Official Senior Bowl Thread

[TexanJedi]

Originally Posted by jppaul

On another note, apart from that fumble, I was really impressed with Peerman, and am interested in him as a complement to Slaton.

Yes, Cedric Peerman has me interested as well. I looked at his college stats and I can't see where he fumbled, ever. He's only listed at 208 but he seemed bigger to me. Whereas Andre Brown is listed at more than 225 but does not run like a big back, if that makes sense.

Lance Zierlein has a chat on his blog with Rob Rang from NFL Draft Scout, and they were discussing the possiblity of Brian Cushing at OLB on most downs and dropping down to pass rushing end on obvious passing situations. I thought that sounded interesting.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by TexanJedi

Lance Zierlein has a chat on his blog with Rob Rang from NFL Draft Scout, and they were discussing the possiblity of Brian Cushing at OLB on most downs and dropping down to pass rushing end on obvious passing situations. I thought that sounded interesting.

I guess LZ has been listening to me for the past 4 years. That's exactly what I want for a SAM. I thought the Texans had bought into the idea when we signed Chaun Thompson. It's why I'm pimpin Cody Brown of UConn this year and Cliff Avril last year and Tim Shaw the year before and Chris Gocong before that.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by NBT

Uhhh, didn't Clay Mathews play for Cleveland? I'm pretty sure he did. I remember he was pretty tough on our Oilers.

I assumed everyone knew who Bruce and Clay Jr. played for in the NFL. The LB at UCS right now is Clay III. I am sorry for any confusion.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by Roy P

I guess LZ has been listening to me for the past 4 years. That's exactly what I want for a SAM. I thought the Texans had bought into the idea when we signed Chaun Thompson. It's why I'm pimpin Cody Brown of UConn this year and Cliff Avril last year and Tim Shaw the year before and Chris Gocong before that.

Didn't you just say that a SAM was a waste of a first round draft pick

[barrett]

Originally Posted by jppaul

Didn't you just say that a SAM was a waste of a first round draft pick

a sam is a waste because they are 2 down players who basically just stick their nose in against the run, which makes it an easy role to fill.

If your SAM puts a hand on the ground and rushes the QB he has a 3rd down value and it changes things quite a bit. But this is a far different skill than blitzing. It is actually lining up at end. Very rarely does a guy do both of these things, but if he is good at SAM and great at rushing the QB, he may be worth a 1st.

[nunusguy]

How about Connor Barwin, the 2-way guy from the U of Cinci ?
Let him be depth as one of our 3-4 TEs (Kubiak hordes TEs), and be in the game on defense to rush the QB. One guy who covers 2 rosters slots, the ultimate utility player. And with that name he could also be a partner in McNairs/the-Texans law firm. So then really three for the price of one ?

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by barrett

a sam is a waste because they are 2 down players who basically just stick their nose in against the run, which makes it an easy role to fill.

If your SAM puts a hand on the ground and rushes the QB he has a 3rd down value and it changes things quite a bit. But this is a far different skill than blitzing. It is actually lining up at end. Very rarely does a guy do both of these things, but if he is good at SAM and great at rushing the QB, he may be worth a 1st.

Lets say you have an SLB who can cover Dallas Clark or Antonio Gates, are they a waste? I understand what you are saying but I think you are wrong about an SLB being a waste. As for SLB as a difference maker, I disagree, they may not be flashy in the way that a MLB is, but if you have ever watched the Texans get torched by a TE, then you can't possibly say that they are not impact players.

Is a CB who blankets recievers but doesn't get a whole lot of picks not an impact player? Impact player encompasses more than flashy stats or topical glory.

I am still hoping we draft Cushing btw, i recognize that that is probably not the course we choose, but there it is.

[Nconroe]

Cushing sounds pretty good. A little injury history. Most currently project him around 23 in draft. Do we take at 15 or hope for a trade down to the likely value position. Sounds like he is a good tackler as well as covers the TE well, and some good size. If we think DL is covered might be good.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by jppaul

Didn't you just say that a SAM was a waste of a first round draft pick

I think we can get a SAM in the 3rd round. The Texans have not utilized the SAM position they way I have proposed though. I'm not quite sure they are looking for a guy to put his hand on the ground on 3rd down, nor is it easy to find a guy who can cover Dallas Clark man to man. It's my opinion that the SAM and the SS could double cover the TE to make up for single coverage by a guy who isn't a CB. Also, if a guy is a threat to rush the passer, the TE may be less likely to go out on a pass pattern and be asked to stay in to protect the QB. A guy like Cody Brown is accustomed to fighting OTs at the line of scrimmage and getting pressure on the QB, so putting him up against a TE seems like an advantage to me. That's why I wouldn't be as inclined to draft Cushing in the 1st round. In fact, I'd only draft Cushing to play the MIKE and then use him like Urlacher and have him be the guy playing the deep 3rd when we went to a Cover-2 Scheme. That is contingent upon his Combine numbers though.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by jppaul

Lets say you have an SLB who can cover Dallas Clark or Antonio Gates, are they a waste? I understand what you are saying but I think you are wrong about an SLB being a waste. As for SLB as a difference maker, I disagree, they may not be flashy in the way that a MLB is, but if you have ever watched the Texans get torched by a TE, then you can't possibly say that they are not impact players.

Is a CB who blankets recievers but doesn't get a whole lot of picks not an impact player? Impact player encompasses more than flashy stats or topical glory.

I am still hoping we draft Cushing btw, i recognize that that is probably not the course we choose, but there it is.

No they are not a waste. They are a WLB or a MLB because nobody puts that guy in that position, they put him where he can make plays.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by barrett

No they are not a waste. They are a WLB or a MLB because nobody puts that guy in that position, they put him where he can make plays.

Is covering Antonio Gates not making a play?

[barrett]

Originally Posted by jppaul

Is covering Antonio Gates not making a play?

That is my point. If a guy is capable of covering Antonio Gates, then he is not playing SLB.

[jppaul]

But if he is at WLB then he is not covering Gates.

[barrett]

Well honestly no LB is covering Gates or the top TEs in man coverage, or at least not well. Those guys are covered by safeties on almost every pass route.

But either way my point is that (1) guys who can cover Antonio Gates 1 on 1 are not playing SLB and (2) NFL teams don't ask their SLB to man up on a TE like gates so its irrelevant. In a 4-3 about %90 of the SLB's job is to fill the hole and tackle in the run game. And they all exit the game in passing situations, and most play less than the nickel corner. They are part time players. It is not a speed position or one that requires huge talent. For the most part it is veteran guys who don't get paid much. Bentley played the role for us very well.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by barrett

Well honestly no LB is covering Gates or the top TEs in man coverage, or at least not well. Those guys are covered by safeties on almost every pass route.

But either way my point is that (1) guys who can cover Antonio Gates 1 on 1 are not playing SLB and (2) NFL teams don't ask their SLB to man up on a TE like gates so its irrelevant. In a 4-3 about %90 of the SLB's job is to fill the hole and tackle in the run game. And they all exit the game in passing situations, and most play less than the nickel corner. They are part time players. It is not a speed position or one that requires huge talent. For the most part it is veteran guys who don't get paid much. Bentley played the role for us very well.

Barrett, I understand your point, I just disagree with you. A SLB who can cover Gates and does cover Gates allows the safety to stay deep, which is an asset because the CHargers run Gates in the seams and the intermediate middle to get the remaining safety to bite so that they can go over the top to Jackson. Having a SLB who can cover him would not be a waste of resources. Sometimes the Broncos use arguably the top corner in the game to cover Gates, that is not a waste of resources, and the question becomes relevant.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by jppaul

Barrett, I understand your point, I just disagree with you. A SLB who can cover Gates and does cover Gates allows the safety to stay deep, which is an asset because the CHargers run Gates in the seams and the intermediate middle to get the remaining safety to bite so that they can go over the top to Jackson. Having a SLB who can cover him would not be a waste of resources. Sometimes the Broncos use arguably the top corner in the game to cover Gates, that is not a waste of resources, and the question becomes relevant.

You're fooling yourself if you think any of the SLB prospects can cover Gates. I'd be suprised if any of the safety prospects can cover the top TEs in the NFL.

As for the SLB position and it's relevance in the NFL, I give you 3 names...Chris Gocong, Marcus Washington, and Danny Clark. Do you know who they are? Don't feel bad if you don't. Nobody does. But they are the starting SLBs on the best 4-3 defenses in the NFL.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by barrett

You're fooling yourself if you think any of the SLB prospects can cover Gates. I'd be suprised if any of the safety prospects can cover the top TEs in the NFL.

As for the SLB position and it's relevance in the NFL, I give you 3 names...Chris Gocong, Marcus Washington, and Danny Clark. Do you know who they are? Don't feel bad if you don't. Nobody does. But they are the starting SLBs on the best 4-3 defenses in the NFL.

Chris Gocong played for the eagles last time I checked. Marcus Washington was another good linebacker that the Colts lost in free agency, and now plays for the Redskins. He has lost a step though and is not nearly as efficient as he used to be. Danny Clark played Strongside for us a couple years ago, I think we got him from the Raiders, although I am not sure where he ended up, we let him depart via free agency.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by barrett

You're fooling yourself if you think any of the SLB prospects can cover Gates. I'd be suprised if any of the safety prospects can cover the top TEs in the NFL.

As for the SLB position and it's relevance in the NFL, I give you 3 names...Chris Gocong, Marcus Washington, and Danny Clark. Do you know who they are? Don't feel bad if you don't. Nobody does. But they are the starting SLBs on the best 4-3 defenses in the NFL.

Lets try a name: D.J. Williams? You probably should feel bad if you don't recognize that one?

Granted, there is not alot of name recognition with SLB but they certainly serve an important role. That being noted I am alright with Drafting Cushing and putting him on the WLB. Adibi is a good prospect but I have questions about his ability to stay healthy.

I would take him in the first, Michael Johnson or Paul Kruger in the second, Rashad Johnson or Patrick Chung in the third, Myron Pryor or Jarron Gilbert in the fourth, Pat White or Rhett Bhomar in the fifth, Graham Cano in the 6th, Deandre Wright in the 7th.

Then the LB core would look like:

[barrett]

Originally Posted by jppaul

Lets try a name: D.J. Williams? You probably should feel bad if you don't recognize that one?

Granted, there is not alot of name recognition with SLB but they certainly serve an important role. That being noted I am alright with Drafting Cushing and putting him on the WLB. Adibi is a good prospect but I have questions about his ability to stay healthy.

I would take him in the first, Michael Johnson or Paul Kruger in the second, Rashad Johnson or Patrick Chung in the third, Myron Pryor or Jarron Gilbert in the fourth, Pat White or Rhett Bhomar in the fifth, Graham Cano in the 6th, Deandre Wright in the 7th.

Then the LB core would look like:

And do you know what the Broncos got for the 1st round pick they invested in Williams? All of 6.5 sacks and 2 INTs in 5 years. Now he plays solid, but that is just my point. SLB is a place to put a solid guy. If you put an athlete there, you are wasting them. They simply don't get a chance to make plays.

Now if you want Cushing in particular and think he can play the WLB, then I won't argue with you. I don't know enough about him to say, but if he can, then I could see picking him in the right circumstance. The WLB is still not a huge impact position in the 4-3, but they are 3 down players who have chances to make plays, so if a guy is a great enough WLB, they could have a 1st round impact. I would still go another direction unless BPA clearly indicated he was head and shoulders above the available DL and FS prospects, but a great WLB could be a big plus for us.

But a "great" SLB is just not worth a 1st round pick if you plan to play him at SLB.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by barrett

And do you know what the Broncos got for the 1st round pick they invested in Williams? All of 6.5 sacks and 2 INTs in 5 years. Now he plays solid, but that is just my point. SLB is a place to put a solid guy. If you put an athlete there, you are wasting them. They simply don't get a chance to make plays.

Now if you want Cushing in particular and think he can play the WLB, then I won't argue with you. I don't know enough about him to say, but if he can, then I could see picking him in the right circumstance. The WLB is still not a huge impact position in the 4-3, but they are 3 down players who have chances to make plays, so if a guy is a great enough WLB, they could have a 1st round impact. I would still go another direction unless BPA clearly indicated he was head and shoulders above the available DL and FS prospects, but a great WLB could be a big plus for us.

But a "great" SLB is just not worth a 1st round pick if you plan to play him at SLB.

Again we will disagree, and I will agree to disagree in order to stop wasting other readers time, with our disagreement.

On another note, some of the WLB's who do make an impact inlcude: Derrick Brooks, Lance Briggs, A.J. Hawk, Keith Bulluck, etc.

None of the FS prospects seem to be worth the #15 pick, and although several of the D-line prospects are worth that pick, I would go a different direction.