10 vs. 40

[Roy P]

The Combine's most notorious event is the 40 yard dash. However, I thought I'd share some times in the 10 yard split.

WR Mike Wallace - 1.43
RB Kory Sheets - 1.44
FS Chris Clemons - 1.44
WR Mike Thomas - 1.44
WR Darrius Heward-Bey - 1.44
WR Johnny Knox - 1.47
RB Andre Brown - 1.47
RB Cedric Peerman - 1.47
WR Percy Harvin - 1.47
CB Vontae Davis - 1.47
CB Malcolm Jenkins - 1.47
LB Gerald McGrath - 1.48
S Chip Vaughn - 1.48
S C.J. Spillman - 1.49
S William Moore - 1.49
S Patrick Chung - 1.49
LB Clay Matthews - 1.49
TE Shawn Nelson - 1.50
RB Donald Brown - 1.50
LB Stephen Hodge - 1.53
QB Stephen McGee - 1.53
DE Lawrence Sidbury - 1.53
LB Aaron Curry - 1.53

While I expected WRs and CBs to get off the line in a hurry, I'm impressed by LBs, RBs, and TEs who run a sub 1.5 in the 10 yard split. I'm not trying to say that every guy on this list is going to the Pro-Bowl, but it may explain why Tom Coughlin only times guys at Indy at the 10 yard line. Also, Stephen McGee is making me think that I need to put him above JP Wilson.

[Roy P]

Just to take it one step forward. The Cone drill is also something to take a look at. The fastest Cone drill was by Malcolm Jenkins at 6.59.

I don't want to list all of the WRs and DBs, but some of the bigger guys.

S/LB William Moore - 6.84
TE John Phillips - 6.84
RB Knowshon Moreno - 6.84
LB Brian Cushing - 6.84
LB Aaron Curry - 6.84
RB Rashad Jennings - 6.86
DE Connor Barwin - 6.87
LB Clay Matthews - 6.90
RB Ian Johnson - 6.92
RB Donald Brown - 6.93
LB James Laurinitis - 6.93
TE Shawn Nelson - 6.96
RB Cedric Peerman - 6.99

I can't help but think that Clay is moving up boards in draft rooms.

[edo783]

15th for Clay may wind up being spot on for him.

[papabear]

I still have a fascination with Sidbury as an edge rusher if he can be had in the later rounds. That 10 yard split only adds to it.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Roy P

the 10 yard split.

WR Mike Thomas - 1.44
RB Andre Brown - 1.47
RB Cedric Peerman - 1.47
RB Donald Brown - 1.50

Originally Posted by Roy P

Cone drill

RB Knowshon Moreno - 6.84
RB Donald Brown - 6.93
RB Cedric Peerman - 6.99

Hate the 40, love the 10, cone, and short shuttle. No surprise then that I like Donald Brown if we can get him somewhere decent in the draft (he also had amazing vertical and shuttle #s). I seem to recall Mike Thomas having a really nice cone or shuttle # too. He has that stubby build and quickness (plus some hands) that I think could really translate. Cedric Peerman's combine was simply impressive, and he has the perfect NFL RB build, imo... compact and low to the ground. Surprised we haven't heard more about his stock climbing. Not a big Andre Brown fan though. Seems a bit slow to the hole in spite of the 10 time. Just something not natural about the way he runs, I dunno.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Keith

Hate the 40, love the 10, cone, and short shuttle.

OK, I'll post the Shuttle times. The fastest was CB Kevin Barnes of Maryland at 3.96! Not a surprise to see fast CBs and WRs, so for the sake of brevity, I'm only showing what I think is noteworthy.

RB Donald Brown - 4.10
RB Javon Ringer - 4.11
S Chip Vaughn - 4.12
LB Marcus Freeman - 4.12
S Sean Smith - 4.15
S Courtney Greene - 4.16
S Darcel McBath - 4.16
S Louis Delmas - 4.17
RB Ian Johnson - 4.18
LB Clay Matthews - 4.18
LB Connor Barwin - 4.18
RB Rashad Jennings - 4.20
LB Brian Cushing - 4.22
S Rashad Johnson - 4.23
LB Dannel Ellerbe - 4.23
LB James Laurinaits - 4.24
S William Moore - 4.26
RB Knowshon Moreno - 4.27
RB Cedric Peerman - 4.29

[Roy P]

Just messing around with numbers and came up with a little formula. Many people know about "Explosion" = 225 Bench Reps + Vertical + Broad Jump. The magic number is 70. If you have a prospect over 70, they are suppose to have "explosion" and be able to be pretty good football players. In order to get a handle on quickness or agility you can add up the 10 yard split + Cone + short shuttle. Obviously, the smaller that number, the quicker the player is. Now, in order to find the strength/speed combo I take Explosion/Agility. Anything over 5 is pretty impressive. Here's the list of guys who I have numbers on that meet the criteria.

RB Cedric Peerman 6.019607843
CB Vontae Davis 5.811228641
RB Rashad Jennings 5.761641673
S David Bruton 5.747588424
LB Aaron Curry 5.602633617
LB Scott McKillop 5.579352851
DT Ziggy Hood 5.555555556
RB Ian Johnson 5.458664547
LB Clay Matthews 5.455847255
DE Lawrence Sidbury 5.443698732
S Chip Vaughn 5.417260491
RB Andre Brown 5.36730038
OC A.Q. Shipley 5.326215022
DT Roy Miller 5.306999307
LB Cody Brown 5.29322163
RB Glen Coffee 5.233756535
DE Aaron Maybin 5.228996283
DT B.J. Raji 5.156271899
DE Will Davis 5.154074074
DT Terrence Taylor 5.095567867
LB Stephen Hodge 5.090214067
S Chris Clemons 5.086325439
RB Shonn Greene 5.026656512
S William Moore 5.023828435
LB Victor Butler 5.020408163
OC Eric Wood 5

[jppaul]

I have been interested in Peerman for a while

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Roy P

DT Ziggy Hood 5.555555556

Another stat to back my Ziggy over Jerry movement. If the team is willing to grab a DT who is similar in size and skill set then I want Ziggy Hood, he is a high motor guy with a spin move that looks like it might work in NFL.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by Roy P

I thought I'd share some times in the 10 yard split.


RB Andre Brown - 1.47
CB Vontae Davis - 1.47
CB Malcolm Jenkins - 1.47
LB Gerald McGrath - 1.48
S Chip Vaughn - 1.48
S C.J. Spillman - 1.49
S William Moore - 1.49
S Patrick Chung - 1.49
LB Clay Matthews - 1.49
DE Lawrence Sidbury - 1.53
LB Aaron Curry - 1.53

It looks like I'm not the only guy talking about the 10 yard splits....

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns


There's also discussion about armlength for OTs.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_yl...yhoo&type=lgns


“Great” arm length (35-plus inches)
D’Brickashaw Ferguson, Jets: 35½ inches (2006)
Ryan Clady, Broncos: 36 inches (2008)


“Good” arm length (34-34 7/8 inches)
Jammal Brown, Saints: 34¼ inches (2005)
Jeff Otah, Panthers: 34 5/8 inches (2008)


“Average” arm length (33-33 7/8 inches)
Michael Roos, Titans: 33 5/8 inches (2005)
Levi Brown, Cardinals: 33 1/8 inches (2007)


“Below average” arm length (32-32 7/8 inches)
Robert Gallery, Raiders: 32¼ inches (2004)
Chris Williams, Bears: 32¾ inches (2008)

Andre Smith, Alabama (6-4, 332), arm length: 35 5/8 inches
William Beatty, Connecticut (6-6, 307), arm length: 34¾ inches
Eugene Monroe, Virginia (6-5, 309), arm length: 34 inches
Jason Smith, Baylor (6-5, 309), arm length: 33¾ inches
Michael Oher, Mississippi (6-5, 309), arm length: 33½ inches
Eben Britton, Arizona (6-6, 309), arm length: 32½ inches

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by edo783

15th for Clay may wind up being spot on for him.

I'm starting to get nervous about this. Remember Dom Capers moved up for Jason Babin. Looking at who is drafting at #9-#13, we may be lucky if Matthews is still on the board.

9. Green Bay
10. San Francisco
11. Buffalo
12. Denver
13. Washington

Then, New Orleans picks at #14, and they'll probably steal Vontae Davis away from me.

At this rate, Ziggy Hood may just be our 1st round pick.

Speaking of Ziggy, take a look.

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80f33559

[James]

If someone moves up for Matthews then someone else probably better drops to us . . .

[popanot]

If we're going DL, I'm warming up to Robert Ayers. I think he'd make a great bookend to Mario. I'd go for someone like Will Johnson in the later rounds if we want DT. I don't think I can take another year of drafting DT with our #1.

[Keith]

Originally Posted by Roy P

Just messing around with numbers and came up with a little formula. Many people know about "Explosion" = 225 Bench Reps + Vertical + Broad Jump. The magic number is 70. If you have a prospect over 70, they are suppose to have "explosion" and be able to be pretty good football players. In order to get a handle on quickness or agility you can add up the 10 yard split + Cone + short shuttle. Obviously, the smaller that number, the quicker the player is. Now, in order to find the strength/speed combo I take Explosion/Agility. Anything over 5 is pretty impressive. Here's the list of guys who I have numbers on that meet the criteria.

RB Shonn Greene 5.026656512

Greene improved upon some explosion stats during his pro day workout.

Combine -
5104 ht, 227 lb, 4.63 40, 19 225, 37.0" vert, 10'1" broad

Pro Day - 227 lb, 4.50 40, 23 225, 39" vert, 10'6" broad

That raises this figure to around a 5.5 or so.

Greene is exactly the sort of back the Texans should be thinking about with one of their mid-round picks, maybe the third round. Paired with Slaton, whatever new back the team adds doesn't need to be a third down specialist and receiver - - Slaton can do that. They need a bigger bruiser capable of running inside like Greene.

Check these highlights of Greene, especially bouncing around inside and lowering his shoulder. He's not going to be confused with someone nimble or fancy, but man, a between-the-tackles tough guy is just what the Texans need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrWZwH9VVJU

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by Keith

Greene improved upon some explosion stats during his pro day workout.

Combine -
5104 ht, 227 lb, 4.63 40, 19 225, 37.0" vert, 10'1" broad

Pro Day - 227 lb, 4.50 40, 23 225, 39" vert, 10'6" broad

That raises this figure to around a 5.5 or so.

Greene is exactly the sort of back the Texans should be thinking about with one of their mid-round picks, maybe the third round. Paired with Slaton, whatever new back the team adds doesn't need to be a third down specialist and receiver - - Slaton can do that. They need a bigger bruiser capable of running inside like Greene.

Check these highlights of Greene, especially bouncing around inside and lowering his shoulder. He's not going to be confused with someone nimble or fancy, but man, a between-the-tackles tough guy is just what the Texans need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrWZwH9VVJU

I totally agree. He's very impressive and is exactly what we need. My one concern would be if he has the speed to be effective on the zone-stretch. We need our backs to be able to threaten the edge in order to create the misdirection and also the space for the cutbacks. My impression is that he does have that neccessary speed, but if he slides into the third round then clearly it is because teams have concerns about his speed.

[jppaul]

My concern about Shonn Greene is that someone is going to grab him in the second round, I don't think he is going to be around in the third, and I think we should go elsewhere with our second rounder.

[Keith]

I agree we should look elsewhere with our second rounder, but I'd be surprised if another team selected Greene in the second.

He's not a 'three-down' back in that he is not a threat in the passing game, and he ran slow enough at the combine that I think he's far enough behind the first big group of backs. There's no premium on this sort of back in the draft, plus if you combine that with him being a bit of a one-year wonder who will be 24 by the time the season starts, I think he'll last to the third.

At least I hope so, assuming the Texans agree with me.

[Blitzwood]

We'd be lucky to get Greene or Jennings.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

My impression is that he does have that neccessary speed, but if he slides into the third round then clearly it is because teams have concerns about his speed.

Not looking at "long speed" but only the 10, Cone, and Shuttle. These are from the Combine, not Pro-Days.

RB Donald Brown Connecticut 12.53
RB Ian Johnson Boise State 12.58
RB Rashad Jennings Liberty 12.67
RB Knowshon Moreno Georgia 12.69
RB Cedric Peerman Virginia 12.75
RB Kory Sheets Purdue 13.01
RB Shonn Greene Iowa 13.13
RB Andre Brown NC State 13.15
RB Glen Coffee Alabama 13.39

I'm not sure if Jennings is a pile pusher, but he has some quick feet.