UGLY LOSS!!! Now questions to Ponder going forward.

[painekiller]

The Texans coaching staff was schooled yesterday. Now the question is will they learn from it?

Can Brian Gaine successfully build an OL that has a Colts like turn around? Heck I would be happy with just getting to the league average in sacks and QB hits.

What kind of personnel changes should happen in the secondary?

Does the Offense need a new play caller? OB seems more predictable then even Kubiak. I have lived here in Houston a long time, Jerry Glanville was famous for forcing the offense into playing smash mouth football, and then in the fourth quarter using the Run n Shoot to get back into the game. Whats wrong in going 4 or 5 wide for most of the game? Oh, we are back at needing personnel that can block and guys that can get open (or at least stay healthy enough to get on the field).

Looking forward to FA and the draft yet again.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by painekiller

The Texans coaching staff was schooled yesterday. Now the question is will they learn from it?

Can Brian Gaine successfully build an OL that has a Colts like turn around? Heck I would be happy with just getting to the league average in sacks and QB hits.

What kind of personnel changes should happen in the secondary?

Does the Offense need a new play caller? OB seems more predictable then even Kubiak. I have lived here in Houston a long time, Jerry Glanville was famous for forcing the offense into playing smash mouth football, and then in the fourth quarter using the Run n Shoot to get back into the game. Whats wrong in going 4 or 5 wide for most of the game? Oh, we are back at needing personnel that can block and guys that can get open (or at least stay healthy enough to get on the field).

Looking forward to FA and the draft yet again.

First off we ran out of WRs so it's hard to fault O'Brien for not fielding 5 WR sets. He is obviously in love with using TEs on a roster with no good ones, but by the middle of the year we didn't have 3 NFL level WRs.

Our CBs are terrible. Either the front 7 gets home or we get toasted. Joseph, Johnson, and Jackson could all be replaced by street FAs and nothing would change. Letting Bouye go is the worst non-qb move we've made.

We will never have an average number of QB hits and sacks until Watson learns to throw the ball away. Our OL is not good, but he's impossible to block for because he isn't playing QB like the rest of the league. The only QB to start all season and hold the ball as long as Watson (over 3 seconds) is Russell Wilson and he is sacked the 3rd most (62 to 51). Dak Prescott holds it far shorter and got sacked almost (56) as much as Watson. We need to block better and that won't happen until we get better players. But we'll never be under 50 sacks until Watson gets the ball out quicker. We could have the Ol from the 90s Cowboys and he'd still get sacked 50 times holding it this long. We either need to accept the sacks or change how he plays. Both are not possible.

[nunusguy]

Re the state of the team in terms of the personnel I thought except for the back-end where we had real issues at corner back but had made some improvements at the safety position with the draft of a promising rookie in Justin Reed and a solid pickup of the Badger in FA, but I was really under the impression that we were solid if not downright formidable when it came to our front seven.
But wow the Colts OLine mauled our front line guys the other day so don't now know what to think ?
So yea knew we had lots of issues on offense but now also wondering just what is the quality of the roster on the defensive side ?

[barrett]

I think the front 7 struggles in that game were way overstated by the announcers. We gave up 21 points. Our front 7 produced a tipped pass INT. We played the run well. The only big front 7 issue I saw was the way we let Luck scramble. Aside from that it was a mediocre effort without a ton of pressure, but wasn't bad by any means.

But Booger McFarland is terrible as an announcer and is constantly trying to spin the still happening action into long term narratives. Like the play he declared Clowney and embarrassment for being blocked into the endzone. Then the replay shows Clowney stalemating a double team until he gets pushed into the endzone after the TD.

The issue was our CBs not being anywhere near WRs on normal routes.

[Arky]

The biggest issue for me was OB getting out-coached so badly. The Colts came out and had a good feel for what they could do on offense. The Texans, not so much.

If you had a choice between an ex-NFL QB calling your offense or an ex-DE from Brown University calling your offense, who would you choose? Hmmmm.....

The blame goes all around, though, it's not just him. Players gotta execute and we need better players in certain positions......

It didn't help that Watson had a bad game. I'm afraid when he's not at his best, we have no chance....

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

The biggest issue for me was OB getting out-coached so badly. The Colts came out and had a good feel for what they could do on offense. The Texans, not so much.

If you had a choice between an ex-NFL QB calling your offense or an ex-DE from Brown University calling your offense, who would you choose? Hmmmm.....

The blame goes all around, though, it's not just him. Players gotta execute and we need better players in certain positions......

It didn't help that Watson had a bad game. I'm afraid when he's not at his best, we have no chance....

We got outcoached and outplayed badly. It has zero to do with what positions the HCs played and where they played them.

The top 5 offenses in the NFL this year were led by a BYU OL, a Miami of Ohio WR, a backup QB from University of Idaho, a defensive back from Purdue, and a WR from D3 John Carroll.

The idea that what and where you played football determines your coaching ability is absurd. There are 7 former HOF players who have coached and only one was good at it (Ditka), and only Munchak coached in the modern era. Most NFL football coaches these days were middling players at small colleges who were obsessive football nerds.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

We got outcoached and outplayed badly. It has zero to do with what positions the HCs played and where they played them.

I think you knew where I was going with it but barrett gonna barrett.

The top 5 offenses in the NFL this year were led by a BYU OL, a Miami of Ohio WR, a backup QB from University of Idaho, a defensive back from Purdue, and a WR from D3 John Carroll.

I see 4 offensive players and 1 defensive player. I bet the defensive player has a good OC.

The idea that what and where you played football determines your coaching ability is absurd. There are 7 former HOF players who have coached and only one was good at it (Ditka), and only Munchak coached in the modern era. Most NFL football coaches these days were middling players at small colleges who were obsessive football nerds.

The idea here is if you've been around offenses all your life that this just might be your area of expertise. OB, with his time in New England, feels this qualifies him to be an OC. I think he would be better served to farm it out to someone who is truly offensive minded - who? I dunno, but someone like a Kyle Shanahan could sure make a difference in this offense. If you think OB is doing a fine job with the offense then we don't have much more to talk about....

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Arky

I see 4 offensive players and 1 defensive player. I bet the defensive player has a good OC.

The 5 guys I referenced lead the top 5 offenses. Some are offensive HCs and some are coordinators for non-offensive guys. The one who played defense is Steelers offensive Coordinator Randy Fichtner. So no, he doesn't have a good OC to cover for him, he IS the good OC covering for Tomlin.

Originally Posted by Arky

The idea here is if you've been around offenses all your life that this just might be your area of expertise.

Do you honestly think it's the short and low level playing careers of these guys that qualifies them to run offenses? This isn't the NBA where guys quit playing and are qualified to coach based on their playing knowledge. NFL coaching requires serious professional apprenticeship, and by the time you run and NFL offense you are operating on years of coaching experience, not what position you played in college (or the NFL).

And in today's NFL the old saying "those who can, do. And those who can't, teach" rules the day. These high powered offenses are being run by X and O nerds who are obsessed with football. Whether they played is all but irrelevant. NFL coaches are evaluated on how they coach, not on how they played. So, if you want to knock O'Brien then knock him for how he coaches now, not how he played (or didn't play) 25 years ago.

You're just plain wrong here.

[bikerack]

My friend with the team tells me that BOB is ready and willing to bring in an offensive assistant but stops short of calling it an OC position.

Also, there was some thinking that RAC would call it quits, but after the game, he said "see y'all in a couple of weeks to start on next year" as they were all leaving.

Since J-Jo's salary is $4.5 million next year with $0 in dead money, he doesn't expect him to be cut. Kevin Johnson most likely gone (90% sure) and Kareem 60-70% gone. Matthieu will resign with team.

Belief is that the team will have $67-70 mil in cap space before Clowney decision. If Clowney is tagged or signed, Mercilus is a trade candidate. If Clowney leaves, Mercilus goes back to his old spot and should be happier.

Going back to the offensive asst thing...Kubiak's name has come up in watercooler discussions but the thinking is that he either stays with Denver as OC or some sort of offensive coach or goes to ATL. He has started to let people know he wants to coach again but not be a HC.

EDIT - looks like ATL is going to be hiring Dirk Koetter to be OC...

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

...................
And in today's NFL the old saying "those who can, do. And those who can't, teach" rules the day. These high powered offenses are being run by X and O nerds who are obsessed with football. Whether they played is all but irrelevant.

I disagree with that. You don't think Wes Welker can teach Coutee a thing or two about playing the slot?

NFL coaches are evaluated on how they coach, not on how they played. So, if you want to knock O'Brien then knock him for how he coaches now, not how he played (or didn't play) 25 years ago.

You're just plain wrong here.

It's hard for the narrow minded to think outside the box. If you want to think I'm wrong, that is fine. OB's "apprenticeship" at Georgia Tech and Penn State and as QB-coaching-figure-guy for Tom Brady I don't think learned him much. I don't like the fact that a guy who played defense 25 years ago and runs a pretty unimaginative offense now, fancies himself an OC. He's good at the Head Coach stuff I do believe - just not a very good OC. I think his offense sucks and I doubt anyone in the NFL will be copying it any time soon. Very few times this year, I thought, "Oh, good call, OB!". I want someone who can make me say that at least once a game..... Some people got a knack for it and some don't - I don't think OB has a knack for it (OC). And I still don't like his offensive credentials.

[barrett]

You are 100% right about Welker. Position coaching in the NFL and X and O coordinator coaching is very different. Position coaching is technique and the guys who did it best teach it best. Sometimes that's great players and sometimes that's players who didn't have talent but knew the technique perfect. X and O coaching done by coordinators (especially on the offensive side of the ball) is all about scheme.

And O'Brien is more than qualified to be an OC. If fired today he'd be an OC tomorrow if he wasn't given a HC job. He redesigned the offense on the fly last year and was more creative with Watson then any NFL HC has ever been with a mobile QB (which still amounts to below average creativity for a college coach). Then the league adjusted and we went backwards on offense this year when O'Brien/Watson didn't adjust back. We were middle of the road in total offense and top 1/3 in scoring. And that's with a serious lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball.

Here's the bottom 5 in cap spending on offense...
Cardinals $58 million
Dolphins $55 million
Bills $55 million
Texans $55 million
Broncos $51 million

Here's the same 5 teams in scoring per game.
Texans 25 ppg
Denver 21 ppg
Miami 20 ppg
Bills 17 ppg
Cardinals 14 ppg

There is a large element of you get what you pay for with our offense. We don't have talent outside of Hopkins and Watson. We're mediocre at RB, mediocre at OL, awful at TE, and bad at WR outside of Hopkins and Fuller. For O'Brien to get average performance out of bottom 5 talent is solid.

But we undeniably laid and egg in the playoffs and Watson took a step backwards under O'Brien's coaching this year. I have no problem with O'Brien being held to the fire for that. I just don't buy for one second it is connected to what he did as a college football player.

[Arky]

Originally Posted by barrett

....... I just don't buy for one second it is connected to what he did as a college football player.

It's on his resume. Kinda like when one of Hitler's generals refused to follow orders from "that corporal". (Hitler was a corporal during WWI).

[Keith]

Originally Posted by bikerack

Also, there was some thinking that RAC would call it quits, but after the game, he said "see y'all in a couple of weeks to start on next year" as they were all leaving.

I saw this sentiment among fans that it was time to send RAC out to pasture. I can't understand that. I mean, if RAC wants to retire, so be it... but if he wants another year, then of course.

Originally Posted by bikerack

Belief is that the team will have $67-70 mil in cap space before Clowney decision. If Clowney is tagged or signed, Mercilus is a trade candidate. If Clowney leaves, Mercilus goes back to his old spot and should be happier.

I don't mean to dog on Texans fans overreacting (no one here, of course), but the anti-Clowney rants are again, wrong. Yes, the neutral zone penalties are annoying, but he is so disruptive. RAC does need to figure out a way to allow both Clowney and Watt to remain aggressive and yet assign the containment elsewhere.

Originally Posted by bikerack

Kubiak's name has come up in watercooler discussions but the thinking is that he either stays with Denver as OC or some sort of offensive coach or goes to ATL.

Around Houston's watercooler? Interesting to think what Kubiak would do with a QB like Watson (bootlegs, ofc). Elway's gonna Elway on this though... seems like a non-starter.

Whoever comes in obviously needs to accentuate Watson's strengths. Going 5-wide is a terrible idea since that would better benefit a guy good at short, quick accuracy. That is not Watson. Teams with mobile QBs tend to make average RBs look great since it ought to open more lanes. The Texans running game was a mess down the stretch. Some play action stuff helped, but seems to just be the tip-off of what this offense has the potential of doing.

[chuck]

Originally Posted by Keith

RAC does need to figure out a way to allow both Clowney and Watt to remain aggressive and yet assign the containment elsewhere.

Maybe they should get a secondary.

[bikerack]

Originally Posted by Keith

Around Houston's watercooler? Interesting to think what Kubiak would do with a QB like Watson (bootlegs, ofc). Elway's gonna Elway on this though... seems like a non-starter.

Whoever comes in obviously needs to accentuate Watson's strengths. Going 5-wide is a terrible idea since that would better benefit a guy good at short, quick accuracy. That is not Watson. Teams with mobile QBs tend to make average RBs look great since it ought to open more lanes. The Texans running game was a mess down the stretch. Some play action stuff helped, but seems to just be the tip-off of what this offense has the potential of doing.

Yes - word has gotten out around the NFL that Kubiak is on the market looking for the right situation and it was more of an internal informal "what-if" kind of discussion. Like you said though...Elway is involved and he may not be going anywhere.

[HPF Bob]

Originally Posted by Arky

It's on his resume. Kinda like when one of Hitler's generals refused to follow orders from "that corporal". (Hitler was a corporal during WWI).

Wow. Didn't expect the Hitler card to come up about football coaches.

Our OL is still crummy and you can't make an offense play well with a crappy OL. They got better at opening holes for Miller but they still can't protect Watson well and so Watson holds onto the ball too long trying to make plays. He needs to have a secure pocket to pass out of and then we would see better throws and fewer hits on him.

I just got done doing a mock draft on Fanspeak and, other than QB, there were no positions off the table. I wound up taking a CB first because I'm not thrilled with the OLs on the board but I took OL in the second and third as well as a WR.

So we need better linemen or a better line coach. Until that gets fixed, we can't assess the rest of the offense properly.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by bikerack

Like you said though...Elway is involved and he may not be going anywhere.

Well well well… Kubiak is backing out of the Broncos.

[bikerack]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

I just got done doing a mock draft on Fanspeak and, other than QB, there were no positions off the table. I wound up taking a CB first because I'm not thrilled with the OLs on the board but I took OL in the second and third as well as a WR.

So we need better linemen or a better line coach. Until that gets fixed, we can't assess the rest of the offense properly.

I've done a couple as well...

In the 1st, I seem to always have to make a choice at CB between DeAndre Baker (UGA) and Byron Murphy (UW).

In the 2nd, I liked the idea of taking Bryce Love if he was there with one of the picks...but since the news of his torn ACL has come out, I just double up with OL.

Does anyone else think Clemson's Hunter Renfrow would be a good fit to play for Welker as a later round pick?

[Arky]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

Wow. Didn't expect the Hitler card to come up about football coaches.

Well, I considered the Irish-gangster card, the loser football program card and the Hitler card - the Hitler card seemed less offensive....

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by Keith

Well well well… Kubiak is backing out of the Broncos.

Speaking of Kubiak I've read where some would like the Texans to hire him as their offensive cordinator which is silly for anyone to think for a moment that a man as insecure as HC Bill O'Brien would accept a popular Houstonian & former super bowl winning HC on his staff.