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  #1  
Old 04-30-2019, 11:48 PM
painekiller painekiller is offline
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Default Thoughts on the Draft (and the b!tching)

I will start off saying I have a history of drinking the cool-aid and i don't apologize for that. Prior to the draft the radio and internet buzz was OL, especially OT, and CB were the most supported position to take in the draft. Well the team took two of each of those positions.

I know I for one, wanted Dillard, would I have traded up for him? I would've had a hard time sitting still, and not trading up for him at 18 or so. That said, I am not going to question them letting the draft come to them. Especially if they think Dillard's upside is not as high as Howard's upside. This pick reminds me of the Duane Brown pick, in that we the fan base thought they reached for a player who turned into an All Pro. The 2nd OT drafted Max Scharping, is a bear of a man. A LT on paper. But look at the man, he has RT written all over him.

Listen I want the 5 best OL guys on the field at the same time. IIRC, neither of the free agent signed OTs have more than a 1 year deal. So if the team has to put these guys at OG for right now is that a bad thing? The fan base may think so, but that was how it used to be done. A RT start his NFL career at RG, and learned the NFL game and speed. Got used to that side of the line, using a hand that he did not use in college.

Would I be mad at an OL of, Kalil-Howard-Martin-Scharping-Henderson? No, two starters in the draft is a huge thing, these guys are real road grader types. The only thing that would make me mad is them not earning there spots. Now if the they earn there spots, and start at tackle, so much the better.

Look BOB has been pretty clear that he wants to run the ball, he certainly has the beef upfront now. The Pats won the Super Bowl going to a heavy package and imposing their will on the other teams in the playoffs.

The LBs in the NFL seem to be getting smaller and quicker, so go big and wear them down. But only if you have the guys to do that.

As for the DBs, I am shocked Greedy Williams lasted as long as he did. But he made a business decision to not go on any visits, red flag time.

Seems the DB picks were for guys that can run press. One of my friends and I bitch all the time about not pressing the line. Seems it was due to skill sets. Well we are trying to load up on a new skill set. Go for it.

As for the bitching, no one outside the war room and Bikerack seem to have any info on the offers to move up and down. I like the Howard pick, and I love the Scharping pick. These are two men i can root for, and i hope they develop the way Brown developed. BTW thank you Bickrack for posting those text from your buddy, they were spot on and I appreciated them.

Lastly Next draft, we should have more picks due to comp picks, we maybe picking sooner due to the tougher schedule and renewal of a couple teams in our division.

I see CB and RB as the top priority in that draft, you never have enough CBs. As for RB, Miller maybe gone next year, and Foreman may not have the recovery we are wishing for. Even if they resign Miller and Foreman is the stud he flashed his rookie year, we could use a RB in the 2nd round.

And as I said I have been drinking the cool aid. Come on September.
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Old 05-01-2019, 11:57 AM
Joshua Joshua is offline
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I have not been drinking the kool aid and haven't for quite a while. Pretty much every pick is a project and, quite frankly, a stretch to be an average to above-average starter this year. Moreover, that development requires good coaching and mentorship by fellow players. Other than Joseph mentoring the CB, I don't see it.


As for Dillard, they got pantsed because they've let their OL get so bad that everyone knew the Texans draft plans and were able to plan accordingly. Apparently, Philly had this deal set up weeks ago. They knew the Texans would take him at 23, so they called Baltimore at 22 and put together the deal if he fell. Simply put, Texans got out-maneuvered and apparently it never occurred to them it wasn't Baltimore they had to worry about but every team below them that knew that 22 was the spot you had to move to if Dillard dropped. Philly played chess, Texans played checkers.

Turning to Howard, no idea if he will be good or not but the consensus is he was a reach. So, the question is are the Texans better at identifying offensive line talent than most? I see no reason to reach that conclusion. They've fielded arguably the worst line in football for several years both in terms of talent and development. That's why I think the Duane Brown comparison (although the most obvious one at first blush) doesn't quite work. Admittedly I'm going off memory but wasn't Kubiak and Alex Gibbs in house when Brown was selected? Both of those guys knew the zone blocking scheme backward and forward, how to coach it, and what traits to look for in players for it. I see no evidence that this staff is even in the same ballpark in that regard.

I realize this is easy for me to say, but I'm also not a huge fan of these 1 year deals we give out in free agency. I get not wanting to overspend, but this just puts us right back in the same spot next year. We saw it with the honey badger. If our 1-year free agents play well, my guess is we'll likely get outbid and have to start over. So, Kalil and Roby either suck (which is bad) or are decent and leave. And then next spring, we're once again trying to replace OL and CB for God knows how many years now.
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Old 05-01-2019, 02:20 PM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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Howard and Sharping were not "my guys" but I'll defer to the professionals who watch tape and interview these guys.

The problem with taking so many small school and "projects" is that you have no idea if they would perform at the NFL level. You get a guy from the SEC and it's like going from AA ball to the majors. You take a guy from the smaller schools and it is like going from Rookie ball to the majors. There's a huge transition and most of them won't even be close to ready as rookies but *may* be capable in year two or three.

Remember Seth Wand? The third-round tackle from some directional school that Casserly fell in love with at the Senior Bowl. He had the unrefined skills to be a left tackle but he didn't have the mental toughness to be an NFL player. That's the risk you take.

So, I can't call this a bad draft as much as I would call it a "wishful" draft.
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  #4  
Old 05-01-2019, 02:49 PM
chuck chuck is offline
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The Texans need OL that will keep Deshaun from being mauled again next year. If they cannot field an OL in 2019 that is not terrible, they have failed the offseason, miserably.
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  #5  
Old 05-01-2019, 05:01 PM
barrett barrett is offline
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If Watson threw the ball a half second quicker like most NFL QBs then the Texans OL would look much better and would give up a league average amount of sacks. The only decent QBs to hold it near as long as him are Wilson, Prescott, and Rodgers. Not coincidentally, the 5 most sacked QBs are Watson, Prescott, Wilson, Carr, and Rodgers (Somehow Carr had the quickest trigger and the 4th most sacks, a truly terrible display of blocking).

Tons of Watson's sacks come because he refused to throw the ball away in situations that would make every QB in the league throw it away. But tons of his great plays came because he refused to throw the ball away. Both of those things are on him for better and worse.

He is the best player on our team, one of the best QBs in the league, and has unlimited upside, but the OL was not primarily behind him getting sacked so much last year.
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Old 05-01-2019, 05:06 PM
barrett barrett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPF Bob View Post
Howard and Sharping were not "my guys" but I'll defer to the professionals who watch tape and interview these guys.

The problem with taking so many small school and "projects" is that you have no idea if they would perform at the NFL level. You get a guy from the SEC and it's like going from AA ball to the majors. You take a guy from the smaller schools and it is like going from Rookie ball to the majors. There's a huge transition and most of them won't even be close to ready as rookies but *may* be capable in year two or three.

Remember Seth Wand? The third-round tackle from some directional school that Casserly fell in love with at the Senior Bowl. He had the unrefined skills to be a left tackle but he didn't have the mental toughness to be an NFL player. That's the risk you take.

So, I can't call this a bad draft as much as I would call it a "wishful" draft.
Of the 10 All-Pro OL last year guess how many played in the SEC. Hint, it's the same amount as played in the SWAC.
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  #7  
Old 05-02-2019, 01:38 AM
chuck chuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrett View Post
He is the best player on our team, one of the best QBs in the league, and has unlimited upside, but the OL was not primarily behind him getting sacked so much last year.
Not only was last year's OL the worst in team history, most of the year Deshaun was working with one receiver.
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  #8  
Old 05-02-2019, 07:26 AM
barrett barrett is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
Not only was last year's OL the worst in team history, most of the year Deshaun was working with one receiver.
You're simply being absurd if you think the OL was worse than year 1 and David Carr. You forget this is a franchise that makes 'worst in team history' mean something.

And yes the receiving corp after Fuller went down was embarrassing. The RB group wasn't much better.
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Old 05-02-2019, 01:54 PM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barrett View Post
You're simply being absurd if you think the OL was worse than year 1 and David Carr. You forget this is a franchise that makes 'worst in team history' mean something.

And yes the receiving corp after Fuller went down was embarrassing. The RB group wasn't much better.
First five years Texans offensive ranking (points per game): 32nd, 28th, 21st, 26th, 28th (aka the "Carr years")

Last five Texans offensive ranking (points per game): 14th, 21st, 28th, 17th, 11th.

Draw you own conclusions.

I agree the current offensive line is terrible and upgrading it should have been the top priority of the offseason. I also agree that they are nowhere near as bad as the Carr Years.
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  #10  
Old 05-02-2019, 05:36 PM
nunusguy nunusguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPF Bob View Post
First five years Texans offensive ranking (points per game): 32nd, 28th, 21st, 26th, 28th (aka the "Carr years")

Last five Texans offensive ranking (points per game): 14th, 21st, 28th, 17th, 11th.

Draw you own conclusions.

I agree the current offensive line is terrible and upgrading it should have been the top priority of the offseason. I also agree that they are nowhere near as bad as the Carr Years.
Julian Davenport vs Seth Wand: who you got ?
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  #11  
Old 05-02-2019, 07:30 PM
chuck chuck is offline
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The OL during the Carr years featured three and sometimes four guys who would start for teams with decent lines. Last year's Texans line had no one who would even make any other team. I mean, the quality of individual players who make up the position, it's not close. The offensive numbers are better in 2018 than they were at the turn of the century largely because of the respective quarterbacks but also because the person in charge of the offense now is somewhat less of an idiot than the guy who was in charge then.
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  #12  
Old 05-02-2019, 11:24 PM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
Julian Davenport vs Seth Wand: who you got ?
Their opponent.
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Old 05-02-2019, 11:27 PM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuck View Post
The OL during the Carr years featured three and sometimes four guys who would start for teams with decent lines. Last year's Texans line had no one who would even make any other team. I mean, the quality of individual players who make up the position, it's not close. The offensive numbers are better in 2018 than they were at the turn of the century largely because of the respective quarterbacks but also because the person in charge of the offense now is somewhat less of an idiot than the guy who was in charge then.
Gosh. Steve McKinney, Chester Pitts and ????

Oh, MILFord Brown, how could I forget the MILF?

How many years of therapy did The Mitten need?

Admittedly, I was shocked the first time I saw Xavier Su'a-Fila starting for the Cowboys. I kicked my tv thinking the picture was on the blink.
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Old 05-03-2019, 12:24 AM
Keith Keith is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPF Bob View Post
How many years of therapy did The Mitten need
How am I still in therapy over Zoolander wearing those mittens to begin with?
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Old 05-03-2019, 11:50 AM
chuck chuck is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPF Bob View Post
Gosh. Steve McKinney, Chester Pitts and ????
Fred Weary, Ryan Young...

I mean, we're not going to set the world on fire here but these guys were better than street FAs and that's what the team had last year, street FAs.

It's hard to picture through the haze of time, but it wasn't all that long ago when the team had a very good OL. That was right around the time when the team had a really good secondary.
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Old 05-03-2019, 12:52 PM
Joshua Joshua is offline
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Regardless of which was worse, just having this conversation tells you all you need to know.

And while it's true that Watson did cause some of the sacks by hanging onto the ball too long, he also Houdini'ed out of what would have been sacks of virtually every other QB in the league multiple times. And there's also the fact that teams were a little more restrained in rushing him than, say, Tom Savage out of fear he would break free and run for 20 yards. I can't even imagine what the sack total would have been if a statue like Savage had been back there.

By word and deed, it's clear that practically everyone, including the Texans, thought their O line was terrible last year. Heading into the draft, everyone predicted the Texans would likely use 2 of their first 3 picks on O linemen, even if they had to reach for them, because the line was that bad. The Texans then went out and did exactly that.
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Old 05-03-2019, 01:31 PM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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Originally Posted by Joshua View Post
And while it's true that Watson did cause some of the sacks by hanging onto the ball too long, he also Houdini'ed out of what would have been sacks of virtually every other QB in the league multiple times. And there's also the fact that teams were a little more restrained in rushing him than, say, Tom Savage out of fear he would break free and run for 20 yards. I can't even imagine what the sack total would have been if a statue like Savage had been back there.
Excellent point. There were times I marveled at how Watson could stay upright.
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  #18  
Old 05-03-2019, 01:37 PM
HPF Bob HPF Bob is offline
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Quote:
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Fred Weary, Ryan Young...
Young played a total of 9 games as a Texan - all in 2002.

Weary played six seasons but sat out much of 2004 and 2005, presumably with injuries.
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Old 05-03-2019, 05:01 PM
painekiller painekiller is offline
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Quote:
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Young played a total of 9 games as a Texan - all in 2002.

Weary played six seasons but sat out much of 2004 and 2005, presumably with injuries.
Young's groin injury was a bad one. instead of the groin muscle pulling or ripping, the bone pulled loose. Young was never the same.
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Old 05-03-2019, 05:38 PM
chuck chuck is offline
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Young's groin injury was a bad one. instead of the groin muscle pulling or ripping, the bone pulled loose. Young was never the same.
He was a good player for the Jets. And that's my point. The Carr years OL had actual, NFL quality players. Or at least they tried to. In the Watson years they literally do everything they can to chase away anyone who can play at all. And then they draft these slapdicks from schools nobody other than Pickett's ever heard of. Or they draft a guy from a Pickett school in the 4th round and expect to slide him right in to LT. Etc. It is quite something to behold.
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