IntheBullseye.com  

Go Back   IntheBullseye.com > Hot Reads ...In the Bullseye > The NFL Draft

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-21-2009, 02:09 PM
TrickyTexan TrickyTexan is offline
Training Camp Fodder
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 18
Default

weatherspoon is returning to Mizzou. and is a real stud. Ray Ray should not be drafted early. His limitations were constantly indeminified by the rest of the USC defense including the other LBs.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-21-2009, 11:42 PM
Roy P Roy P is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
You're suggesting that Kollar has the juice with Smith/Kubiak to induce them
to trade-up to get his man in the first round ?
You're suggesting that we would have to trade up.

I have to admit that the idea of Williams, Raji, Okoye, and whoever is really a nice thought.

Have I mentioned that I like Cody Brown from UConn today?
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-22-2009, 12:11 AM
painekiller painekiller is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Near the Galleria
Posts: 2,852
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy P View Post
Have I mentioned that I like Cody Brown from UConn today?
Hey don't steal my guy.

What guy should we take if Oher, Raji, and Brown are all sitting there at 15?
__________________
There is no failure, only feedback.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-22-2009, 12:23 AM
sinnister sinnister is offline
Veteran Depth
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Shreveport, La
Posts: 165
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by painekiller View Post
Hey don't steal my guy.

What guy should we take if Oher, Raji, and Brown are all sitting there at 15?
Raji. He would be an incredible addition to the team
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-22-2009, 02:36 AM
mussop mussop is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: livingston
Posts: 360
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by painekiller View Post
Hey don't steal my guy.

What guy should we take if Oher, Raji, and Brown are all sitting there at 15?
Thats a tough one. It would be between Oher and Raji for me and alot would have to do with the interview. I would probably go Raji because I ahve them rated pretty even but our D needs Raji more than our O needs Oher.

Also I feel like there are some OL that will be available later in the draft that have lots of potential in our ZB scheme. I dont know if there is anyone in this draft that could help us more than Raji.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-22-2009, 09:17 AM
papabear papabear is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 838
Default

I watched a little of practice yesterday and saw the one on one O-line vs D-line drills. Oher looked really good at times, and absolutely terrible at others. I think it was a G/C from Alabama that I noticed once or twice.

There were a couple fo defensive ends that I thought looked pretty good. A kid from Richmond and one from Hawaii. Both of them were quick off the ball and seemed like the could pull off the speed rush. No, I don't remember their names...does anyone else know anything about these guys? Maybe a later round pick who can be a pass rush specialist?

It's hard to tell much from this drill though.
__________________
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-BobMcNair
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-22-2009, 10:40 AM
painekiller painekiller is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Near the Galleria
Posts: 2,852
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by papabear View Post
I watched a little of practice yesterday and saw the one on one O-line vs D-line drills. Oher looked really good at times, and absolutely terrible at others. I think it was a G/C from Alabama that I noticed once or twice. That is Caldwell the OC they are working at both positiions, like all the OCs.

There were a couple fo defensive ends that I thought looked pretty good. A kid from Richmond and one from Hawaii. Both of them were quick off the ball and seemed like the could pull off the speed rush. No, I don't remember their names...does anyone else know anything about these guys? Maybe a later round pick who can be a pass rush specialist? 92 David Veikune (DL) Hawaii
95 Lawrence Sidbury (DL) Richmond

It's hard to tell much from this drill though.

Sidbury was here in Houston last week. Both of those guys will be specialist, or 3-4 guys
__________________
There is no failure, only feedback.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-22-2009, 10:53 AM
papabear papabear is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 838
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by painekiller View Post
Sidbury was here in Houston last week. Both of those guys will be specialist, or 3-4 guys
That's them....if I wasn't so lazy I would have looked them up myself. Don't know much about them, but the little I saw they looked like they would either be 3-4 guys or specialist DE's.
__________________
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-BobMcNair
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-22-2009, 07:43 PM
nunusguy nunusguy is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,399
Default

Isn't English the guy that Mayoc at SB practice today predicted as potentially the next DeMarcus Ware ? And that was a nice plug he gave Andre Johnson the other day when discussing receivers in the WC offense ?
Dang I wish we could get the SB here in Houston, but ya gotta admire the little city of Mobile, AL for making a big success out of it.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-22-2009, 07:53 PM
nunusguy nunusguy is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy P View Post
You're suggesting that we would have to trade up.
If that's a question, my reply is "yes". More & more teams are going 3-4 and these tweeners are becoming a more valuable commodity every year.
I wish we had never left the 3-4, but it's typical of Kubiak being inflexible and reluctant to confront change.
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-22-2009, 10:20 PM
Roy P Roy P is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by painekiller View Post
Hey don't steal my guy.

What guy should we take if Oher, Raji, and Brown are all sitting there at 15?
Your guy? Cody Brown is one of my guys.

If you are talking about Raji, then I'll concede that. I have been slow in coming around on him. When it comes to 1st round picks with guaranteed money, I get very picky. "Character" issues include things like arrests, suspensions, lack of conditioning, etc. Raji had some academic problems at BC that I'm not completely familiar with, but it is a flag. He also had some issues with his weight getting up over 360lbs. I'm sold that the talent is all there, but there are some questions about the mental and emotional.

I doubt we'll be faced with your hypothetical, but if it happened, I would go Raji because of how much he would improve Okoye, Mario, and DeMeco.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-23-2009, 01:50 AM
jppaul jppaul is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 343
Default

Blah...Blah...I am done with first round tackles FOR THIS TEAM, we have other needs besides D-line. B.J. Raji pulled an Okoye and jumped up the charts but after 5 firsts in 6 years give me a 2nd or 3rd rounder before we have 82 % of our cap tied into the d-line.

BTW that goes for DEs out there too. Orakpo, Maybin, Johnson, and Everette Brown, NOT INTERESTED. Are we any better than the Lions, for the redundant drafting, they drafted three WR in as many years. We drafted 5 first round Dlinemen in 6 years. Fing Ridicolous. I AM DONE WITH THAT CRAP.
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-23-2009, 06:39 AM
nunusguy nunusguy is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jppaul View Post
Blah...Blah...I am done with first round tackles FOR THIS TEAM, we have other needs besides D-line. B.J. Raji pulled an Okoye and jumped up the charts but after 5 firsts in 6 years give me a 2nd or 3rd rounder before we have 82 % of our cap tied into the d-line.
Fair point.
Lot of guys went gah-gah eyed over Okoyes Senior Bowl performance a couple years ago (apparently including Smith & Kubiak),
and 2 years out in the NFL he's been a definite flop for a #10 overall.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 01-23-2009, 09:33 AM
papabear papabear is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 838
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
Fair point.
Lot of guys went gah-gah eyed over Okoyes Senior Bowl performance a couple years ago (apparently including Smith & Kubiak),
and 2 years out in the NFL he's been a definite flop for a #10 overall.
I think that comment is ridiculous. Played well early in his rookie season before wearing down. Understandable for any rookie, not to mention one as young as him. He was a major disappointment this year without a doubt, but he was nicked up most of the year and was asked to play a lot of 2 gap type techniques. Not his strong suit. Will he ever be in same level at his position as AJ or Mario. I doubt it, but if your expectations for a first round pick are that he ends up being one of the top 3 or 4 guys at his position your going to be disappointed an awful lot. Hell even expecting multiple pro bowls from your first round pick is probably unrealistic.
__________________
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-BobMcNair
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-23-2009, 11:09 AM
RunninRaven RunninRaven is offline
Drafted Rookie
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 58
Default

I think it is silly to use past player performance to plan drafting strategy for THIS year. Whether or not Travis Johnson or Okoye worked out has nothing to do with how good a player Everette Brown will be. How good of a player Everette Brown IS will determine how good a player Everette Brown will be. You look at that and that alone to determine his value and draft from there.

Does it suck that we have put so much money into the D-line over the years and really only had Mario to show for it? Yeah, it does, but that doesn't mean you give up on improving a weakness of the team's through the draft. I mean, this particular regime is really only responsible for Mario and Okoye anyway. Mario I think we can agree has worked out rather nicely. Okoye looks to be a disappointment but his story is far from over. If the team sees a guy at 15 that they really believe can help this team on the D-line, I sure as hell hope they don't avoid taking him just because Travis Johnson didn't work out like we'd hoped.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-23-2009, 12:31 PM
nunusguy nunusguy is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,399
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by papabear View Post
but if your expectations for a first round pick are that he ends up being one of the top 3 or 4 guys at his position your going to be disappointed an awful lot. Hell even expecting multiple pro bowls from your first round pick is probably unrealistic.
For openers he's not just a first round pick, he's a top 10 pick which by definition means he was drafted in the top third of the first round. And my criteria for success for a player drafted that high would include a level of performance within his first 2 years which indicates he's a standout, a "star" or atleast demononstrates the potential to rise to that level. And I'm not talking about flashing, about making a play or 2 in a game and then disappearing for a couple weeks. Gotta have more consistancy than that by the end of the second year. And so far I haven't seen that, maybe you have ?
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-23-2009, 12:37 PM
Roy P Roy P is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,761
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jppaul View Post
Are we any better than the Lions, for the redundant drafting, they drafted three WR in as many years.
Going back to 2002 when they drafted Joey Harrington, they could have drafted John Henderson or Albert Haynesworth.

2003 they drafted hometown boy Charles Rogers instead of Andre Johnson. It's not that they shouldn't have drafted a WR, they just got the wrong one.

2004 they drafted Roy Williams because Rogers was not the answer. Imagine if they had had gone with Haynesworth and Andre Johnson the two previous years, they could have gotten Ben Roethlisberger in this draft.

2005 was the Mike Williams draft. This guy was considered a top pick the year prior, but simply was denied the opportunity to enter the draft. In attempt to surround the QB with weapons to make him successful, the investment in Williams was probably a reach considering his lack of another year playing. They could have gone after Senior Bowl phenom DeMarcus Ware, but that would have been silly, right? The best player at that draft slot was probably Derrick Johnson, but we also passed on him, opting to trade down.

2006 the Lions decided to forget about WRs and drafted Ernie Sims. Not a bad choice considering they passed on Derrick Johnson the year before. The option of Jay Cutler was there, but if they had drafted Big Ben in 2004, that wouldn't have been necessary. What about Combine stud Broderick Bunkley or Haloti Ngata to put next to Albert Haynesworth? I'm forgetting that Shaun Rogers was on the team, so how about CB Antonio Cromartie?

2007 Calvin Johnson was considered to be the BPA in the draft. Oakland went with Russell, so the Lions would have been thought of as crazy for not selecting the surest thing simply because they had made mistakes at the position before. Personally, I thought Adrian Peterson was the BPA, so I would have gone that route.

To re-cap the Lions 1st round draft picks could have looked like this:
2002 - DT Albert Haynesworth
2003 - WR Andre Johnson
2004 - QB Ben Roethlisberger
2005 - LB Derrick Johnson
2006 - CB Antonio Cromartie
2007 - RB Adrian Peterson

Gee, I bet Matt Millen wishes he had a time machine.
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-23-2009, 01:07 PM
barrett barrett is offline
All-Pro
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 2,902
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jppaul View Post
Blah...Blah...I am done with first round tackles FOR THIS TEAM, we have other needs besides D-line. B.J. Raji pulled an Okoye and jumped up the charts but after 5 firsts in 6 years give me a 2nd or 3rd rounder before we have 82 % of our cap tied into the d-line.

BTW that goes for DEs out there too. Orakpo, Maybin, Johnson, and Everette Brown, NOT INTERESTED. Are we any better than the Lions, for the redundant drafting, they drafted three WR in as many years. We drafted 5 first round Dlinemen in 6 years. Fing Ridicolous. I AM DONE WITH THAT CRAP.
The Lions drafting WRs has nothing to do with our team or if we should take a DL. (1) We need to draft good players. (2) If it comes down to a choice between multiple good players we need to pick the one at a position of need. Neither of these items rules out DL by any means. You don't make 1st round selections based on cap money. If you get it right and pick the best player and he happens to play DL then you figure out the cap money later (cut weaver, TJ, or both).
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-23-2009, 01:30 PM
papabear papabear is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 838
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jppaul View Post
Blah...Blah...I am done with first round tackles FOR THIS TEAM, we have other needs besides D-line. B.J. Raji pulled an Okoye and jumped up the charts but after 5 firsts in 6 years give me a 2nd or 3rd rounder before we have 82 % of our cap tied into the d-line.

BTW that goes for DEs out there too. Orakpo, Maybin, Johnson, and Everette Brown, NOT INTERESTED. Are we any better than the Lions, for the redundant drafting, they drafted three WR in as many years. We drafted 5 first round Dlinemen in 6 years. Fing Ridicolous. I AM DONE WITH THAT CRAP.
Couple of things. WR is different than a defensive lineman for one main reasons. A WR will never make a bad team good. They can't do anything unless they have an offensive line that can protect the QB....and a QB to get them the ball. Same thing works on the other side of the line. We could throw out two pro bowl CB's, but if you can't get pressure on the QB or stop the run with some consistency you are still going to get picked apart at some point.

I will never have a problem picking a lineman on either side of the ball if the staff thinks they are worth it. It might not always be my favorite, and it's definitely not sexy, but the trenches are where game are won.
__________________
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-BobMcNair
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-23-2009, 02:01 PM
papabear papabear is offline
Regular Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Houston
Posts: 838
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nunusguy View Post
For openers he's not just a first round pick, he's a top 10 pick which by definition means he was drafted in the top third of the first round. And my criteria for success for a player drafted that high would include a level of performance within his first 2 years which indicates he's a standout, a "star" or atleast demononstrates the potential to rise to that level. And I'm not talking about flashing, about making a play or 2 in a game and then disappearing for a couple weeks. Gotta have more consistancy than that by the end of the second year. And so far I haven't seen that, maybe you have ?

I would hope that any first round pick for us turns out to be a star, but the reality is that doesn't happen a majority of the time for any team. Think of how many top ten picks don't ever amount to much. We could argue over how much potential Okoye's demonstrated and probably never agree (although we're prob. not that far apart). I've just gotten to the point that I'm not that worried about where a guy was picked anymore. More draft picks fail than don't in the NFL. Picking at the top of the first round only slightly increases your chances of getting a star, if at all. I haven't done it, but I'm sure in the majority of drafts you could look at the first round (or top 10) and find far more guys who were only average, or worse, than standout players. It does matter when it comes to salary cap, but getting players who can contribute from later in the draft probably has as much if not more of an impact on making sure you're not towards the top of the round and forced to pay the high salary for a guy who's play likely won't match up.

I want all of our picks to be stars, but it's not going to happen. I would hope that we hit more than miss in the first round as well, but If all you get is a guy who is just an average starter...well you are probably still well ahead of the curve. Okoye did not have a good year at all. I doubt he'll ever be a star, but I still think he can play a big role on this team. He's still very young at a position that takes a while to grow into, so he might surprise us.
__________________
"Well, at least our players kept their helmets on, so that showed some intelligence"-BobMcNair
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.