How good is our offense, really?

Joshua · #1 12-07-2008, 01:36 PM

While the Texans' offense has racked up some impressive numbers this year, something about it has still troubled me (ignoring the obvious-turnovers) and I think I've finally put my finger on it. Despite the gaudy numbers, we are not that good at executing when the other team has a pretty good idea of what's coming.

I already knew this was the case in short yardage situations. However, this was really driven home for me when it was noted in the Green Bay game that the Texans were 0 for 29 in 3rd and 9 or longer situations. Also, I think we are all aware of our mediocre play in the red zone.

Good running teams can still run the ball even when the D knows it's coming. Good passing teams can still make plays in the passing game even when the D knows its coming. Our short yardage and 3rd and long stats suggest that we're not good at either when the other team knows it's coming. If the other team can either tee off on the run or the pass without worrying about being fooled, we are consistently losing those battles. Thus, despite the big offensive numbers, we rarely just line up and beat the other team.

While I'm probably a little more pessimistic than necessary (and I do realize that the D is still the greater concern), I'm not sure our offense is quite as good as the numbers suggest.

NBT · #2 12-07-2008, 03:29 PM

If you mean the run game is not setting up the pass offense, you are probably right. It seems that Schaub, or Rosenfells, don't really get enough time to make their progressive reads before the D is on them. I think the RG and OC are not strong enough to withstand that initial rush. Today in the GB game, I saw the right side of the line break down too soon on several occasions.

Nconroe · #3 12-07-2008, 03:43 PM

I agree with our OL , especially in the middle, seems to get pushed backwards too often, especially by the good Dlines, which then rushes the QB or gives RB nowhere to go. Hope its due to being young , or maturing as a unit, but overall the results are getting better than were before. Overall, our offense has quite a few good skill players on it.

sinnister · #4 12-07-2008, 03:52 PM

Our OL has come a long way, but I would agree that we need to be stronger in the middle. We have collected some good skill players though. That is exciting.

Mike · #5 12-07-2008, 04:00 PM

I think our O-Line has improved alot from game #1. I think the Gibbs cut zone scheme is taking hold. Briesel for an undrafted guy gets better each week, and he really seems to be making blocks on the second level. I think the majority of big runs are behind him and Winston.

painekiller · #6 12-07-2008, 04:48 PM

One of the biggest problems of going to an Alex Gibb OL is that smaller quicker guys who are good with his run game are too small for the pass game and straight ahead run game.

that is the trade off you get.

BTW Denver has stated they are not going to be running this same system next year I believe.

NBT · #7 12-07-2008, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike

I think our O-Line has improved alot from game #1. I think the Gibbs cut zone scheme is taking hold. Briesel for an undrafted guy gets better each week, and he really seems to be making blocks on the second level. I think the majority of big runs are behind him and Winston.

Briziel was one of the specific ones I was referring to. On one play in the GB game, Braziel starts to get into the passblocking stance, but the defensive tackle gave him such a two hand jolt it knocked him partway back into Schaub. If you are an Olineman you have to be strong enough on top to absorb blows like that and maintain balance.

gunn · #8 12-07-2008, 08:38 PM

Its about being physical up front on both offense and defense. Thats my issue with this team and the way they appear to be constructing it... they're not big or physical on the offensive line nor are they at any level of the defense.

The two most physical players on this team are Andre Johnson and Mario Williams and to me, their physical nature has a noteworthy impact in each game.

If you lack the ability to dominate up front your team is going to struggle scoring and preventing touchdowns in the redzone and just controlling the tempo of the games in general.

NBT · #9 12-08-2008, 01:27 PM

The Texans were 549 yds good in 3 degree weather yesterday. If they could only stop the sensless turnovers, they would be contending for the division (or at least would have).

edo783 · #10 12-08-2008, 01:34 PM

Turnovers have at a minimum cost us two wins. Win those two and we are seriously in the hunt. Now we need a ten miracles type of finish to the season to have any chance (not gona happen). The offense seems to be pretty darn good and even outstanding at times, but the turnovers kill us every time. Add that to a defense that has had problems holding folks to less than 30 points and it is a recipe for a bad season.

barrett · #11 12-08-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBT

The Texans were 549 yds good in 3 degree weather yesterday. If they could only stop the sensless turnovers, they would be contending for the division (or at least would have).

Agreed. It was the most yards given up by GB at home since the 1980s. Our offense is plenty good if it does not give the ball away.

coloradodude · #12 12-08-2008, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NBT

The Texans were 549 yds good in 3 degree weather yesterday. If they could only stop the sensless turnovers, they would be contending for the division (or at least would have).

I agree with this entirely. I'm so shocked at how well they did in total yardage that I refuse to offer any critcism until the season is over. I wonder how if Jacoby has the special teams coaches eye?

See, no criticism. Loving concern.

NBT · #13 12-09-2008, 10:58 AM

Jacoby is just.......well, Jacoby. He has two punts returned for TDs, then he up and pulls a high school Harry stunt like letting the ball play him, and having to jump for it to make up for not following it properly. He ends up flubbing it, and incurring the wrath of Kubiak.

Joshua · #14 12-09-2008, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrett

Agreed. It was the most yards given up by GB at home since the 1980s. Our offense is plenty good if it does not give the ball away.

I agree that on Sunday our offense was good enough if you take away the turnovers. My only point was that before Sunday, we struggled mightily in both short yardage (only my opinion, no stats to back it up) and long yardage (0 for 29 on 3rd and 9 or longer) situations.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that I found it odd that we were a top 5 offense, but both our short yardage and long yardage success is not only not top 5, but arguably one of the worst in the league. While I haven't looked it up, I doubt any other team in the league had failed to convert a single 3rd and long through week 14. I also doubt few teams have struggled as much as the Texans in short yardage situations (I'm thinking of the several 3rd and 1s, 4th and 1s, and goalline stances where we have gotten stoned). I mean, I think we're well below average in both of these categories, which is peculiar for an offense that has put up the numbers we have.

papabear · #15 12-09-2008, 12:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua

I agree that on Sunday our offense was good enough if you take away the turnovers. My only point was that before Sunday, we struggled mightily in both short yardage (only my opinion, no stats to back it up) and long yardage (0 for 29 on 3rd and 9 or longer) situations.

I guess the point I was trying to make was that I found it odd that we were a top 5 offense, but both our short yardage and long yardage success is not only not top 5, but arguably one of the worst in the league. While I haven't looked it up, I doubt any other team in the league had failed to convert a single 3rd and long through week 14. I also doubt few teams have struggled as much as the Texans in short yardage situations (I'm thinking of the several 3rd and 1s, 4th and 1s, and goalline stances where we have gotten stoned). I mean, I think we're well below average in both of these categories, which is peculiar for an offense that has put up the numbers we have.

short yardage has been an issue at times...I think getting stopped on three straight carries from the 1 recently magnified it....although I didn't like the play calling there. Green got most of those carries, and I'm surprised that we haven't seen Sapp in a short yardage situation since Green did his trick. I don't think we've been that bad overall in short yardage....we've just struggled at key times making it seem worse over all.

3rd and long numbers are bad, but the fact is the league average isn't that great in 3rd and long. 0'fer isn't going to get it done, but it's probably not as bad as it sounds. Definitely needs improvement.

papabear · #16 12-09-2008, 01:10 PM

One thing I have noticed over the last few weeks is that our bootlegs/roll outs never seem to catch anybody off guard. With Schaub (or choppa) at QB we're not exactly looking for the run, but it seem a defender to the roll out side is right there with the QB every time. Now if a team is playing sound defense then there should be someone there to protect against a roll out, but you would expect to catch them off guard occasionally.

I haven't gone back and tracked all of our plays, but I am beginning to wonder if Kubiak/baby shan have fallen a little to in love with the bootleg. There are definite advantages to it, but you are also cutting the field basically in half. If the others team is ready for it you have really limited your options. I wonder if teams have picked up on a down and distance situation tendency in our play calling. Nothing more than a guess, but I think we might be getting into too much of a good thing territory.

We are, despite what Kubiak might want/try to do, a team that sets up the run with the pass. The running game has been great with Slaton toting the ball. You could make a case though, that all the play action and bootlegs are working in reverse to hold the linebackers in coverage a half a step longer before filling against the run. I just worry that we're a little to predictable right now.

cadams · #17 12-09-2008, 01:58 PM

as for the short yardage situations, i think this is the one place kubiak has not been good on offense. they always (95% of the time) go to tight formations and try to push opposing defenses off the line of scrimage in those situations. now, if you have a big strong OL then that is fine, but since the texans' running game is based on using smaller, quicker linemen and one-cut backs, it seems to me that going 4 wide and spreading the defenders out across the field (instead of bunching them up together) to create some open spaces and running between your guard and tackle as opposed to behind the center, might be more productive given the players they have

coloradodude · #18 12-09-2008, 02:26 PM

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/6154369.html

After their 549-yard performance in the 24-21 victory at Green Bay, the Texans improved their average yards per game to 381.5, ranking third in the NFL.

“We’re moving the ball very well,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “To have almost 550 yards in a game, well, I don’t think I’ve ever been a part of one like that. And to do it on the road in that (3 degree) temperature was really special.

“In this league, it boils down to scoring. It doesn’t matter if you have 280 yards. If you can find 30 points, then you have a chance to win. We had tremendous ball movement, but yet we only found 24 (points). It was enough, but we should have put a few more points on the board.”
Better than advertised

The Texans drafted running back Steve Slaton in the third round primarily to come off the bench in passing situations. After rushing for 120 yards against Green Bay, Slaton has 1,024, a 5-yard average per carry and eight touchdowns.

“We knew we were getting a good player,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “We knew we were getting a smart player.

“We expected him to be a third-down player right away, and then because of injuries (to Ahman Green and Chris Taylor), we went with him, and he surprised everybody.”

Keith · #19 12-09-2008, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papabear

You could make a case though, that all the play action and bootlegs are working in reverse to hold the linebackers in coverage a half a step longer before filling against the run. I just worry that we're a little to predictable right now.

Well, that is the case. The boots help keep the defense from reading too much into our zone blocks. The two go hand-in-hand in order for the offense to work.

I agree that it seems like we've seen the boot more and more lately, but then again, we've seen the run game work more and more lately, too. As for being predictable, 549 yards of offense in single digit weather suggests 'who cares?' so long as we see that kind of Top-5 level of production.

Schaub is getting better at recognizing when (and where) to unload the football when a DE or OLB snuffs out his boot. It reminds me of those WCO QBs that could figure out the Oilers' 46 blitzes and negate the rush anyway.

As long as Schaub knows his options when the ball is snapped - and he's clearly getting more comfortable in the offense - then the predictability is a little less of a concern when guys like AJ and Owen create matchup problems for their defenders.

barrett · #20 12-09-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papabear

One thing I have noticed over the last few weeks is that our bootlegs/roll outs never seem to catch anybody off guard. With Schaub (or choppa) at QB we're not exactly looking for the run, but it seem a defender to the roll out side is right there with the QB every time. Now if a team is playing sound defense then there should be someone there to protect against a roll out, but you would expect to catch them off guard occasionally.

I haven't gone back and tracked all of our plays, but I am beginning to wonder if Kubiak/baby shan have fallen a little to in love with the bootleg. There are definite advantages to it, but you are also cutting the field basically in half. If the others team is ready for it you have really limited your options. I wonder if teams have picked up on a down and distance situation tendency in our play calling. Nothing more than a guess, but I think we might be getting into too much of a good thing territory.

We are, despite what Kubiak might want/try to do, a team that sets up the run with the pass. The running game has been great with Slaton toting the ball. You could make a case though, that all the play action and bootlegs are working in reverse to hold the linebackers in coverage a half a step longer before filling against the run. I just worry that we're a little to predictable right now.

Guys are staying home because we throw the ball well. So they are told all week to stay home on the bootleg. So now with that guy staying home, we play +1 on the front side of every stretch play and the cutback is always open because the guy is sticking with the QB. Thus Slaton is over 100 yards each of the last three.

This is the idea of good offense. They cannot play the run and the pass at the same time, so be able to do both. We have, especially the 2nd half of the season. This offense is a beautiful thing when run correctly. Now if we can eliminate the turnovers we've got something.