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  #161  
Old 11-20-2013, 02:20 PM
barrett barrett is offline
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I think my point is still being missed. I'm really not talking at all about Keenum's ability to play QB.

NFL Head coaches protect their job and how they look over almost anything else. Almost all of them are afraid to go against prevailing knowledge and only do so when they are desperate or untouchable. A new head coach could draft a QB early and they are almost guaranteed to get 3-4 years to see if that QB can play. Munchak with Locker is a good example where he they picked a QB with less talent than our UDFA, and they still get plenty of patience because they are waiting on the "potential" of the guy the franchise invested too much in to give up on. And in that situation you almost have to keep the HC because the organizational turnover makes it even less likely your top pick suceeds.

With an UDFA that didn't cost the organization anything a coach and QB can be dumped at will because there is no investment financially or in draft picks into the player. So a new coach who takes on Keenum would be saying they already have the QB to win with now. So the new coach starts with immediate expectations and a QB that he didn't pick.

Not to mention if you fail with a guy everybody likes you are forgiven to a certain degree (Shanahan could keep his job this year because who could blame him for drafting RG3), but if you fail with a guy nobody else believed in you get ridiculed (McDaniels with Tebow).

Contrast that with drafting a young and "talented" 1st round QB (who may be worse and/or less talented than Keenum). The rookie draft pick delays expectations and gives built in job security by tying them together.

These are the facts of life in the NFL. Everyone is on a non-gauranteed contract (coaches included) and eveyone is out to CYA, or at least until they get so big they are untouchable. Self interest says a new coach will replace Keenum 9 times out of 10.

I will admit the Wade angle is one I hadn't considered since I thought that any season bad enough to oust Kubiak would remove Wade from the running for HC (although I could see some strange McNair scenario where he sticks as DC). But if Wade does become HC, I could see Case staying with a Dana Hogrolson style young OC.
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  #162  
Old 11-20-2013, 02:25 PM
Joshua Joshua is offline
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And I notice you snuck "statistically" into your claim that Case had a better college career than those guys. I mean, I guess that's true if you only look at career numbers, but by that logic, only guys who stay 4 (or in Case's case-6) years in college can lay claim to having the better college career, when pretty much excludes all the best players because anybody worth a crap anymore comes out, at the latest, when they are juniors, And apparently the conference you play in is totally irrelevant too. Weak sauce.
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  #163  
Old 11-20-2013, 04:59 PM
Arky Arky is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua View Post
And I notice you snuck "statistically" into your claim that Case had a better college career than those guys. I mean, I guess that's true if you only look at career numbers, but by that logic, only guys who stay 4 (or in Case's case-6) years in college can lay claim to having the better college career, when pretty much excludes all the best players because anybody worth a crap anymore comes out, at the latest, when they are juniors, And apparently the conference you play in is totally irrelevant too. Weak sauce.
Dang, you were doing good until you threw this out. I didn't "sneak" anything.

If you want to do the research, just pick Case's individual best year and compare it to any of your prospects best year. I'm guessing only JFF will be close....Re: Conference play, well, ya, Keenum probably had it better in Conference USA - but he dominated..... Isn't that what you want in today's Passing NFL? An (accurate) passing fool? Any moron can hand the ball off..... People dissed his preseason performance because, hey, he was doing it against a bunch scrubs.. I'd say, not exactly..... he was showing he was an NFL'er and they weren't. Undrafted Romo amassed his credentials in Div II. and would be welcome to start for a lot of teams.

Speculation is great message board talk but I just think some of you need to back out of the crystal ball for a while and let this thing play out. And..... one more time, this will make a lot more sense at the end of the season when the coaching decisions are settled...


Barrett: Understood.
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  #164  
Old 11-20-2013, 05:29 PM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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Regarding college passing accuracy, Vince Young led the NCAA in completion percentage his junior year at Texas. I think that's because opponents were scared like crap that he was going to run so why not invite him to pass instead?
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  #165  
Old 11-20-2013, 05:51 PM
barrett barrett is offline
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And with all that said...I'm a HUGE Keenum fan. I am a UH alum, I watched him for parts of SIX years in college, I loved it when the Texans signed him, I almost drooled when I got to watch a Texans QB make an off schedule play the first time he started, I got chills watching him live vs. Indy, and I think he has an NFL future. If that future can be here and include a Superbowl that would be the ultimate dream.

Maybe part of my pessisism is just my fear that I won't get to see that because I am watching some new coach gut this roster because he wants "his" guys.
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  #166  
Old 11-20-2013, 06:18 PM
Nconroe Nconroe is offline
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So what is the problem(s) with second half. Seems like two different teams.

Is it play calling, execution of play calls? Can it get fixed soon?

Last edited by Nconroe; 11-20-2013 at 06:29 PM.
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  #167  
Old 11-20-2013, 07:24 PM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrett View Post

Maybe part of my pessisism is just my fear that I won't get to see that because I am watching some new coach gut this roster because he wants "his" guys.
That's a hazard with any regime change. Some of it depends on whether the GM changes or whether the owner is giving a win-now mandate, etc. There's no guarantee that the next guy, whomever it is, isn't going to clean house - sometimes for better and sometimes for worse.

I'd just like to see Keenum get his chance and I am happy he is getting it. If he doesn't succeed in Houston, maybe he'll get his chance in Buffalo or Tampa or some place.
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  #168  
Old 11-21-2013, 08:07 AM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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BTW, nice to see a long passionate thread around here. Haven't seen one of those in some time although it veered way off the initial subject.
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  #169  
Old 11-21-2013, 09:10 AM
chuck chuck is offline
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Considering barrett's lucid if loquacious observations I guess it's doubly surprising that Kubiak would ever have turned to Keenum in the first place.
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  #170  
Old 11-21-2013, 10:35 AM
nunusguy nunusguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrett View Post
And with all that said...I'm a HUGE Keenum fan. I am a UH alum, I watched him for parts of SIX years in college, I loved it when the Texans signed him, I almost drooled when I got to watch a Texans QB make an off schedule play the first time he started, I got chills watching him live vs. Indy, and I think he has an NFL future. If that future can be here and include a Superbowl that would be the ultimate dream.

Maybe part of my pessisism is just my fear that I won't get to see that because I am watching some new coach gut this roster because he wants "his" guys.
What a surprise. Why did I think you were from back east Barrett, like maybe Boston ?
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  #171  
Old 11-21-2013, 10:47 AM
barrett barrett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
What a surprise. Why did I think you were from back east Barrett, like maybe Boston ?
I posted once upon a time that I was born there and still retain a fondness for the Pats. But I got to Texas as soon as I could (before HS) and have been here my entire adult life and don't plan on ever leaving.
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