Trade Dunta?

[barrett]

Originally Posted by jppaul

I hope that is hyperbole, because that statement, just like your stance that the Texans wouldn't draft a SLB, is a load of crap.

I never took a stance that the Texans wouldn't draft a SLB. Try to find one. Instead I took a stance that I wouldn't draft a SLB in round 1 because I don't think it's a valued position in the 4-3. Obviously (and luckily for all of us), Rick Smith currently runs the Texans while I sit and watch games on my couch. I still don't like the Cushing pick, but none of that applies to Fred Bennett.

Now do you think Bennett played well last year? Before you answer, remember that he was benched in favor of PETEY FAGGINS.

[jppaul]

Originally Posted by barrett

I never took a stance that the Texans wouldn't draft a SLB. Try to find one. Instead I took a stance that I wouldn't draft a SLB in round 1 because I don't think it's a valued position in the 4-3. Obviously (and luckily for all of us), Rick Smith currently runs the Texans while I sit and watch games on my couch. I still don't like the Cushing pick, but none of that applies to Fred Bennett.

Now do you think Bennett played well last year? Before you answer, remember that he was benched in favor of PETEY FAGGINS.

You are correct I misstated your position on SLB, but as you say it is lucky that professionals run the organization, because Bennett certainly was better than chopped liver, despite the fact that he was benched, and if you had your way he wouldn't be out there.

I think he played well at times, and not so well at times. His performance was not any worse than the rest of our CBs, and the performance of that unit, was largely a function of the lack of pressure.

Even the best CB looks like crap when a QB has all day to throw. Champ Bailey looked like crap last year too.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by jppaul

You are correct I misstated your position on SLB, but as you say it is lucky that professionals run the organization, because Bennett certainly was better than chopped liver, despite the fact that he was benched, and if you had your way he wouldn't be out there.

I think he played well at times, and not so well at times. His performance was not any worse than the rest of our CBs, and the performance of that unit, was largely a function of the lack of pressure.

Even the best CB looks like crap when a QB has all day to throw. Champ Bailey looked like crap last year too.

Again, I never said Bennett should not be here. I said we need Dunta to play this year because it will help us win games. A response was made that Bennett wasn't chopped liver and we'd be ok without Dunta.

I feel this is false and that Bennett followed up a very good rookie campaign with a terrible second season. He was so bad he was benched in favor of the oft-maligned Petey Faggins (and rightly so). At the end of the year he started to play a little better, but only after Dunta (a fellow gamecock and mentor to Bennett) returned to the field.

I remain hopeful Bennett will become what he showed the potential to be during his rookie season. But at this point I feel it would be foolish to count on Bennett as a starting NFL CB when we have other options (like DR).

As for Cushing (who is not related to this conersation at all). I would not pick a SLB in round 1, but I place great value in what Smith and Kubiak believe. And I can easily withhold my own flawed judgement until I see results on the field to show what kind of pick this was. Especially since I do not follow the draft or College football as deeply as many on this site (and certainly not anything like an NFL GM).

[jppaul]

We'll agree that I hope Bennett is better this year, but I also don't think he was as bad as you think.

[superbowlbound]

I wanted to stay out of this, but this has clearly gone on too long. If this argument is going to continue, I'm gonna weigh in too. My opinion sits pretty much squarely in the middle between jp and barrett. Are we better with dunta? sure. Is our secondary decimated without him? not by any stretch of the imagination. as JP already said, the biggest reason our secondary looked so bad (apart from reeves' patent refusal to EVER turn his head to look for the ball) was because of our pass rush, which should be markedly improved this year, by both the new scheme (which will hopefully use our dt's strengths, which are primarily in the getting up field department) and the addition of connor barwin and antonio smith. While Bennett was bad last year, he showed improvement down the stretch, and is too talented and committed an individual to go pbust on us. A good front 7 will cover a myriad of secondary issues, and I now think we have one of the better front 7's in the league.

So back on point. Would I like to have dunta as a career texan? absolutely. Is that a likely outcome to this situation? I wouldn't rule it out, but I'm thinking no. I really get the sense that dunta's not so much offended that we f-tagged him, but that we didn't just hand him namdi asomugha's contract with his name on it, despite that horrific injury. Apparently, the fact that he came back early and the texans (with the no. 3 ranked offense in the league) won games after his return cancel out the fact that he allowed a 67% completion percentage to quarterbacks who threw at him. Honestly, I was surprised when I heard mcclain's report that he was offered chris gamble money. The only logic I can fathom is that his stance is "I was drafted higher than him, therefore I deserve more money" which is flawed from the beginning. With or without dunta, we're still a better team than we were last year. And, IMO, the titans, colts, and to a lesser extent the jags, are weaker than they were last year, so I won't cry if dunta doesn't show up into the season. He really oughta know that a holdout until week 1 won't help him in his audition for other teams now that we've got a new dc.

Also, while I personally liked matthews better than cushing, if for no other reason than he ran the same 10 yard split as darius heyward-bay at the combine, slb was a far greater need than wlb. Adibi and Diles can both play, when healthy, and the addition of cato june certainly doesn't hurt that situation. our front 7 is f-ing formidable, and that's a first for our franchise. That will necessarily improve the secondary, with or without dunta.

[jcp]

I generally agree with what SBB said....honestly don't really care anymore, I loved the way Dunta played the game pre-injury and would love to see it return for years. But if he has developed some grudge against the Texans we can do without.

I get the feeling the team now figures he'll eventually sign on for the 10 mil and one of two things will happen:

1. He'll return to form and fetch a better value in trade

or

2. He'll flame out and we'll be glad we didn't invest 23 mil (or whatever he was offered)

Now if somebody goes down in camp and we get a great deal for Dunta to fill in...maybe a trade happens this summer ala champ for portis

We'll see, but i no longer feel like it would be a catastrophic loss...

[jppaul]

In order to fetch anything in a trade we are going to have to resign Daniels or Ryans, so that we can F-tag Dunta.

[Keith]

Negotiations have apparently not improved. Anyone catch this report live? Here is PFT's take:

Jason La Canfora of NFL Network (via our semi-sister site Rotoworld.com) reports that the Texans and Robinson remain far apart in contract talks.

And that's significant now because, as of July 15, the Texans and Robinson will be relegated to a one-year deal only.

The July 15 deadline applies to all franchise players. After that date, there can be no multi-year deals. ...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...ill-far-apart/

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Keith

Negotiations have apparently not improved. Anyone catch this report live? Here is PFT's take:

I hate to say it, but I am of the notion now that a trade maybe the best option. Late in trading camp when injuries have crept in.

PFT showed an option where the Texans just flat cut him.

What if Bennett & Reeves look solid in preseason and Molden and Quinn have solid camps. Do you mess with the Chemistry and shuffle the guys who have been working there rears off? I might be getting to the point where I say bye bye.

[cland]

I'll have a major problem with Dunta if he continues the holdout through training camp. I understand the OTA holdout as the team still has time to put a long-term package together, and may be swayed by your non-participation to up the ante.

After July 15th has passed, skipping training camp only serves to hurt your team and yourself for the upcoming season. The team can't sign you to any contract until the season is over, so holding out from training camp does nothing from a negotiation standpoint. This is particularly relevant when a new secondary coach has joined the staff. You're not learning the new techniques and scheme, and you're not giving the new DC a chance to see what you bring to the table as he formulates his season long plan.

Part of what Dunta brings to the table is his leadership over the entire defense, but if he's willing to trade training camp for nothing more than a few extra weeks of vacation that leadership quality takes a major hit. So listen up Dunta, accept that you didn't get your long term deal, cash your 9.5m contract, and get your butt out on the field with all of your lower paid teammates.

[cadams]

Originally Posted by painekiller

I hate to say it, but I am of the notion now that a trade maybe the best option. Late in trading camp when injuries have crept in.

PFT showed an option where the Texans just flat cut him.

What if Bennett & Reeves look solid in preseason and Molden and Quinn have solid camps. Do you mess with the Chemistry and shuffle the guys who have been working there rears off? I might be getting to the point where I say bye bye.

I still think this would be a bad move. As I have said earlier, I don't have a problem trading him if you can get good value in return and you do it at the best time for the team. Trading him at the beginning of the season doesn't do the texans any good. If they are going to do that, they should have traded him before the draft so they would have new players this season. No need to do anything until after the season now.

Dunta will be on the field this year, and should be playing his best ball. He will be playing for a contract, even if it isn't with the texans. If he does play well this year that will only help the texans' position in trading him after the season if it comes to that.

All this being said, if someone were to offer some kind of crazy deal for Dunta before the season out of desperation then that would change my stance. It would have to be big though, in my opinion, something crazy like two, first rounders AND a second or third this year.

[Bigtinylittle]

I usually would think it was a mistake to take an SLB in the first, but in this case it makes more sense than usual. Traditional first round picks: LT, QB, WR, DE, CB, and MLB are pretty well represented on the Texans. I think we probably needed a SS and a DT more than an SLB, but SS is not normally a position you go for in the first, and I guess the Texans didn't see a DT they liked. Besides, we've already spent enough first rounders on DTs. The Texans took Cushing over Mathews not because his position is more important, but because they clearly think he's the better player. Time will tell whether he is or not. If both players turn out to be equally good, then Weakside should have been our pick IMO.