How about this for a draft.

1. CB Vontae Davis Illinois
2. SS Chip Vaughn Wake Forest
3. RB Cedric Peerman Virginia
4. FS David Bruton Notre Dame
4. DE Kyle Moore USC
5. LB Scott McKillop Pittsburgh
6. LB Lee Robinson Alcorn State
7. DE Victor Butler Oregon St
__________________
Originally Posted by chuck
I'm just sitting here thinking (pacing, actually) that whatever my issues with Kubiak he is apparently a goddam genius at tutoring quarterbacks.
Reply With Quote
  #112  
Old 03-21-2009, 08:29 PM
Blitzwood Blitzwood is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunn View Post
Also..... you're coming across as if you have and agenda, imo.
gunn, Yea, my agenda is called "not drafting another project in the first round". Seriously. I can't believe some are cool with it just because of his name, then they wonder why we're 8-8 again.

If it's third and long, and Cush was out, then Matthews was out unless he's bringing the blitz.


Roy,
not bad, although I'm not very high on Vontae in the first. His brother is getting benched by Singletary in the pros, and Vontae got benched as a junior. His character leaves alot to be desired, from what I've read.
Plus Dante and Vontae gets a little redundant

How about:
1. Percy Harvin WR/RB Florida
2. Jarron Gilbert DT/DE SJSU
3. Jarius Byrd CB Oregon
4. Tyrone McKenzie OLB S.Florida
4. David Bruton FS Notre Dame
5. Zack Follett OLB Cal
6. Quin Johnson RB/FB LSU
7. Dallas Reynolds C/OG BYU
Reply With Quote
  #113  
Old 03-21-2009, 09:20 PM
gunn gunn is offline
Veteran Depth
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 149
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzwood View Post
gunn, Yea, my agenda is called "not drafting another project in the first round". Seriously. I can't believe some are cool with it just because of his name, then they wonder why we're 8-8 again.

If it's third and long, and Cush was out, then Matthews was out unless he's bringing the blitz.

Questioning maturity level and bringing steriods into the picture is hardly saying "stay away from a project in round one". Certainly, and I'm going out on limb here, when you have no direct knowledge of either. If you have a reason for not wanting a certain player, it might be better if it's actually legitimate instead of unsubstantiated nonsense.

As per Mike Lombardi, Cushing was on the bench for USC on 3rd downs calling in the question: if he can't play for USC on 3rd down, how is he going to in the NFL?
Reply With Quote
  #114  
Old 03-21-2009, 11:37 PM
Roy P Roy P is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by painekiller View Post
I would be willing to trade out of the 1st round.

Why because there is not a single player I want to pay 1st round money to available when we select.
I'm really trying to figure out a way to accrue some 3rd round picks in this draft.

S Chip Vaughn Wake Forest 6' 1 3/8" 221 4.45
S Patrick Chung Oregon 5' 11" 212 4.49
RB Andre Brown NC State 6' 0 1/8" 224 4.47
RB Rashad Jennings Liberty 6' 1" 231 4.58
RB Shonn Greene Iowa 5' 10.5" 227 4.65
DT Sen'Derrick Marks Auburn 6' 1" 295 5.00
LB Gerald McGrath Southern Miss 6' 2" 231 4.49
TE Shawn Nelson Southern Miss 6' 5" 240 4.52
S Rashad Johnson Alabama 6' 0" 203 4.49
WR Mike Thomas Arizona 5' 8" 195 4.35
LB Dannell Ellerbe Georgia 6' 1" 236 4.63
RB Cedric Peerman Virginia 5' 10" 216 4.39
DE Lawrence Sidbury Richmond 6' 2 3/8" 266 4.57
OC Antoine Caldwell Alabama 6' 4" 307 5.21
LB Cody Brown Connecticut 6' 2" 244 4.76

These are some of the names that I think will be available in the 3rd who can be good players in the NFL. I'm not sure how many Pro-Bowls they will be going to, but I'm pretty sure that they could help our roster.
__________________
Originally Posted by chuck
I'm just sitting here thinking (pacing, actually) that whatever my issues with Kubiak he is apparently a goddam genius at tutoring quarterbacks.
Reply With Quote
  #115  
Old 03-21-2009, 11:55 PM
Blitzwood Blitzwood is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 399
Default

Gunn, at the end of the day he is a project. His skill set could realistically be had in the mid-late rounds. He has the potential to get better, which is why he's being mentioned in the first round. I feel we need help now, especially since we don't have a starter at that position.

Nobody knows for a fact who is using or if anyone is using. It's a topic for debate and speculation. But, you would be a bit naive to think that Matthews was a late bloomer, who physically matured later, and stayed under the radar until his senior season, all while adding 75-80lbs of muscle.
Reply With Quote
  #116  
Old 03-22-2009, 01:04 AM
jppaul jppaul is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 343
Default

I disagree I think he has tremendous upside, 1.49 in the 10 yard is really an amazing number for a 240 pounder. Unbelievable actually. Combined with his tackling ability, pass rush, and upside I definitely think he warrants a first round pick.

I would be happy with him or Cushing. I'm a little torn though, I love Adibi's potential, but I am concerned about his injury history. Diles is really a better fit in the middle. If you believe Adibi can stay healthy then Cushing should be the choice, as I don't believe Matthews best fit is SLB. If you don't then Matthews should be the choice.
Reply With Quote
  #117  
Old 03-22-2009, 10:36 AM
Roy P Roy P is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzwood View Post
His skill set could realistically be had in the mid-late rounds.
See, now this is where you got ahead of yourself.

Clay Matthews USC 6 '3 1/8" 240 4.62 23 35.5 2.64 1.49 10.08 6.9 4.18 68.58 12.57 5.46 0.44

These are the type of numbers that Jonathan Vilma put up at his Combine at 233lbs.

23 - reps, 37" Vertical, 10'1" Jump, 6.7 - Cone, 4.2 - Shuttle.

You won't be finding a mid-late round LB with this type of athleticism, I'm sorry. When it comes to size, explosion, and change of direction, then Matthews is the guy you want in this draft.

Now, I understand the notion of not wanting to spend the #15 pick on a guy who has just burst on the scene. Imagine how Jerry Jones felt when he burned the #11 pick on a kid from Troy who did all of his growing in college. Of course, now he's trying to figure out how many zeros to put into DeMarcus Ware's next contract.
__________________
Originally Posted by chuck
I'm just sitting here thinking (pacing, actually) that whatever my issues with Kubiak he is apparently a goddam genius at tutoring quarterbacks.
Reply With Quote
  #118  
Old 03-22-2009, 12:40 PM
Blitzwood Blitzwood is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy P View Post
See, now this is where you got ahead of yourself.
AHH, no, His skill set can be found in the middle rounds because his technique is not developed for an OLB in a 4-3. He's better, and has played mostly DE or OLB in a 3-4. His skill set and technique is less developed than say Cushings or Sintim for that matter.

I never said anything about his athleticism. Just because you have a test well at the combine doesn't mean you're a great football player. We've all seen that before.

I think Marcus Freeman, who is a really good cover 2 will, is a good example the mid-rounds.

Last edited by Blitzwood; 03-22-2009 at 12:57 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #119  
Old 03-22-2009, 12:52 PM
BigBull BigBull is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 268
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzwood View Post
AHH, no, His skill set can be found in the middle rounds because his technique is not developed for an OLB in a 4-3. He's better, and has played mostly DE or OLB in a 3-4. His skill set and technique is less developed than say Cushings or Sintim for that matter.

I never said anything about his athleticism. Just because you have a test well at the combine doesn't mean you're a great football player. We've all seen that before.
Can you name some examples of these middle round picks that have as good of skills? Just curious.
Reply With Quote
  #120  
Old 03-22-2009, 01:33 PM
gunn gunn is offline
Veteran Depth
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 149
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blitzwood View Post
AHH, no, His skill set can be found in the middle rounds because his technique is not developed for an OLB in a 4-3. He's better, and has played mostly DE or OLB in a 3-4. His skill set and technique is less developed than say Cushings or Sintim for that matter...
How has he played OLB in a 34 when USC runs and always has run an under 43?
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:52 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.