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  #61  
Old 04-28-2017, 11:02 AM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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What a bunch of Debbie Downers! Heck, right up the road is a fourth-round QB who played his college ball at the Aggieland of Missi-friggin-sippi and he's able to dominate the NFL. Not that I expect such a perfect storm here but O'Brien can dumb down the offense for Watson in Year One and gradually add back in the playbook. BTW, how did we look with that QB from Hah-vuhd?

If someone told me you could rid yourself of Brock Osweiler and draft a Heisman runner-up QB, all it would cost you is two 1sts, a 2nd, a 6th and perhaps some self-respect, I would have asked what else was on the menu.

Would it have been better to keep Ozzie on the roster one more year and eat $17 million but keep all our picks?

Would it have made more sense to sign Kaepernick for a year and concentrate on rebuilding the OL while developing a QB like Davis Webb?

I'm just pointing out some options here. It's too late to change anything now but I'm okay with Watson at QB for our future. I just wish it hadn't cost so much to get there. At least it wasn't Mahomes.

So, all right, we've mortgaged the 2018 draft. Let's make the most of this one and move forward.
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  #62  
Old 04-28-2017, 11:37 AM
Joshua Joshua is offline
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I'm fine with it.

The price was steep but it is the going rate to move up that far. The last couple of years has shown that the overall team is good enough that we will likely be drafting somewhere in the 20s for the foreseeable future. Any QB that falls into the 20s will have considerable warts. Hell, between the current style of play in college and players leaving early, virtually every QB has significant questions about them. So, we had 2 choices- (1) stand pat and draft an extremely warty QB in the late 1st/2nd/etc. and hope you know something no one else does (read: get very lucky) or (2) move up for one of the better, yet still somewhat questionable, prospects. I just don't see any other realistic options for them drafting a QB in the next couple years. They chose path 2 and the cost for that is a 1st next year. Now we wait and hope Deshaun pans out.
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  #63  
Old 04-28-2017, 11:56 AM
Keith Keith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Watson played in a one-look offense. He didn't read the defense and then stand there and scan the field. He had the place he was going to go and there he went.
I'm not sure what college doesn't do this crap anymore. Seems like you are waiting for an ideal that does not exist.

A difference in opinion, but I'd prefer the team do what they did (specifically, jettison Osweiler and invest in a good rookie while Savage babysits) than punt the problem ANOTHER year and go with Cutler/Kaepernick/Godknowswhat.

Is it a gamble? Hell yes. But your alternative is none better in 2017 (wait, unless you think Cutler is a Super Bowl QB) and only makes 2018 seem like another lost year. 2018 may still be lost if Watson doesn't make the transition, but at least there is hope in the meantime.
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  #64  
Old 04-28-2017, 12:10 PM
Keith Keith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPF Bob View Post
So, all right, we've mortgaged the 2018 draft. Let's make the most of this one and move forward.
I think this is what hurts the doubters. No first and second round picks in 2018. And if the Texans have done one thing well in the Rick Smith years, it has been their ability to nail first round picks. All of them are still on the roster, all the way back until his first one, Amobi Okoye.

But for all the first round success over the years, the Texans have zero hardware to show for it. It's now a QB league, a passing league. And all the extra #1s sitting on the roster that don't play QB will keep getting the Texans into the playoffs but not to the last game of the season. The Texans have tried long enough to win without a QB.

Another 9- or 10- (or 11...) win season in 2017 would mean a similar scenario for the Texans in the 2018 draft... picking in the back half of the round. So if this mystical college QB were available, the one that played in an NFL-style in offense while possessing impeccable accuracy, cannon-fire arm strength and natural-born leadership, then the team would have to mortgage three drafts to move up to #1 to get him, assuming a team sitting at #1 would even answer the phone call to talk about trading down 20+ picks.
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  #65  
Old 04-28-2017, 01:57 PM
Arky Arky is offline
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Well, after doing some research, the 17 INTs went along with 41 TDs. I can live with the 41 TDs. (Reminds me of the old Mae West line: "6'7", huh? I don't care about the 6', let's talk about the 7").

41 TDs, 17 INTs is better than a 2:1 ratio. For his career, Watson was 90 TDs and 32 INT's and that is almost a 3:1 ratio. He's a passing fool. At the very least, he should be able to dink and dunk with the best of them (certainly better than Oz).

He's got much to learn. Obviously, the NFL is way different than college but he sounds like a baller so he should be able to adapt. Just hope that they develop him constructively....
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  #66  
Old 04-28-2017, 02:06 PM
Arky Arky is offline
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As for the 2018 draft, teams have survived something like this before. Losing the 1st and 2nd picks hurt but that can be worked around by drafting well in the other rounds and free agency. If they do it right, it can be reduced to just a small blip on the long term radar....
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  #67  
Old 04-28-2017, 03:26 PM
nunusguy nunusguy is offline
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Watching a presser on NFLNet with Watson's intro to the city and he's gonna be wearing jersey # 4 according to the report so I'm gonna count that as a good omen since it's not gonna be, whew, # 8.

Last edited by nunusguy; 04-28-2017 at 03:31 PM.
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  #68  
Old 04-28-2017, 03:47 PM
bikerack bikerack is offline
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I was reminded of the old Bill Parcells rules for selecting a QB...

Quote:
1. The quarterback must be a senior. . .because you need time and maturity to develop into a good professional quarterback
2. He must be a graduate. . .because you want somebody that takes their responsibilities seriously.
3. He must be a three-year starter. . .because you want to make sure his success wasn't a fluke and to know that he has been "the guy" for a significant period of time.
4. He must have 23 wins. . .because big numbers don't mean a whole lot if you don't win.
1. Watson was a junior.
2. He did graduate...
3. He was a 3-yr starter but his first yr was cut short by injury.
4. Clemson won 38 games in his 3 years...even when you take out the ones he was injured for, it is over 23.
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  #69  
Old 04-28-2017, 03:59 PM
Joshua Joshua is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerack View Post
I was reminded of the old Bill Parcells rules for selecting a QB...



1. Watson was a junior.
2. He did graduate...
3. He was a 3-yr starter but his first yr was cut short by injury.
4. Clemson won 38 games in his 3 years...even when you take out the ones he was injured for, it is over 23.
That quote just shows how much the football landscape has changed in the last 20 years. I'm not sure we'll ever see a QB at a powerhouse school satisfy this criteria again.
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  #70  
Old 04-28-2017, 04:16 PM
chuck chuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith View Post
I'm not sure what college doesn't do this crap anymore. Seems like you are waiting for an ideal that does not exist.
That's probably true. I don't watch nearly as much college football as most of you likely do, and if the number of schools running bs offenses has risen from some to virtually all of them, well, I guess I'm reminded of one reason I don't watch a lot of college football.

I never, ever, advocated keeping BO on the team next year, by the way. I wanted to cut him as soon as financially prudent and eat the twenty million or whatever it was to get his ass off the team and away from the building. I'm still puzzled at the FO's sending the Browns a valuable pick to clear cap space that they apparently aren't planning to use this year. (Yes, I know it carries over to next year but I'd kind of like to win now rather than at some vague point in an imaginary future.)
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  #71  
Old 04-28-2017, 06:40 PM
barrett barrett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
That's probably true. I don't watch nearly as much college football as most of you likely do, and if the number of schools running bs offenses has risen from some to virtually all of them, well, I guess I'm reminded of one reason I don't watch a lot of college football.
Yes, it is most. Like I said, even Nick Saban gave in. College football now looks like Friday night in Texas with bigger faster athletes. The overall talent is still low enough and disparate enough that putting your best athlete in space near the LOS is more reliable than trying to connect on a timing route downfield. Plus you don't have to worry about the long term health of your QB in college. So the few teams that resemble a pro style offense are the exception not the norm, and most of them aren't good enough to have a top talent at QB anyways.

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Originally Posted by chuck View Post
I never, ever, advocated keeping BO on the team next year, by the way. I wanted to cut him as soon as financially prudent and eat the twenty million or whatever it was to get his ass off the team and away from the building. I'm still puzzled at the FO's sending the Browns a valuable pick to clear cap space that they apparently aren't planning to use this year. (Yes, I know it carries over to next year but I'd kind of like to win now rather than at some vague point in an imaginary future.)
This makes more sense. I agree the trade to CLE looks weird without the accompanying financial moves that trade should have allowed. I am assuming a deal for Hopkins is a big part of that.
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  #72  
Old 04-28-2017, 07:04 PM
chuck chuck is offline
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I basically quit watching college football right around the time the zone read came into fashion. Another thing I love is the line up and pretend to run a play and then step back and wait for some asshole in a visor to signal in the call.

If that ever seeps its way into the NFL, well, you guys won't have me to kick around anymore.

Christ, reading back over this I sound like my grandfather. Minus the segregationist tendencies.
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  #73  
Old 04-28-2017, 07:16 PM
barrett barrett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
I basically quit watching college football right around the time the zone read came into fashion. Another thing I love is the line up and pretend to run a play and then step back and wait for some asshole in a visor to signal in the call.

If that ever seeps its way into the NFL, well, you guys won't have me to kick around anymore.

Christ, reading back over this I sound like my grandfather. Minus the segregationist tendencies.
What cracks me up is the teams that rush up to the line like that are usually bad at running the actual hurry up. All they know how to do is run to the line and stare at the sideline.
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  #74  
Old 05-04-2017, 07:33 PM
Warren Warren is offline
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The stricter practice and meeting time limits in college definitely make a difference. When Mike Sherman moved from the Texans to A&M he talked about that being the biggest adjustment that he had to make. After his first season he consulted with one of the top Texas high school spread coaches (I think it was Chad Morris, then of Lake Travis, later Clemson (where he recruited Watson), and now SMU) about how to make his pro system easier to communicate and digest for the college game.

Here's a story about what went into the Texans' pick of Watson. Nothing groundbreaking, although I was mildly surprised to read, given The deBrockle, that O'Brien wasn't at the team's dinner with Watson during his pre-draft visit to Houston. He may have spent the rest of the day with him, though.
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  #75  
Old 05-04-2017, 08:14 PM
painekiller painekiller is offline
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Originally Posted by Warren View Post
Here's a story about what went into the Texans' pick of Watson. Nothing groundbreaking, although I was mildly surprised to read, given The deBrockle, that O'Brien wasn't at the team's dinner with Watson during his pre-draft visit to Houston. He may have spent the rest of the day with him, though.
O'Brien was with Watson all day, he only left when he left to go to his son's little league game. Which IMO is OK.
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  #76  
Old 05-04-2017, 11:28 PM
chuck chuck is offline
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O'Brien was with Watson all day, he only left when he left to go to his son's little league game. Which IMO is OK.
Without even having read it I knew that if BOB wasn't there his absence had something to do with one of his sons. Most of you - all of you - probably know, but BOB has a son with special needs. From what little I have seen it appears that BOB is the best possible dad to that child. So every time he calls some dumbshit play or fks up clock management in a key situation or whatever, after I calm down I remind myself that he seems to have some of the more important stuff nailed. And that counts for something, at least to me.

I used to do a lot of snow skiing, downhill skiing. I'd lose my shit when they'd stop the lift. I imagined some dumbass who really should be skiing on the beginner's patch they have down by the parking lot falling off while trying to get on the lift or falling off while trying to slide off. And a lot of the time that's exactly what's happening. But once I happened to be within sight of what was going on during a lift stoppage. They loaded a disabled skier onto the lift. I'd seen plenty of skiers zipping around that don't have the use of their legs; they sit in this sort of mini-catamaran contraption and they get around just fine. But it had never occurred to me to wonder how they hell they get up the mountain. So now I knew. Anyway, from then on every time the lift lurched to a halt I'd just imagine the stoners below loading some guy and his catamaran onto the lift and I could sit there swinging contentedly.
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  #77  
Old 05-05-2017, 01:06 PM
painekiller painekiller is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Without even having read it I knew that if BOB wasn't there his absence had something to do with one of his sons. Most of you - all of you - probably know, but BOB has a son with special needs. From what little I have seen it appears that BOB is the best possible dad to that child. So every time he calls some dumbshit play or fks up clock management in a key situation or whatever, after I calm down I remind myself that he seems to have some of the more important stuff nailed. And that counts for something, at least to me.
Thank you for sharing this entire post, nice to see another side.
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  #78  
Old 05-05-2017, 03:15 PM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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He better keep a swear jar around junior.
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  #79  
Old 05-05-2017, 05:21 PM
barrett barrett is offline
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Quote:
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He better keep a swear jar around junior.
Great way to follow up a post about a guy being a good father to a special needs kid.
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  #80  
Old 05-05-2017, 07:16 PM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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Great way to follow up a post about a guy being a good father to a special needs kid.
Fair and balanced.
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