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  #1  
Old 02-14-2019, 10:00 AM
bikerack bikerack is offline
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Default Nick Martin / The C Position

Just playing around with the fanspeak mocks and one of the top 3 centers (usually Erik McCoy) is usually there with one of the 2 2nd rounders.

What's the consensus about keeping Martin at C long-term or perhaps seeing what he can do at G? I don't have an opinion either way, but looking at some old scouting sheets, OG is listed as a possible 2nd position for him.
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  #2  
Old 02-14-2019, 11:15 AM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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Centers are not considered a priority position in the draft. Offensive tackles (especially left tackles) are considered the hardest position on the line to fill which is why they get taken in the first round. Centers? You have to be all-world to make the bottom of the first round.

From what I can tell, Nick Martin is not the problem up front. Last year, we drafted Rankin from Miss St. in the third and tried him all around the line. Davenport was an attempt to get a very raw LT late in the draft and coach him up and he has become what you usually get when you take a very raw talent and try to coach them up. Inconsistent.

The OL learned how to trap block for Miller but, otherwise, I wasn't impressed. When I have mocked, I typically get two OLs before getting anything else. There are several capable OTs in the draft and one or more should be available at #23. Andre Dillard of Washington St. helped his cause at the Senior Bowl and is now thought to be LT material. Greg Little of Mississippi would be another good choice. Dalton Risner of Kansas St. and Michael Deiter of Wisconsin are valued both for their talent and ability to shift line positions. They're both expected to be guards at the next level. Cody Ford of Oklahoma is another guard-tackle prospect.

Offensive linemen aren't sexy choices like quarterbacks and wide receivers but it is no coincidence that the Oilers' best years on offense correlated with the top draft picks of Mike Munchak, Bruce Matthews, Harvey Salem and Dean Steinkuhler. The rumor was that Bud Adams had linemen drafted because they were cheaper to sign but they can also provide a formidable wall that makes your skill position players better.

We've reached for other teams' cast-offs on the line for too long. It's time to draft our own studs. I'll climb off the soapbox now. Thanks for bringing up the subject.
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:01 PM
bikerack bikerack is offline
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Good stuff - but I think you may have missed the part where I was asking if we should consider a C in the 2nd round. No way I would spend #23 on a C.

Part of my question is coming from the PFF rankings where Martin was the 5th C in the division....of 4 teams. Assuming that is correct and he isn't performing like the team had hoped, would he be an upgrade over Kelemete or Fulton if he was moved to G and then someone better is drafted (or signed) at C?

My usual M.O. playing with the mocks is to take OT in the 1st and then hope there is a CB worth taking in the 2nd. Then, there is the other 2nd to play with...however, I have found that if I can take a CB like Byron Murphy or Deandre Baker at #23, one of the Wisconsin OLs or Dillard from WSU is usually there in the 2nd. I haven't paid for the premium version yet, so no trading as this point.

Of course, this is all before the combine. All of the rankings are about to be turned upside down.
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Old 02-14-2019, 05:21 PM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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Thanks for the response. I wasn't aware PFF ranked Martin so low but my big issue is pass blocking and centers are generally not asked to pass block one-on-one because they have to concentrate on the snap and make the line calls first. Once they've done that job, they look for a blocker to assist or try to pick up a blitzer.

Since my opinion of Martin is higher than PFF's, I can't really comment on moving him. You want the best five blockers you can get so if it makes more sense to move him to guard and get another center, I'm with you.

BTW, I agree with you about draft strategy. Some combination of OT, CB and OG would be ideal. I also wouldn't begrudge a trade down to reclaim our 4th round pick. (The draft-only subscription fee is not onerous for Fanspeak - at least in my mind).
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Old 02-14-2019, 07:32 PM
bikerack bikerack is offline
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Yeah, I agree - the price isn't steep. I just tend to wait to pay until the rankings firm up.
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  #6  
Old 02-15-2019, 10:07 AM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bikerack View Post
Yeah, I agree - the price isn't steep. I just tend to wait to pay until the rankings firm up.
It's a one-year subscription so it will be good the following winter. The reason I haven't posted any mocks is that the additional comp picks are speculative at this point and a lot of changes will come through free agency, the combine and private workouts. Right now, I just do it for self-amusement and to get an idea what rounds certain players will be available.
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Old 02-15-2019, 12:19 PM
bikerack bikerack is offline
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Bah - I went ahead and subscribed. You talked me into it.

On my very first run through (3 rounds only), Ed Oliver dropped all the way to me and I couldn't find a trade partner. He must've had a bong gas mask video come out...

23: R1P23 DL ED OLIVER HOUSTON
54: R2P22 CB LONNIE JOHNSON KENTUCKY
60: R2P28 G MICHAEL JORDAN OHIO STATE
86: R3P22 G MICHAEL DEITER WISCONSIN
91: R3P27 OT TREY PIPKINS SIOUX FALLS (actually hit the wrong button here - I was actually looking at the RBs...almost all were still available)

TRADES
TRADE PARTNER:
LA CHARGERS
SENT:
ROUND: 2 PICK: 23
RECEIVED:
ROUND: 2 PICK: 28
ROUND: 3 PICK: 27

Last edited by bikerack; 02-15-2019 at 12:26 PM.
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  #8  
Old 02-15-2019, 03:48 PM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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I'd be in hog heaven if Oliver fell to us (which probably meant his knee wasn't fully healed). My goodness. If you lined up Watt, Clowney, Mercilus and Oliver, we'd have one of the best pass rushes in the league. We'd also be damn easy to run on which is why we'd need some bulk up the middle to go with it.

BTW, some of the draft boards are just laughable. Some names I'm seeing in one-round online mocks show up available in the fourth round, you know this guy hasn't done his homework.

I typically get the best OT available then the best CB and interior lineman in round two. However, sometimes a name is still there that can't be passed up...
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  #9  
Old 02-20-2019, 09:46 AM
painekiller painekiller is offline
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IMO if a young man can play OC, then he can play OG. I know it's not always the case, but it seems to be very common. Hence many draft sites are now calling the OC/OG one position MOL.

Not all OG can snap the ball and reach there block, but take the snapping from most centers and the guy is now freed up to get his initial block and move unto his second block.

And like bikerack I have been running into that same issue. I have been taking the OCs, and expect the team to be true to their word and have competition.
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