2009 needs

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by NBT

Orakpo just won the Lombardi Award. He is projected to go in the top 10, if not the top 5. Do you advocate a tradeup to get Orakpo, PK? We will most likely draft from 12 to about the number 18 spot we held last year. I know I have steadfastly lobbied against trading up in the past, but this JUST might be the exception to the rule. BUT then we wouldn't be able to draft Raji, whom I have come to covet like you do.

I would bet my house Orakpo isn't a top 5 pick. To the contrary, I would put good money that he falls to the late first or second round.

His frame is essentially maxed out, meaning he doesn't have that high ceiling potential a lot of early first rounders have. He also is relatively weak against the run. You get what you see with him, but he's not a guy that's going to put on 10 more pounds of muscle or someone who's still reaching his potential. For that reason, I think he's much more likely to fall.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

I would bet my house Orakpo isn't a top 5 pick. To the contrary, I would put good money that he falls to the late first or second round.

His frame is essentially maxed out, meaning he doesn't have that high ceiling potential a lot of early first rounders have. He also is relatively weak against the run. You get what you see with him, but he's not a guy that's going to put on 10 more pounds of muscle or someone who's still reaching his potential. For that reason, I think he's much more likely to fall.

I don't know if he's maxed out or not, but I have heard some people propose moving him to LB.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

I would bet my house Orakpo isn't a top 5 pick. To the contrary, I would put good money that he falls to the late first or second round.

His frame is essentially maxed out, meaning he doesn't have that high ceiling potential a lot of early first rounders have. He also is relatively weak against the run. You get what you see with him, but he's not a guy that's going to put on 10 more pounds of muscle or someone who's still reaching his potential. For that reason, I think he's much more likely to fall.

I don't know where he goes in the draft, but you are making this stuff up. His frame won't hurt him at all. I ask you which pass rushing DE fell after his senior season for being 260?

260 is plenty big to rush the passer in the NFL. Not to mention he is 6'4". That makes him bigger than either of the Colts great DEs Freeney and Mathis.

Orakpo may fall, I don't know enough about him to say either way, and it will depend on the combine for him like anyone else. But it won't have anything to do with being too small.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by barrett

I don't know where he goes in the draft, but you are making this stuff up. His frame won't hurt him at all. I ask you which pass rushing DE fell after his senior season for being 260?

260 is plenty big to rush the passer in the NFL. Not to mention he is 6'4". That makes him bigger than either of the Colts great DEs Freeney and Mathis.

Orakpo may fall, I don't know enough about him to say either way, and it will depend on the combine for him like anyone else. But it won't have anything to do with being too small.

Show me where I said he's too small. You're mischaracterizing my argument.

He's not a "natural" 260. He's very cut and bulked up, but his frame is maxed out. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I am saying that's something I think will make him more prone to falling than players who have a bigger perceived upside.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

Show me where I said he's too small. You're mischaracterizing my argument.

He's not a "natural" 260. He's very cut and bulked up, but his frame is maxed out. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but I am saying that's something I think will make him more prone to falling than players who have a bigger perceived upside.

How do you figure his frame is maxed out. In addition to being heavier than the other prospects he is also taller (more room to fill out). Either way it is irrelevant if you think he is maxed out because he is already more than big enough to play the position and doesn't need to grow another pound.

Again, when has a pass rushing DE of his size ever been down graded postseason because of concerns about their frame?

[nero THE zero]

Have you ever seen him? He's ridiculously muscular. Believe me, there's no more room for growth on his body.

And, again, you're mischaracterizing my argument; I never said there's concern about his frame. I said he is prone to dropping because he doesn't have the ceiling that top 5 picks tend to have. In that respect he's analogous to DeMeco; a productive college player who's very good, but doesn't have that perceived elite potential.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

Have you ever seen him? He's ridiculously muscular. Believe me, there's no more room for growth on his body.

And, again, you're mischaracterizing my argument; I never said there's concern about his frame. I said he is prone to dropping because he doesn't have the ceiling that top 5 picks tend to have. In that respect he's analogous to DeMeco; a productive college player who's very good, but doesn't have that perceived elite potential.

He and Demeco are not analagous. Demeco was small and slow (top end 40 time slow). Neither of those things can be improved. Thus the "low ceiling" argument. Orakpo is ALREADY plenty big, so nobody is going to care if he can get bigger. He doesn't need to. This would be like saying a CB is going to fall because he runs a 4.2 and they know he can't get faster.

Again, I ask for an example of a DE who got this label and fell in the postseason.

[NBT]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

I would bet my house Orakpo isn't a top 5 pick. To the contrary, I would put good money that he falls to the late first or second round.

His frame is essentially maxed out, meaning he doesn't have that high ceiling potential a lot of early first rounders have. He also is relatively weak against the run. You get what you see with him, but he's not a guy that's going to put on 10 more pounds of muscle or someone who's still reaching his potential. For that reason, I think he's much more likely to fall.

Do you want me to remember you said this after the Draft? What is your house worth?