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  #1  
Old 01-27-2017, 12:34 PM
Arky Arky is offline
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Default 2017 draft: Texans going for a QB early?

http://www.walterfootball.com/draft2017_1.php

Walter's got the Texans picking 25th and taking Pat Mahomes, Texas Tech QB. What's interesting is he's got the Giants taking Deshaun Watson just two picks earlier @ 23rd. Depending on how it shakes out, jumping a few spots ahead of the Giants shouldn't cost a whole lot if they want to go after Watson.

Watson appears to me to be just as skilled and as NFL-ready as Dak Prescott turned out to be, maybe more. I'm concerned with system fit and how well he could work with OB, but he should definitely be on the Texans radar, IMO.....
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  #2  
Old 01-28-2017, 02:33 AM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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That's actually a four-round draft and some of my observations are:

1) I don't think Watson falls as far as #23 nor do I think the Giants take him. Portraying Eli Manning as a liability doesn't ring true to me.

2) The author says no way the Texans go into next season with only Osweiler and Savage. Thus, the draft for Mahomes. So, you're telling me that taking a spread offense qb and putting him ahead of those two makes any sense? FWIW, Brandon Weeden is still around and he's not a bad fit for this offense, witness defeating Indy in 2016.

3) I wish the Texans would have Seattle's draft picking one spot behind us. In the first round, they take S/LB Jabril Peppers whom Romeo would create some fine mismatch situations to exploit. In round two, the Seabirds grab an offensive tackle and then a d-line tweener in Round 3.

4) After Mahomes, the mock Texans take TE Gerald Everett from South Alabama. If you've never heard of him. it may because South Alabama, to my knowledge, has never had a player drafted in the nFL.

An OT from Texas A&M falls to us in the third and and a DL from Notre Dame fell to us in the fourth. Might I remind people how much playing time the Texans have received from the the two high draft choices they have spent recently on Notre Dame linemen. Sure, Rick, just keep going down that well...

I noticed the comp picks are not added in and Denver is expected to get two third-rounders in part because some idiot signed one of their quarterbacks last spring for $72 million.
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  #3  
Old 01-28-2017, 09:22 AM
barrett barrett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPF Bob View Post
That's actually a four-round draft and some of my observations are:

1) I don't think Watson falls as far as #23 nor do I think the Giants take him. Portraying Eli Manning as a liability doesn't ring true to me.

2) The author says no way the Texans go into next season with only Osweiler and Savage. Thus, the draft for Mahomes. So, you're telling me that taking a spread offense qb and putting him ahead of those two makes any sense? FWIW, Brandon Weeden is still around and he's not a bad fit for this offense, witness defeating Indy in 2016.

3) I wish the Texans would have Seattle's draft picking one spot behind us. In the first round, they take S/LB Jabril Peppers whom Romeo would create some fine mismatch situations to exploit. In round two, the Seabirds grab an offensive tackle and then a d-line tweener in Round 3.

4) After Mahomes, the mock Texans take TE Gerald Everett from South Alabama. If you've never heard of him. it may because South Alabama, to my knowledge, has never had a player drafted in the nFL.

An OT from Texas A&M falls to us in the third and and a DL from Notre Dame fell to us in the fourth. Might I remind people how much playing time the Texans have received from the the two high draft choices they have spent recently on Notre Dame linemen. Sure, Rick, just keep going down that well...

I noticed the comp picks are not added in and Denver is expected to get two third-rounders in part because some idiot signed one of their quarterbacks last spring for $72 million.
I never understand your fixation on "the Texans have drafted a player from there before and it didn't work" argument. You go to that well repeatedly and it's completely irrelevant.
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  #4  
Old 01-28-2017, 06:53 PM
Roy P Roy P is offline
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I have been in Mobile all week. In order to not go too far out on a limb, I will listen to other opinions and make adjustments. I spoke to some scouts who convinced me that Nate Peterman was the best QB here this week and that while they could understand why I liked Davis Webb's arm strength, he's just not accurate enough. So, with that being said, I'm going out on that limb and taking Davis Webb in the 2nd round, assuming he lasts that long. He reminded me of Flacco with his ability to hit the deep throws and zinging slants. On one pass to the WR from Clemson, (Scott) I believe the ball caught him. Then he showed me that he had touch on a incomplete pass that Josh Reynolds should have had for a TD. I'm not a scout, but I know that I was watching the best QB here in Mobile and his helmet had Cal written on the side of it.
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I'm just sitting here thinking (pacing, actually) that whatever my issues with Kubiak he is apparently a goddam genius at tutoring quarterbacks.
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  #5  
Old 01-28-2017, 10:46 PM
nunusguy nunusguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy P View Post
I have been in Mobile all week. In order to not go too far out on a limb, I will listen to other opinions and make adjustments. I spoke to some scouts who convinced me that Nate Peterman was the best QB here this week and that while they could understand why I liked Davis Webb's arm strength, he's just not accurate enough. So, with that being said, I'm going out on that limb and taking Davis Webb in the 2nd round, assuming he lasts that long. He reminded me of Flacco with his ability to hit the deep throws and zinging slants. On one pass to the WR from Clemson, (Scott) I believe the ball caught him. Then he showed me that he had touch on a incomplete pass that Josh Reynolds should have had for a TD. I'm not a scout, but I know that I was watching the best QB here in Mobile and his helmet had Cal written on the side of it.
So you are in Mobile on your own just as a fan, not scouting or evaluating talent for somebody ? I watched the game on TV today and Webb was better than Peterman or any other QB in todays game but he certainly does have accuracy issues.
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  #6  
Old 01-28-2017, 10:54 PM
Roy P Roy P is offline
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Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
So you are in Mobile on your own just as a fan, not scouting or evaluating talent for somebody ? I watched the game on TV today and Webb was better than Peterman or any other QB in todays game but he certainly does have accuracy issues.
I'm here because I want to be I have wanted to come for years and decided to make it happen. I am a fan of Davis Webb. He threw the ball easily with a flick of the wrist. He is one of those guys who can make every throw. The definition of arm talent. He may need some seasoning behind Tom Savage, but he is legitimate.
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I'm just sitting here thinking (pacing, actually) that whatever my issues with Kubiak he is apparently a goddam genius at tutoring quarterbacks.
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  #7  
Old 01-29-2017, 04:16 AM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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All I can say, Barrett, is that if past drafting history is irrelevant, we would have Derek Carr as our quarterback now and would not have needed to chase Osweiler. Yes, I see your point that it *should* be irrelevant but other times it just history repeating itself.

I remember reading a report once from a guy who said he'd never draft a (Univ. of) Texas player because former strength coach "Mad Dog" Madden would add weight on them with no definition (much like himself). The scout predicted All-America OT Mike Williams would be a bust as a pro because he was "all fat". Buffalo took him at #4 or #5 that year based on reputation and, indeed, Williams turned out to be a bust and quickly out of the league.

The facts are we drafted Nix out of Notre Dame in the third who never played a down, Martin out of ND in the second who hasn't played a down and Fuller out of ND in the first who can't catch a pass but at least can suit up. If I were Rick Smith, I would look into Notre Dame's conditioning program before I drafted another Irish player, particularly a lineman.

Applying this to drafting Mahomes, it is easy to name record-setting QBs from Texas Tech, but name me one who turned into a solid or successful NFL quarterback.

As for this Webb kid, if he's the guy who beat the Longhorns last year, he needs to bring his WR with him (Martin??) because those two were lethal together. Webb graduated from (guess?) Texas Tech and still had a year of eligibility so he contacted Cal (which just lost Goff to the NFL) and agreed to enroll just enough to stay eligible but his true major was "NFL quarterback studies". Had he stayed at Tech, he would have been behind Mahomes but this guy felt he had NFL talent if he could just get to play. I must say, what I saw of him at Cal was impressive but then slicing and dicing the Longhorn secondary was ridiculously easy last season.
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Old 01-29-2017, 09:45 AM
barrett barrett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPF Bob View Post
All I can say, Barrett, is that if past drafting history is irrelevant, we would have Derek Carr as our quarterback now and would not have needed to chase Osweiler. Yes, I see your point that it *should* be irrelevant but other times it just history repeating itself.

I remember reading a report once from a guy who said he'd never draft a (Univ. of) Texas player because former strength coach "Mad Dog" Madden would add weight on them with no definition (much like himself). The scout predicted All-America OT Mike Williams would be a bust as a pro because he was "all fat". Buffalo took him at #4 or #5 that year based on reputation and, indeed, Williams turned out to be a bust and quickly out of the league.

The facts are we drafted Nix out of Notre Dame in the third who never played a down, Martin out of ND in the second who hasn't played a down and Fuller out of ND in the first who can't catch a pass but at least can suit up. If I were Rick Smith, I would look into Notre Dame's conditioning program before I drafted another Irish player, particularly a lineman.

Applying this to drafting Mahomes, it is easy to name record-setting QBs from Texas Tech, but name me one who turned into a solid or successful NFL quarterback.

As for this Webb kid, if he's the guy who beat the Longhorns last year, he needs to bring his WR with him (Martin??) because those two were lethal together. Webb graduated from (guess?) Texas Tech and still had a year of eligibility so he contacted Cal (which just lost Goff to the NFL) and agreed to enroll just enough to stay eligible but his true major was "NFL quarterback studies". Had he stayed at Tech, he would have been behind Mahomes but this guy felt he had NFL talent if he could just get to play. I must say, what I saw of him at Cal was impressive but then slicing and dicing the Longhorn secondary was ridiculously easy last season.
Anyone can cherry pick a random assortment of draft results and make them appear to mean something.

The year before Mike Williams, UT had 3 lineman drafted, Leonard Davis, Casey Hampton, and Shaun Rodgers. All 3 played at least a dozen years in the NFL. Not drafting UT players based on who was the strength coach in that time would have been idiotic.

The Patriots are lucky they didn't stay away from Michigan QBs in 2000 after Elvis Grbac (1993), Todd Collins (1995), Brian Griese (1998).

The Panthers were sure hurt by taking a read option guy. They should have gone with the pro style guy who was also top 10 that year, Jake Locker.

Nick Hayden and Matt Shaughnessy were Wisconsin DL who busted in the 3 years before JJ Watt. I guess the strength coach must be an issue and we should have stayed away from Watt.

Talent is talent is talent. You draft talent and put it in position to succeed. Who else went to school somewhere shouldn't be in the top 50 concerns a talent evaluator has.
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  #9  
Old 01-30-2017, 11:56 AM
Keith Keith is offline
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I'm done with inaccurate QBs. Yates, Mallett, Osweiler,... all have tools but scattershot. This offense, like just about all NFL offenses these days, benefit from the more accurate passers even if that means not taking the guy who fits the prototype. As said in Moneyball, we're not selling jeans here.

Pocket poise and decision making.

We've had this same thread for like 4 years going now. It's depressing.

This post (from 3 yrs ago!) was from a video of O'Brien even before he was the HC about what he looks for in a QB. Accuracy tops the list, yet O'Brien (and Rick Smith) haven't brought in QBs matching this profile to date.

Quote:
1. They have to be able to throw the ball accurately. They don't have to be the greatest athletes in the world.
2. They have to be able to make good decisions. You can judge that off the field.
3. They have to be intelligent, with a great football IQ.
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  #10  
Old 01-30-2017, 12:21 PM
chuck chuck is offline
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Quote:
They don't have to be the greatest athletes in the world.
We've got this part covered.
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  #11  
Old 02-05-2017, 12:52 PM
Nconroe Nconroe is offline
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Maybe I missed it, does combine and or QB rating at all star bowls include accuracy testing in various distances and scenarios?
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