Official Senior Bowl Thread

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by jppaul

you don't? Seriously, Barrett? Give me a break. Another Hypo you have had the first overall selection 4 times and youve drafted all DL. Can you imagine the cap ramifications?

That is a bit extreme obviously, but you are lying to yourself if you think, that cap ramifications don't factor in.

Cap ramifications do factor in, and there is little doubt that NFL teams have players that are taken with low draft picks where they are making up where their cap dollars are invested; however, OL and DL are the 2 most important positions on the team. They are the building blocks of a franchise, so justifying cap space for 8-9 slots is warranted. Also, in Barretts example, although extreme, let's be real. If you took 15 straight DL, not all 15 would be there tying up cap space. The same is going to be true of us. Anthony Weaver will be gone in the near future, and possibly Travis Johnson as well. So, the future of the DL, if Raji is drafted, won't be like having all these guys plus him. Granted, it is frustrating drafting all these guys and seeing little results. I still have high hopes for Okoye......

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Seriously that raises an question that always puzzled me ? Why did Capers have so much trouble finding a really effective, stud pass-rush OLB for
his 3-4 ?
Watching this weeks Senior-Bowl practice, there were gobs of those prospects out there in the 235-255 lb range who had the kinda quicks off the edge to play the position.

Gobs of prospects don't always translate into legitimate NFL players. Mike Mayock is intrigued by English from N. Illinois. However, Robert Brewster of Ball State shut him down. Therefore, I am not impressed by the level of competetion that he faced.

While I like Cody Brown, I'm not 100% sure that he would be the next Joey Porter, much less DeMarcus Ware. There are more Matt Roths and Dan Bazuins in the draft than Shawne Merrimans. Sidbury and Veikune could be more like Ken Pettway and Travis Laboy than Shaun Phillips.

Trying to project a college DE into a standup OLB is pretty tricky business.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by barrett

If you take 15 straight DL and at the end of it DL is still the worst position on your team, then DL would still clearly be in play for the 16th draft. You don't play draft slots and contracts. You evaluate how your team plays on the field and look where you need to get better.

If you look at actual play on the field, DL is one of our worst 2 position groups so it should be one of our priorities to upgrade (along with secondary). This does NOT mean we should draft a DL in the first round. It DOES mean we should not rule out drafting a DL in the first round. If it comes to our pick and a DL is the best player on our board, I would expect us to take him. If not I would expect to see a DE in the 2nd or 3rd round.

You said you had a serious question asking why we would take a DL again and this is a serious answer. Why don't you tell us a few positions that are more in need of an upgrade on our team and what direction we should be going in round 1. I'll accept safety, but I don't see anywhere else where we need help more.

I am not saying that DL is not a need rather that you can find talent other places than the first round of the draft, and that given our track record, we would be well advised to look elsewhere.

Which is why I have been advocating for Michael Johnson in the second.

Additionally, I think our biggest need this year transcends any one position. We need an impact player, someone that comes in and makes a big splash, and the easiest area to do that is LB, which is why Vilma, Willis and Demeco were all DROY.

The value in the draft would also lie in LB at 15. I like either Maluluaga or Cushing personally. Cushing could play strongside, with Malualaga you might have to make some moves.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by jppaul

The value in the draft would also lie in LB at 15. I like either Maluluaga or Cushing personally. Cushing could play strongside, with Malualaga you might have to make some moves.

Drafting a SAM in the 1st round is a mistake. Try to name a "difference maker" who plays that position in the NFL. I would like to add some talent at the position, but wouldn't use higher than a 3rd round pick for it.

Malualaga might add something to the defense. However, since we have Ryans, that makes even less sense than drafting a NT. Sure, you could move DeMeco to the WILL, but the GM just drafted Adibi, so why keep adding to the LB corps?

[NBT]

Because it might just work! As you say it's hard to tell this time of year. All we can do is speculate. So speculate on.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by sinnister

Bruce and Clay Matthews were brothers. I was wondering about the connection myself. Both played at USC if I remember correctly.

Clay Matthews Sr played for 49ers.
His two sons Clay Jr. and Bruce both played at USC and then in the NFL.

Clay's son Clay III, was a walk on at USC and this season became a starter, and difference maker.

BTW Bruce has a son playing OC at Texas A&M.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Drafting a SAM in the 1st round is a mistake. Try to name a "difference maker" who plays that position in the NFL. I would like to add some talent at the position, but wouldn't use higher than a 3rd round pick for it.

Malualaga might add something to the defense. However, since we have Ryans, that makes even less sense than drafting a NT. Sure, you could move DeMeco to the WILL, but the GM just drafted Adibi, so why keep adding to the LB corps?

The evolution of positions in the NFL game is interesting, remember when the FB was the best runner in the backfield? Guys like Czonka, Harris. But the salary cap has changed everything, now the FB is a throwaway position, heck most cannot even run a pass route.

An interesting trend in college is the spread offense. And college defenses are getting smaller to deal with the spread. Now if 80% of the colleges go with the smaller quicker defense, how will that effect the drafting of defensive players? Also remember the 3-4 usually is about putting bigger guys on the field. Plus sized NTs, Plus sized DEs, plus sized Lbs. Where is the NFL going to find that player when the college go to speed defenses?

I am tired of our team following the trends, become a trail blazer, develop something unique. Make the other team react to you.

Why not bring back the 2 back sets where both guys carry the ball? Why not have two 3-gap DTs playing at the same time and both attaching the ball.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by painekiller

I am tired of our team following the trends, become a trail blazer, develop something unique. Make the other team react to you.

.

Here's my idea. I call it the 5-1-5. The anchor is like the 3-4 in that I put a 320lb bull right on the C. I have him flanked by two 3-Techniques that are required to fire into the backfield. On the left of the line is where I have a large pass rusher that would be like Mario or Julius Peppers. On the other side, I would have a tweener who would be similar to an OLB in that he would sometimes be asked to drop in coverage on a TE or a RB. The LB is a large fellow that can play in space. Perhaps a guy who had played SS at some point before becoming 245lbs. Having 5 DL in front of him, should allow him to attack sideline to sideline. Considering the lack of LBs on the field, I'll need strong tacklers in the secondary. Since they probably won't have elite quickness to play man all day, they have to have good zone awareness and ball skills to boot. My FS will need to roam Centerfield to pick up anything that gets through. I'll have one FS who is almost a CB while the SS is almost a WLB.

Mario Williams------Amobi Okoye------BJ Raji------Darryl Richard------Cody Brown

--------------------------------------Brian Cushing
Fred Bennett -----------------------------------------------------------------Keenan Lewis
-------------------- Keith Fitzhugh------------------------Antwaun Molden
---------------------------------------C.J. Spillman

I'm not advocating that we trade DeMeco, just an idea of what a new defense would look like that was built to play against passing offenses, while still being effective vs. the run.

[Nconroe]

interesting ideas for changing up the defenses, I was thinking CB's should all have man-man skills, hard to find the speed and size combo, I realize that. I guess with our new coaches we will see some changes for sure this year. Seems Baltimore, a few others put 8 in the box to get a lot of their pressure, and then pressure comes so fast it works. Is Baltimore and Pittsburg and NYG big guys, seems that is working pretty well.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Roy P

However, since we have Ryans, that makes even less sense than drafting a NT. Sure, you could move DeMeco to the WILL, but the GM just drafted Adibi, so why keep adding to the LB corps?

There was a little sarcasm in this part of my post. I was responding to a similar "logic" for not drafting a DL.

Perhaps I'm getting more pessimistic and cynical as I go through this every year. For some reason, I'm not exceptionally fired up about many of the prospects. All I am seeing is projects and not difference makers in this group.

Raji appeared pretty impressive during the week, but in the game today, he was pretty quiet. Peria Jerry had a pretty good showing, but I'm hesitant to wanting to draft another player like Okoye or Travis Johnson. The LBs in the game were marginal (including the USC group). TE Pettigrew was lackluster.

I'm trying to formulate a My Guys list and it might be short.

WR Crabtree
WR Maclin
LB Curry
NT Raji
DT Jerry

There's my 1st round picks. If all 5 are off the board, I'm trading down if possible.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by Roy P

There was a little sarcasm in this part of my post. I was responding to a similar "logic" for not drafting a DL.

Roy maybe i am a little slow but huh?

[James]

No feel for the outside rushers that could be available? Maybin or Brown? Maclin, Raji, and Jerry could be available at our draft slot, likely only one of them, does that discount what a true outside rusher would add to the defense immediately? Brown is more ready than Maybin, except, perhaps, in your 5-1-5. Orakpo should be gone. I'm all for adding picks, but if one of these guys can come in and add 10 total sacks (as a whole for the defense) and 20 more pressures, is that not the difference between 8-8 and 11-5?

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Gobs of prospects don't always translate into legitimate NFL players. Mike Mayock is intrigued by English from N. Illinois. However, Robert Brewster of Ball State shut him down. Therefore, I am not impressed by the level of competetion that he faced.

While I like Cody Brown, I'm not 100% sure that he would be the next Joey Porter, much less DeMarcus Ware. There are more Matt Roths and Dan Bazuins in the draft than Shawne Merrimans. Sidbury and Veikune could be more like Ken Pettway and Travis Laboy than Shaun Phillips.

Trying to project a college DE into a standup OLB is pretty tricky business.

True. But IMO it's still tougher to find a guy coming out of college who has got what it takes to play DE in the 4-3 where you've got to be able to have the quicks to rush the QB from the edge and still be big & strong enough to defense the run.
BTW, about last nights game, I could have sworn I saw Raji on the field once or twice but I dunno if I heard his name a single time ? The guy looked great in practice this week but apparently left Mobile before last nights kickoff ?
Slatons former QB teammate pretty much guaranteed himself a spot in the Draft someplace in the first 2 rounds after last nights performance, though the verdict is still out about him playing QB.
I don't think Graham Harrell will be sending Mike Mayoc a Christmas card this year ? Mayoc really trashed his performance, not that it wasn't evident for the whole football world to see.
I thought Bomar was impressive despite fumbing in the EZ thereby letting the D recover and score a TD. He's got a strong arm and showed his athleticism
in a couple scrambles out of the pocket. I dunno, is he there for us in the third-round ?

[TexanJedi]

I would avoid any QB at the Senior Bowl except for Pat White. He's got the arm and legs but is he big enough and can he read an NFL defense? Bomar is just not accurate enough for Kubiak's offense. Harrell looks like he has a weak arm and bad mechanics. The kid from Central Arkansas was in over his head.

At running back the best to me was Rashad Jennings for Liberty. He would make for a nice complement to Slaton. Andre Brown looks like a nice prospect but when he was dancing in hole. I had flashbacks of Jonathan Wells.

The best DT last night was Mitch King from Iowa, though Jerry had a couple of good plays. Mayock was high on Raji and seems to think he won't get past us at 15. The South interior linemen did a nice job against him and the rest of the North tackles.

In the secondary, Eugene Chung looked like the best safety. Moore from Mizzou did not look good. I want to think his senior season was an anomaly and he can be the player he was as a junior. Maybe he can and some team will get a steal, but that remains to be seen. I had Dunta flashbacks with the smaller safety from Western Michigan.

Maualuga and Cushing at times looked like beasts at linebacker.

The defensive end from Tennessee and Larry English looked like the best pass rushers.

Anyway, that's one man's opinion.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by TexanJedi

The best DT last night was Mitch King from Iowa, though Jerry had a couple of good plays. Mayock was high on Raji and seems to think he won't get past us at 15. The South interior linemen did a nice job against him and the rest of the North tackles.


Moore from Mizzou did not look good. I want to think his senior season was an anomaly and he can be the player he was as a junior. Maybe he can and some team will get a steal, but that remains to be seen.

After re-watching the game, Raji was getting doubled many times, leaving Mitch King to look like Warren Sapp. On the goal line when Mayock mentioned Raji "got handled" by Eric Wood, it was actually King who got run over by Tyronne Green that allowed Andre Brown to score easily.

Jeria Perry got good penetration and pressured the QB several times. He also batted a ball down. I'm wondering if he'd be an upgrade over TJ if Raji is off the board and if the Texans are through with TJs attitude.

Moore left the game with an ankle injury. I'm not a Dr. but this kid has played hurt his entire Senior year. If he goes to Indy and the Dr's go through his medical history, I wonder how far he will drop. Can he come back and play like his Junior year, or is he just going to be on IR during his pro career?

[NBT]

Originally Posted by painekiller

Clay Matthews Sr played for 49ers.
His two sons Clay Jr. and Bruce both played at USC and then in the NFL.

Clay's son Clay III, was a walk on at USC and this season became a starter, and difference maker.

BTW Bruce has a son playing OC at Texas A&M.

Uhhh, didn't Clay Mathews play for Cleveland? I'm pretty sure he did. I remember he was pretty tough on our Oilers.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by NBT

Uhhh, didn't Clay Mathews play for Cleveland? I'm pretty sure he did. I remember he was pretty tough on our Oilers.

The Clay Matthews that played for the Browns as a LB was the son of Clay Sr., who played for the 49ers.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by Roy P

After re-watching the game, Raji was getting doubled many times, leaving Mitch King to look like Warren Sapp. On the goal line when Mayock mentioned Raji "got handled" by Eric Wood, it was actually King who got run over by Tyronne Green that allowed Andre Brown to score easily.

I was watching that play and I saw a player with a BC helmet get shunted to the side. I wouldn't call it manhandled but it was an effective block. I think it was Raji but I would have to rewatch to make sure it wasn't Brace.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by jppaul

I was watching that play and I saw a player with a BC helmet get shunted to the side. I wouldn't call it manhandled but it was an effective block. I think it was Raji but I would have to rewatch to make sure it wasn't Brace.

Raji did get shunted to the side, but it was King who got pancaked allowing Brown to go into the endzone. Would it have been nice to see Raji shed his block and make the tackle? Yeah. However, if he had another 300lbs DT next to him, I'm not sure if the TD is scored.

There were several plays during the game that I watched closely to see. For example, when JP Wilson scored his TD on a draw play, the Middle LB (McKillop or Follett) got blocked after Raji and King parted ways leaving the middle open. I saw some hestitation in Marcus Freeman, Brian Cushing, Tyrone McKenzie, and others that I did not like along with some poor tackling. Clint Sintim really dissapointed me for somebody who is consistently ranked as a 1st round prospect.

The three guys who impressed me the most were Peria Jerry, Robert Ayers, and Cody Brown. If they were our 1st 3 picks of the draft, that would suit me just fine. The best tackler I saw this week was Scott McKillop in terms of wrapping up and taking on backs head on. Patrick Chung and Alphonso Smith moved up in terms of Secondary prospects.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Raji did get shunted to the side, but it was King who got pancaked allowing Brown to go into the endzone. Would it have been nice to see Raji shed his block and make the tackle? Yeah. However, if he had another 300lbs DT next to him, I'm not sure if the TD is scored.

Even if he did Raji still lost his battle, one that if he had won, might have resulted in a stop. King is more of a DT who plays in non-short yardage situations. He is only 265, and is going to get manhandled everytime in those situations.

On another note, apart from that fumble, I was really impressed with Peerman, and am interested in him as a complement to Slaton.