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  #41  
Old 04-27-2017, 09:49 PM
nunusguy nunusguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nconroe View Post
I love the Watson pick for QB. Super leader.
Seems some others on the Board have a couple reservations about the pick Nconroe, but I really don't have any idea what kind of an NFL QB Watson will be ?
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  #42  
Old 04-27-2017, 09:58 PM
bikerack bikerack is offline
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From my friend....

"This pick was all OB. If he goes down, it will be swinging. Watson was the most mature kid I met this draft season."
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  #43  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:01 PM
Nconroe Nconroe is offline
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Nobody know for sure. I heard earlier in evening of last 21 QB drafted in first round, 4 seem franchise good but haven't won SB. Eight are out of league already.

Got this analysis off Jets site.
PRO: He's a winner
There is no doubt about this. He led Clemson to a monumental win in the national championship game this past season against Alabama. Watson played with poise throughout the game, in which he completed 36 of 56 passes for 420 yards, three touchdowns, and zero interceptions. That is impressive, big-game stuff.

CON: Interceptions
He threw 17 of them last season and 13 in 2015. The Jets have experienced major problems in recent seasons with their quarterbacks throwing too many interceptions from Mark Sanchez to Geno Smith to Ryan Fitzpatrick. If the Jets draft Watson, will they be able to cut down on his picks?

Deshaun Watson's scouting report
From NFL.com: "Teams will have to weigh the inconsistent field vision and decision-making against his size, athleticism, leadership and production. While not perfect, teams can add checks to both arm and accuracy boxes for Watson. However, discussions about whether or not his areas of improvement can be corrected will likely determine whether a team will view him as a high-upside prospect or a franchise quarterback. Watson's transition from Clemson's offense to a pro-style attack will obviously take time, but his combination of intangibles and athletic ability make him worth a first-round selection."
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  #44  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:03 PM
popanot popanot is offline
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I would not be surprised to see the Texans trade a #3 or some combo to get a 2018 #2.
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  #45  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:04 PM
Keith Keith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerack View Post
From my friend....

"This pick was all OB. If he goes down, it will be swinging. Watson was the most mature kid I met this draft season."
Thanks again for sharing. Virtual beer headed your way.
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  #46  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:07 PM
Arky Arky is offline
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Yeah, the 17 INT's bother me.

They should sit him for entire year, IMO (or very, very limited real time). I don't think he should be thrown to the wolves. Let Savage take his shot this year....
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  #47  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:07 PM
chuck chuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerack View Post
From my friend....

"This pick was all OB. If he goes down, it will be swinging. Watson was the most mature kid I met this draft season."
I'm completely astounded by all of this. Watson seems to be light years away from what BOB would want from a quarterback. That's one thing. Another thing, if he thinks this is his last year I would think that he'd rather find someone who can make an impact right away, a corner or a tackle or whatever. That would help the 2017 team and thus presumably help his future chances elsewhere.

Also, if he's out at the end of the year why the hell would the organization pick a quarterback that BOB wants? That makes no sense. Why would they accept his input and then TRADE UP to do so?

I would have thought that BOB would have wanted to play the BO game all over again, you know, I never wanted this guy so it's not my fault that he sucks.

And if BOB has this sort of weight on draft day why the hell wouldn't he have taken a quarterback a year or two or three ago? He knew he needed one.

I appreciate the insight, br, I'm just befuddled by all of this.
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  #48  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:08 PM
barrett barrett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerack View Post
From my friend....

"This pick was all OB. If he goes down, it will be swinging. Watson was the most mature kid I met this draft season."
That is great to hear. My biggest desire all along is that OB bet on a QB. This is certainly that.

I'm also happy to see Watson be genuinely excited to come here. If you think you're a top half of the draft QB, then being handed the job on a playoff team with historically bad QB play is like hitting the lottery.
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  #49  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:13 PM
bikerack bikerack is offline
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Apparently, at the end of his visit, Watson looked BOB in the eye and said something to the effect of "the most important thing for a champ team is the head coach - QB relationship". (That was from Chris Mortensen...not my friend.)

Must've made an impression....especially after what I have heard about Brock behind the scenes.
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  #50  
Old 04-27-2017, 10:20 PM
chuck chuck is offline
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If this is what BOB winning against Ricky on draft day looks like then I don't know...

https://cdn0.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/Nwg...19/HAPPYGM.jpg
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  #51  
Old 04-27-2017, 11:06 PM
chuck chuck is offline
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Unless Watson turns into a better McNair in his prime the Browns are going to smoke the Texans in 2020.

Mostly thanks to the Texans, who effectively gave up two firsts and a second to get a guy who in a sane world would be a second.
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  #52  
Old 04-27-2017, 11:49 PM
Arky Arky is offline
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Round 1 complete. (with NFL.com grade on the end)

1(1) Browns Garrett, Myles DE 6'4" 272 Texas A&M 7.6
2(2) Bears (From 49ers) Trubisky, Mitchell QB 6'2" 222 North Carolina 6.3
3(3) 49ers (From Bears) Thomas, Solomon DE 6'3" 273 Stanford 6.8
4(4) Jaguars Fournette, Leonard RB 6'0" 240 LSU 6.8
5(5) Titans (From Rams) Davis, Corey WR 6'3" 209 Western Michigan 6.2
6(6) Jets Adams, Jamal S 6'0" 214 LSU 6.6
7(7) Chargers Williams, Mike WR 6'4" 218 Clemson 6.2
8(8) Panthers McCaffrey, Christian RB 5'11" 202 Stanford 6.0
9(9) Bengals Ross, John WR 5'11" 188 Washington 6.1
10(10) Chiefs (From Bills) Mahomes, Patrick QB 6'2" 225 Texas Tech 5.8
11(11) Saints Lattimore, Marshon CB 6'0" 193 Ohio St. 6.5
12(12) Texans (From Browns through Eagles) Watson, Deshaun QB 6'2" 221 Clemson 5.9
13(13) Cardinals Reddick, Haason LB 6'1" 237 Temple 6.3
14(14) Eagles (From Vikings) Barnett, Derek DE 6'3" 259 Tennessee 6.1
15(15) Colts Hooker, Malik S 6'1" 206 Ohio St. 6.7
16(16) Ravens Humphrey, Marlon CB 6'0" 197 Alabama 6.1
17(17) Redskins Allen, Jonathan DE 6'3" 286 Alabama 6.8
18(18) Titans Jackson, Adoree' CB 5'10" 186 USC 5.9
19(19) Buccaneers Howard, O.J. TE 6'6" 251 Alabama 6.5
20(20) Broncos Bolles, Garett OT 6'5" 297 Utah 6.0
21(21) Lions Davis, Jarrad LB 6'1" 238 Florida 5.9
22(22) Dolphins Harris, Charles OLB 6'3" 253 Missouri 6.0
23(23) Giants Engram, Evan TE 6'3" 234 Mississippi 6.0
24(24) Raiders Conley, Gareon CB 6'0" 195 Ohio St. 6.0
25(25) Browns (From Texans) Peppers, Jabrill S 5'11" 213 Michigan 6.0
26(26) Falcons (From Seahawks) McKinley, Takkarist DE 6'2" 250 UCLA 6.2
27(27) Bills (From Chiefs) White, Tre'Davious CB 5'11" 192 LSU 6.0
28(28) Cowboys Charlton, Taco DE 6'6" 277 Michigan 6.3
29(29) Browns (From Packers) Njoku, David TE 6'4" 246 Miami 6.3
30(30) Steelers Watt, T.J. OLB 6'4" 252 Wisconsin 5.8
31(31) 49ers (From Seahawks through Falcons) Foster, Reuben LB 6'0" 229 Alabama 6.3
32(32) Saints (From Patriots) Ramczyk, Ryan OT 6'6" 310 Wisconsin 6.2
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  #53  
Old 04-27-2017, 11:50 PM
Roy P Roy P is offline
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Ramcyzk goes to the Saints. Lamp, Robinson, King, Melifonwu, McMillan, Webb, Feeney, Willis, Wormley, Cunningham, Awuzie, Rivers, Bowser, Moton, Hodges, Walker, Tankersley, Baker, Jones, and Moreau are on my radar tomorrow.
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I'm just sitting here thinking (pacing, actually) that whatever my issues with Kubiak he is apparently a goddam genius at tutoring quarterbacks.
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  #54  
Old 04-28-2017, 12:45 AM
barrett barrett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Unless Watson turns into a better McNair in his prime the Browns are going to smoke the Texans in 2020.

Mostly thanks to the Texans, who effectively gave up two firsts and a second to get a guy who in a sane world would be a second.
They gave away those picks for a guy you describe as a 2nd and the right to subtract Osweiller. I realize that the 2016 Texans payed large amounts of money to get Brock, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a great move for the 2017 Texans to get rid of him. They could have kept that 2nd and that first and floated stories about Brock's internal improvement all offseason. They could have lied about how year 2 in the offense would be great, but in the end it would have been surrendering 2017. So if they had to waste a draft class to maybe fix the QB problem instead of keeping future picks to have the QB position definitely broke, I'm glad we have no picks next year.

And the Browns now have a bunch of the same draft picks they've blown for years. I don't think that automatically makes them good in 3 years. Everyone fell into that trap when Jacksonville picked high and put a bunch of paper "talent" together. A year after you've been in the NFL, nobody cares where you were drafted (except the Colts who will give up a 1st round pick to get a 3 ypc RB who used to be drafted high). So until the Browns can put actual talent on the field I will pass on congratulating them for getting draft rights they will probably blow.

But the reverse is true that the Texans will be hurting in 3 years when they have a missing draft class from 2018. My guess is that we are going all in for JJ's remaining healthy years. If that is the case it would be a huge departure from how we've done things, and one I would applaud.
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  #55  
Old 04-28-2017, 12:54 AM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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Amazing off-season to be following the Texans and Broncos. Never did I expect the Broncos to paint themselves into a corner where they *needed* to draft a left tackle in the first round because they flat out had no other choice than to draft one. As fans screamed for this impact player or that one, the sensible ones knew all along Denver's first pick could not be anything else but a left tackle, no matter how much the Broncos tried to hide it. Left tackles don't exactly come out of the college box as plug-and-play, particularly with all the spread offenses in college, but the failure to address the issue for the first four months guaranteed today's pick.

In a very similar sense, the Texans painted themselves into a corner where they *needed* to draft a quarterback in the first two rounds. I felt Watson was the best choice of the bunch so I'm not unhappy they wound up with the National Champ QB and Heisman runner-up. When you looked at the other 5-6 top QBs in this draft, the one thing that Watson had over the rest of them is he's a proven winner. That means a lot in the fourth quarter when you have to suck it up and produce a W or just feel satisfied with some nice stats.

Dumping Osweiler and trading up for Watson means the Texans gave up a ton to make this happen and the pressure will be heavy on Watson to catch on quickly. Just like Bolles, it is a stretch to make a rookie into a top player in such a critical position but the Texans left themselves no other possible way.

I think Watson will sit half the season and be brought in for the second half if Savage is either too hurt or unproductive. As for the 17 interceptions, fear not. Scouts say he was lethargic the first half of the season, possibly hiding an injury or possibly wearing down from the short off-season but Watson turned it on the second half and cut down the turnovers. He's proven to be able to elevate his game in the clutch and that's just what Houston has needed. In this case, they left themselves no other choice.
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  #56  
Old 04-28-2017, 02:00 AM
chuck chuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrett View Post
...but in the end it would have been surrendering 2017.
I guess my problem is that the team's total incompetence means that they were going to surrender 2017 no matter what. I am very optimistic about Savage. What other choice do I have? (Especially since I'm an eternal optimist.) But if he leads the team to a Super Bowl I will eat John McCain's... I was going to say shorts but I'm not willing to go that far. I'll say I'll eat his lunch. For three days in a row.

They are not going to win a Super Bowl with a rookie Watson at quarterback. I don't know how the season will unfold (although I have an idea, more on that in a second) but I do know that the Texans aren't winning anything with a rookie quarterback.

The Texans have a brutal schedule next year, possibly the worst in the league looking at it from today. So at its sad end they will most likely find themselves with a rookie quarterback who was a college sensation but like so many others is simply not an NFL player, a poor record and what would be high draft picks but no first, no second, and no hope.

The team of course could have kept Brock and the draft pick and then cut him at the first reasonable opportunity, July or whenever. But then they probably wouldn't have had the cap space to resign an important piece like Bouye. Wait, what?

It's almost like the team is willing to waste what they have to save five million or whatever it is and not fire BOB now. They're going to fire him next year - or not renew his contract; we all know that. So they're decimating the team and making stupid draft day decisions.

I wonder, who the hell in their right mind is going to want to come in and coach this team next year with a shitstain owner, no quarterback and no draft picks until the fifth round? Someone that nobody else wants, that's who. And Gabe VanGoobersmooch is sure to be several long steps down from BOB, regardless of BOB's flaws.

And Buford, now that you mention it, congratulations on your team's draft pick! This idiot Mormon had better be a good player because with his Wonderlic of four or whatever it was he is obviously far too stupid for the exciting world of multi-level marketing. So it's either trying to keep Paxton Lynch upright, soldier of fortune for a Cliven Bundy-style band of outlaws who want exercise their Elohim-given right to graze their prize Coot ducks on federal land, join a crack archaeological team that is on the cusp of finding the lost city of Nephi, or pump gas at Uncle Hyrum's Samco in Kanab.
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  #57  
Old 04-28-2017, 02:24 AM
Keith Keith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Watson seems to be light years away from what BOB would want from a quarterback.
Light years? I think the most questionable aspect to O'Brien's prototype would be Watson's accuracy. It's not terrible, but it has not been consistent enough.

Otherwise, I think Watson probably scored well in football IQ, in spite of any interception numbers. He will need time to learn reading NFL coverages. He has a very quick release though, which will translate to the pro game nicely. I like that it seems he is a player who really just loves playing the game. Brian Cushing is like that on defense. I want those guys. To have one at QB could be amazing. Texans QBs have too often taken on the personality of its owner and front office - too corporate.

As Warren mentioned in another post, it is all about accuracy, intelligence, leadership, toughness. Seems like Watson is a home run in those last three. And having Tom Savage is a benefit... no immediate pressure on Watson to absorb this offense on Day 1. I do think Savage will have this job in 2017 until he gets hurt... which sadly is more of a when than an if scenario.
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  #58  
Old 04-28-2017, 02:55 AM
chuck chuck is offline
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Light years?
Maybe not light years. But Watson played in a one-look offense. He didn't read the defense and then stand there and scan the field. He had the place he was going to go and there he went. That's one reason for all the picks. Picks I can live with, by the way, in a lot of circumstances. His timing is nowhere near NFL ready. He throws to wide open guys. He doesn't throw anticipating a cut. His body of work is great in college but what he did there has nothing to do with the NFL.

BOB's offense is totally, totally different. The routes the receivers run are dictated by what the defense is doing. The quarterback has to read this and see this. And then make the correct throw. This is miles ahead of anything Watson ever did in college. Does that mean he absolutely cannot do it in the NFL? Of course not. But my level of confidence is low.

I didn't like any of these guys. Forgetting the fact that they should have dealt with this a long time ago, if I were in charge I would have tried to trade down from 25 Seattle-style to try to pick up OL, CB, S, ILB, freaking waterboy, you know, whoever, and then take the quarterback in the third or fourth that played (reasonably well) in the most NFL-ready offense I could find. I'd have him sit for a year behind Savage or Cutler or whoever and then see what's what.

But here we are with Watson and no early picks until 2027. I hope he's a Hall of Fame guy and that he leads the team to six Super Bowl wins and he is on every billboard you necks see as you drive around the picturesque local expressways. But I doubt any of that will come to pass. I don't know. Maybe he'll be on some billboards along 288.
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  #59  
Old 04-28-2017, 05:57 AM
Nconroe Nconroe is offline
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Fwiw, I preferred Watson of the choices for QB draft this year. And Texans went and got him..

I also like Savage, so hoping they are both capable and healthy for many happy years of Texans watching.

If it works then GM and Coach can both stick around for a long time as well. That's the hope this time of year.

Here is a positive review of Watson, fairly detailed.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndica...96512.amp.html

Last edited by Nconroe; 04-28-2017 at 06:41 AM.
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  #60  
Old 04-28-2017, 10:06 AM
barrett barrett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Maybe not light years. But Watson played in a one-look offense. He didn't read the defense and then stand there and scan the field. He had the place he was going to go and there he went. That's one reason for all the picks. Picks I can live with, by the way, in a lot of circumstances. His timing is nowhere near NFL ready. He throws to wide open guys. He doesn't throw anticipating a cut. His body of work is great in college but what he did there has nothing to do with the NFL.

BOB's offense is totally, totally different. The routes the receivers run are dictated by what the defense is doing. The quarterback has to read this and see this. And then make the correct throw. This is miles ahead of anything Watson ever did in college. Does that mean he absolutely cannot do it in the NFL? Of course not. But my level of confidence is low.

I didn't like any of these guys. Forgetting the fact that they should have dealt with this a long time ago, if I were in charge I would have tried to trade down from 25 Seattle-style to try to pick up OL, CB, S, ILB, freaking waterboy, you know, whoever, and then take the quarterback in the third or fourth that played (reasonably well) in the most NFL-ready offense I could find. I'd have him sit for a year behind Savage or Cutler or whoever and then see what's what.

But here we are with Watson and no early picks until 2027. I hope he's a Hall of Fame guy and that he leads the team to six Super Bowl wins and he is on every billboard you necks see as you drive around the picturesque local expressways. But I doubt any of that will come to pass. I don't know. Maybe he'll be on some billboards along 288.
Who doesn't do this in modern college football? Which is basically played as HS football with better athletes?

The best recruits who are the most talented guys will go to the best schools where they run gimmick HS offenses. Even Alabama put their hopes on a raw true freshman from a Houston area cellar dweller.

Gone are the days of college QBs learning to play QB in college. You will have to coach them up. Andrew Luck isn't showing up on draft boards again. This doesn't mean keeping Brock for 2017 was a reasonable solution, and your willingness to even suggest it shows just how far you will go to complain about any and all outcomes.
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