Cushing out 4 games for Steroids

[Joe Joe]

This just plain sucks. He was the playmaker for the Texans defense. Here's to hoping the Texans find a way to perform like they did late last year without him.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by WMH

Side note - Shawn Merriman (sp) was in the same boat as Cush, busted during his rookie year, and he has turned out OK.

Disagree... Merriman hasn't been the same player since he got popped and the Chargers were shopping him around this offseason. Was his fall off/fall out because of the roids or because he's a jerk?? I don't know for sure, but there was definitely a drop-off in performance after the suspension. The Merriman of today is still probably better than a lot of the LBs in the league, but he's nowhere close to what he used to be.

[WMH]

Originally Posted by popanot

Disagree... Merriman hasn't been the same player since he got popped and the Chargers were shopping him around this offseason. Was his fall off/fall out because of the roids or because he's a jerk?? I don't know for sure, but there was definitely a drop-off in performance after the suspension. The Merriman of today is still probably better than a lot of the LBs in the league, but he's nowhere close to what he used to be.

No where near where he used to be, but better than most LB's in the league......ok, I'll take that.

Julius Peppers is another that got popped during his rookie year, and he turned out pretty decent too.

Color me optimistic, but I am hopeful that Cush will be that guy we used to know.

[gunn]

Originally Posted by popanot

Disagree... Merriman hasn't been the same player since he got popped and the Chargers were shopping him around this offseason. Was his fall off/fall out because of the roids or because he's a jerk?? I don't know for sure, but there was definitely a drop-off in performance after the suspension.

Or maybe it was because of knee surgury? But lets not let facts get in the way

[popanot]

Originally Posted by gunn

Or maybe it was because of knee surgury? But lets not let facts get in the way

So you know for a FACT it was ONLY because of the knee and had absolutely NOTHING to do with him getting off the roids? I'm sure the knee was a factor, but it might not be the ONLY factor. You don't know for sure. I highly doubt it was because of the knee that the Chargers wanted to ship him off. Like I said, it may be he's jerk, it may be the roids, it may be something else... My comment was we don't for sure the cause, but there was a drop-off and he's not the same player he was since he got popped for the roids. Whether it was the roids, knee or whatever, we don't know for sure. We don't know in Merriman's case and we won't know in Cushing's case either until he comes back and plays for awhile absolutely clean.

[Joshua]

According to profootballtalk.com, Cushing's failed test was in September -

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...-in-september/

[nunusguy]

So the NFL knew back then and surely informed the Texans & Cushing of the those results at that time. And he plays all year and wins the DROY & is selected to the PB in part by the players vote. I'd say its gonna be a long time before he gets that vote from the players (or fans) again.
The system is obviously screwed up - punishment should be swift, not deferred.

[kravix]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

So the NFL knew back then and surely informed the Texans & Cushing of the those results at that time. And he plays all year and wins the DROY & is selected to the PB in part by the players vote. I'd say its gonna be a long time before he gets that vote from the players (or fans) again.
The system is obviously screwed up - punishment should be swift, not deferred.

I am not 100% on this, but I believe the rules are a player is required to test regularly after the first pop for any substance and only a second positive test gets them immediate punishment.

[gunn]

Originally Posted by popanot

So you know for a FACT it was ONLY because of the knee and had absolutely NOTHING to do with him getting off the roids? I'm sure the knee was a factor, but it might not be the ONLY factor. You don't know for sure. I highly doubt it was because of the knee that the Chargers wanted to ship him off. Like I said, it may be he's jerk, it may be the roids, it may be something else... My comment was we don't for sure the cause, but there was a drop-off and he's not the same player he was since he got popped for the roids. Whether it was the roids, knee or whatever, we don't know for sure. We don't know in Merriman's case and we won't know in Cushing's case either until he comes back and plays for awhile absolutely clean.

No... The FACT is that he did get injured during the 2007 season and missed nearly all of the 2008 season. He's played a whole 2 seasons since being suspended for steriods. One coming off a major knee surgury and the other directly following the suspension which he had 12.5 sacks in 15 games. I wouldn't exactly call that a drop in production. Did you expect teams to not gameplan against him? Did you expect him to average 17 sacks in 12 games?

[TexanJedi]

I won't defend Cushing's positive test, he says (according to Adam Schefter) it was a blood thinner but if it is against the rules it's wrong. Now what that does I don't know, but he did test positive way back in September. What seems ridiculous to me is the reaction, in particular by the AP, self aggrandizing MMA wannabes who report on football on the side, and internet "journalists". They will now re-vote on the AP DROY and All-Pro for outside linebackers. This conclusion reached after one weekend of evidence gathering. Will they retroactively vote on Merriman's award? How about Peppers? I could care less about the award itself, but at least get all the facts and then fine if you think after that he was wrongly awarded then strip him and give it to the runner-up, but it makes no sense to me to have him remain a candidate and re-vote. If this guy is clean, and I hope he is, he will have one massive chip on his shoulder for the rest of his career. But hey he did 'roids, I read it on the internet.

And as a league we should celebrate rapists, witnesses to double murder who won't "snitch", players who assault women, and hit people with their cars, but if you are popped for anything at all we don't need the facts or particulars you are radioactive. At this rate LT should make the NFL's 100th anniversary team alongside OJ. Perhaps that is a bit much but this whole thing is being blown out all reasonable proportion it seems to me.

[Warren]

Originally Posted by kravix

I am not 100% on this, but I believe the rules are a player is required to test regularly after the first pop for any substance and only a second positive test gets them immediate punishment.

That's how it is for recreational drugs, which is a separate program than the one for performance enhancers. For juicers the first positive test gets four games, the second is eight, etc.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by TexanJedi

I won't defend Cushing's positive test, he says (according to Adam Schefter) it was a blood thinner but if it is against the rules it's wrong. Now what that does I don't know, but he did test positive way back in September. What seems ridiculous to me is the reaction, in particular by the AP, self aggrandizing MMA wannabes who report on football on the side, and internet "journalists". They will now re-vote on the AP DROY and All-Pro for outside linebackers. This conclusion reached after one weekend of evidence gathering. Will they retroactively vote on Merriman's award? How about Peppers? I could care less about the award itself, but at least get all the facts and then fine if you think after that he was wrongly awarded then strip him and give it to the runner-up, but it makes no sense to me to have him remain a candidate and re-vote. If this guy is clean, and I hope he is, he will have one massive chip on his shoulder for the rest of his career. But hey he did 'roids, I read it on the internet.

And as a league we should celebrate rapists, witnesses to double murder who won't "snitch", players who assault women, and hit people with their cars, but if you are popped for anything at all we don't need the facts or particulars you are radioactive. At this rate LT should make the NFL's 100th anniversary team alongside OJ. Perhaps that is a bit much but this whole thing is being blown out all reasonable proportion it seems to me.

People don't like cheaters. If Cushing cheated (like it appears) then people aren't going to like it. The number of free passes given to felons has nothing to do with it and cannot be used as an excuse for Cushing.

As for evidence gathering and waiting for the facts, he failed the test in September, prepared and gave his appeal, and was denied by the people who considered all of the evidence and his appeal.

So while I am not looking to crucify the guy, don't try to turn him into a martyr for a clear act of cheating.

[TexanJedi]

Originally Posted by barrett

People don't like cheaters. If Cushing cheated (like it appears) then people aren't going to like it. The number of free passes given to felons has nothing to do with it and cannot be used as an excuse for Cushing.

As for evidence gathering and waiting for the facts, he failed the test in September, prepared and gave his appeal, and was denied by the people who considered all of the evidence and his appeal.

So while I am not looking to crucify the guy, don't try to turn him into a martyr for a clear act of cheating.

Well I never excused Cushing and certainly did not call him a martyr. It ticks me off he took something at some point and got popped for it. I don't like cheaters either don't get me started about McGuire Bonds Sosa. Cushing's penalty is a 4 game suspension, fine. My problem is not with his suspension, though the league should consider a way to speed up the process, I admit we are not privy to the exact nature of the testing and appeals process but getting suspended a year after testing positive seems weird. What I don't like is what the AP, feeling pressured I suppose, is doing at this point. If you feel justified take the award away, after having waited a little more than a weekend to check things out, and give it to the runner up (Byrd in this case).

Again my problem is not with the league per se it's more with some of who cover it and sing the praises of many players who really are less than honorable citizens (to put it kindly) and the rush to judgment and the illogical re-vote in this case. I can't see how Cushing wins a second vote but how does it make any sense to have him remain a candidate if they think he is a cheater?

[popanot]

Originally Posted by gunn

No... The FACT is that he did get injured during the 2007 season and missed nearly all of the 2008 season. He's played a whole 2 seasons since being suspended for steriods. One coming off a major knee surgury and the other directly following the suspension which he had 12.5 sacks in 15 games. I wouldn't exactly call that a drop in production. Did you expect teams to not gameplan against him? Did you expect him to average 17 sacks in 12 games?

4 sacks in 14 games last year. Maybe I should lower my expectations a bit from the 17 sack average... I'm not sure what you don't understand about my comment that it could have been injuries, getting off the roids, Tila Tequila not giving it up, gameplanning or all of the above, but that's one lousy year for a past Pro Bowler and DROY and certainly looks like a drop off in production to me. And like I said, teams weren't exactly jumping at the opportunity to aquire a Pro Bowl LB. I think we would have at least heard some rumors of teams being interested even if SD's asking price was way too high. Anyway, if Cushing comes back and has that sort of production, what do you think people will blame? Gameplanning? I'm obviously hoping the kid is (or gets) clean and comes back as productive as he was. Time will tell.

[nunusguy]

It's my understand that Julius Peppers won the DROY award even though the voters knew he was dirty during his rookie season. OK then will Cushing get the same support for his revote this year ? I seriously doubt it, though there might be more votes for him than we'd expect ?
It was 7 or 8 years ago when Peppers received the award, and attitudes have changed substantially since then. Besides the league and probably also the media don't like the idea of Congress getting into this, which is of course a real possibility in these times.
But bottom line is I'm not optimistic about the player we get back on the field in October and thereafter. You know he'll be clean then or he's out for a whole season from what I understand, and that's just too much to risk ?
And I gotta think he wouldn't have put himself in such peril where he had so much to lose if he didn't have a really important reason to use the dope ?

[Joshua]

If it is true that he tested positive in September, I think it is reasonable to assume that he was not taking any banned substances for the remainder of the season. For one, it would be career suicide which surely he understood. Second, while I'm not positive, I think the amount of testing goes up after a positive result so I would assume the league was testing him more frequently throughout the rest of the season. If so, this is further proof that the player we all saw and loved from October through December was likely clean at that time. Doesn't excuse what he did but does give me some confidence that when a "clean" Cushing comes back in October, he won't have much drop off in production.

That's the only good news I can squeeze out of this. The September positive raises another question though. He tested positive basically his first month with the team. Everyone knew the rumors about Cushing coming out. I'm really surprised the Texans didn't take a very hands-on approach to him and his training regiment to get to know what he was doing and to make sure everything he did complied with the regs. However, it is clear that one of two things happened. Either the Texans didn't monitor his program and grill him about what he was taking or they did and Cushing lied. Neither is very comforting.

[kravix]

Evidently he popped for HCG, evidently reported by Shefter on ESPN. Commonly used at the end of steroid cycles. I’m no doctor but from what I have heard and researched, there is no real reason for him to have taken it.

As for the AP revote on DROY and All Pro. I am fine with it. Peppers, Merriman, and Williams were all voted in by the AP after popping. The difference is that the voters knew about it prior to voting and decided that the drugs weren’t enough of a factor to not vote on them. With Cush, none of the voters knew prior to the vote. As his DROY was almost unanimous, I have a feeling he will retain the DROY and All Pro, just not by the same margin.

Since he popped in September and stayed clean the rest of the season, and yes the NFL ramps up their testing on players who have popped, I have no doubt that he will come back this year and play just as hard and just as well as he did in October-December.

It is kind of sad that people are now shouting their "vindication" about taking Cush over Mathews or anyone else. In December all of these "vindicated" people were as excited as anyone else. The young man made horrible decision, I am disappointed in him but I am not going to write the guy off. I did plenty of stupid things when I was his age, the question is whether or not he learned from this.
It does suck that we are losing this key defensive piece, but on the bright side we will get to see how good our depth is. That is the difference between good teams and great teams, depth. Great teams can pull from their bench and hardly miss a beat. It does not matter if he is out for injury or suspension, we would still be going to the bench. These first four games will be an indicator of how far this team really has come under Kubiak and Smith, as well as an indicator of how good a DC Bush is.

[Joel]

called it.

and you guys pissed all over me.

[Bigtinylittle]

The most interesting thing to me is that Cushing: 1. Apparently took steroids
and 2. The NFL did not detect the steroids because they were not in his system at detectible levels WHEN HE TOOK THE TEST.

As I have written previously, I think a very healthy percentage of NFL players have taken either steroids or HGH during their pro careers. Cushing's mistake was probably being too agressive in his regimen. Which I guess is not surprising, because his whole approach to his diet, etc. is very agressive. So is his play on the field.

[edo783]

From Adam Schefter: (Last line is pretty interesting)

MORE DETAILS IN CUSHING CASE
A source familiar with the Brian Cushing case has revealed more details to ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter. A positive test occurred in early September, and Cushing tested negative for any substance twice before he was ever alerted that he had initially tested positive (both within days of the initial positive test). And after being alerted of the positive test Brian was tested randomly numerous times throughout the season and never tested positive. In addition, the test was positive for slightly elevated levels of hCG (a non-steroidal substance - hCG is a hormone produced naturally by the body). The level that he tested positive for was so low that it would not have been considered a "positive" test even a year ago.