[Speculation] Sage to the Jets?

[WMH]

Interesting read. The skinny of the article is: the Jets are screwed at QB, this is a weak QB class, the Jets want a vet, the Jets are in cap hell, and Sage is entering the last year of his contract.
It is also interesting how he points out that Rosencopter didn't do the Texans any favors with his play last year, and has hurt his trade value. But as fans, I am sure we already knew that........

Knowing that Schaub has been out some for two straight seasons, would you consider this?

Here's the link:

http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Housto...ge-to-the-Jets

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by WMH

Interesting read. The skinny of the article is: the Jets are screwed at QB, this is a weak QB class, the Jets want a vet, the Jets are in cap hell, and Sage is entering the last year of his contract.
It is also interesting how he points out that Rosencopter didn't do the Texans any favors with his play last year, and has hurt his trade value. But as fans, I am sure we already knew that........

Knowing that Schaub has been out some for two straight seasons, would you consider this?

Here's the link:

http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Housto...ge-to-the-Jets

5th rounder or better and I have to consider this.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by painekiller

5th rounder or better and I have to consider this.

We'd have to replace him... and, considering that we have thoughts of playoffs this season, we can't replace him with someone who's not ready. I don't see how we can trade Sage and get another backup and be better for it. If someone else is available like that, why wouldn't NYJets just go get him? And, because of Sage's knowledge and experience with our team, he has more value here than anywhere else, IMO.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

We'd have to replace him... and, considering that we have thoughts of playoffs this season, we can't replace him with someone who's not ready. I don't see how we can trade Sage and get another backup and be better for it. If someone else is available like that, why wouldn't NYJets just go get him? And, because of Sage's knowledge and experience with our team, he has more value here than anywhere else, IMO.

What makes you confident that Sage could lead us to the playoffs? He's a turnover machine.

Further, if a team can't move its back-up QB for a draft pick then it's not in the position to be talking playoffs.

Fact is, Sage only has one year left on his contract, so if you can get a draft pick for him, you take a draft pick for him. You could replace him with Nall or a veteran like Losman or Boller. But, it's just not economical to hang onto a back-up just in case your starter gets hurt.

[Nconroe]

I guess both and many other QB's were turnover machines against Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Minnesota, Titans this past year.

Just to show how stats can be used, both Sage and Schaub had 10 interceptions, Schaub had 23 sacks and several of those had fumbles, team lost 12 of 28 fumbles. Rosenfelds only had nine sacks which included fumbles.

So, looks like Schaub had more than double losses than Rosenfelds over all, of course he played more, but also against some lesser opponenets. Then Sage rushes for 3.4 yds/att and Schaub for 2.2 per attempt.

And for passing , Rosenfels gets 8.2 per attempt compared to 8.0 per attempt for Schaub. Seems to me Rosenfels is nearly a starter, not really a backup. Perhaps the Rosencopter incident taught him a little on ball control. As some have pointed out, offensive line and recivers effect turnovers as well.

Then there is injuries, how many times has Rosenfels missed a game due to injury, likely many less than Schaub which ought to be worth some skill or luck or smarts or odds points somehow.

So, right now, I'd vote to keep Sage unless it is like a second round pick. And its offseason so gotta discuss something.

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

What makes you confident that Sage could lead us to the playoffs? He's a turnover machine.

Further, if a team can't move its back-up QB for a draft pick then it's not in the position to be talking playoffs.

Fact is, Sage only has one year left on his contract, so if you can get a draft pick for him, you take a draft pick for him. You could replace him with Nall or a veteran like Losman or Boller. But, it's just not economical to hang onto a back-up just in case your starter gets hurt.

You'd want Criag Nall starting 3-7 games for this team next year? Not me! And, Sage next year is better for this team than Bollers or Losman next year- both of whom will cost more than Sage.

By the way, I'm not suggesting that we are a playoff team with Sage playing in 16 games. I would suggest that this team could play well with Sage having to play four or five games. That's kind of the point. You say it's not economical to pay for a backup? Look at what NE has done... They're going to pay over $14 million to hold on to Cassel because they're afraid Brady won't be ready by week one. Now that's an expensive insurance policy by the best NFL franchise.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

Fact is, Sage only has one year left on his contract, so if you can get a draft pick for him, you take a draft pick for him.

I'd trade Sage and turn around and draft John Parker Wilson to be the backup. Sage isn't going to be here forever, so let's get on with it. If Schaub goes down, we're done anyway.

Sage has one year left on this roster. He thinks he is a starter and could probably do that in the right situation. It's just not going to be in Houston. So, next year we will not have a backup and will be on the market looking for one if we just let Sage walk. Why not already have a guy in place getting groomed for that now?

The choice comes down to which is more important: insurance for Schaub this year or insurance for Schaub for the next 4 years?

[dalemurphy]

Originally Posted by Roy P

I'd trade Sage and turn around and draft John Parker Wilson to be the backup. Sage isn't going to be here forever, so let's get on with it. If Schaub goes down, we're done anyway.

Sage has one year left on this roster. He thinks he is a starter and could probably do that in the right situation. It's just not going to be in Houston. So, next year we will not have a backup and will be on the market looking for one if we just let Sage walk. Why not already have a guy in place getting groomed for that now?

The choice comes down to which is more important: insurance for Schaub this year or insurance for Schaub for the next 4 years?

I don't think it's an "either/or". I wouldn't mind using a middle round pick on a QB and letting him sit this year. I just don't think we need to trade Sage in order to do it.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nero THE zero

What makes you confident that Sage could lead us to the playoffs? He's a turnover machine.

Further, if a team can't move its back-up QB for a draft pick then it's not in the position to be talking playoffs.

Fact is, Sage only has one year left on his contract, so if you can get a draft pick for him, you take a draft pick for him. You could replace him with Nall or a veteran like Losman or Boller. But, it's just not economical to hang onto a back-up just in case your starter gets hurt.

It's plenty economical if he's not getting paid much.

If we got offered the 3rd rounder we turned down last year, I'd do it since he is in the last year of his contract. I doubt it happens, but that is what it would take for me to agree to getting worse next year.

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by dalemurphy

You'd want Criag Nall starting 3-7 games for this team next year? Not me! And, Sage next year is better for this team than Bollers or Losman next year- both of whom will cost more than Sage.

By the way, I'm not suggesting that we are a playoff team with Sage playing in 16 games. I would suggest that this team could play well with Sage having to play four or five games. That's kind of the point. You say it's not economical to pay for a backup? Look at what NE has done... They're going to pay over $14 million to hold on to Cassel because they're afraid Brady won't be ready by week one. Now that's an expensive insurance policy by the best NFL franchise.

1. No I don't want Craig Nall starting 3-7 games. Do you want Sage starting 3-7 games for this team next year?

2. I said it's not economical to hang on to Sage when (a) he will not be with the team after the 2009 season regardless, and (b) we could get a draft pick in return for him. NE's situation only reinforces that; they are in position to trade Cassel for a very high draft pick. We won't get a 1st for Sage, but we need to get something while we can.

Originally Posted by Roy P

I'd trade Sage and turn around and draft John Parker Wilson to be the backup. Sage isn't going to be here forever, so let's get on with it. If Schaub goes down, we're done anyway.

Sage has one year left on this roster. He thinks he is a starter and could probably do that in the right situation. It's just not going to be in Houston. So, next year we will not have a backup and will be on the market looking for one if we just let Sage walk. Why not already have a guy in place getting groomed for that now?

The choice comes down to which is more important: insurance for Schaub this year or insurance for Schaub for the next 4 years?

Exactly.

[nero THE zero]

10/21/07: L vs. TEN (10-6)
10/28/07: L @ SD (11-5)
11/04/07: W @ OAK (4-12)
12/02/07: L @ TEN (10-6)
12/09/07: W vs. TB (9-7)
12/13/07: W vs. DEN (7-9)
12/23/07: L @ IND (13-3)
12/30/07: W vs. JAC (11-5)

10/05/08: L vs. IND (12-4)
11/02/08: L @ MIN (10-6)
11/09/08: L vs. BAL (11-5)
11/16/08: L @ IND (12-4)
11/23/08: W @ CLE (4-12)
12/01/08: W @ JAC (5-11)

A lot of people place a high value on Sage because of Matt's inability to stay on the field and the perception that Sage plays well when Matt goes down. But, that doesn't really seem to be the case. In games that Sage has played a significant role, the team went 6-8. They went 4-0 against teams with losing records and 2-8 against teams with winning records. That's also 2-8 against playoff teams.

I'm not a huge proponent of placing a W-L value on QBs, but I think this puts some serious perspective on Sage's actual value to the team versus his perceived value.

[barrett]

you explained it perfectly in your post. Every loss is to a 10+ win team. We generally lose to those teams anyways. almost all of the teams he beat are average or bad. Again, generally how we play with Schaub. So by your own stats we don't face a big let down when Sage comes on the field.

I think Sage is nowhere near Schaub as a QB, and I think the more he plays the more his returns diminish because he takes so many chances that the more a team prepares for him the more they will take advantage of him. This is what makes him a bad full-time starter. But as a last minute spot starter, or reliever, there are almost no backups I'd rather have. He will move the ball and give us a chance to win. If you guys think any old scrap heap vet accomplishes the same, we will simply have to disagree. Especially since he is 4 years in the offense.

But the bottom line is if there are so many equal or greater backup QBs in the NFL, then why would any team oblige you in your trade scenario and give up a pick for him? Why not just sign Jeff Garcia or someone else. Your argument is flawed if you say on the one hand we can get a pick for him, and on the other he is instantly replaced with no effort.

[Joshua]

Originally Posted by barrett

But the bottom line is if there are so many equal or greater backup QBs in the NFL, then why would any team oblige you in your trade scenario and give up a pick for him? Why not just sign Jeff Garcia or someone else. Your argument is flawed if you say on the one hand we can get a pick for him, and on the other he is instantly replaced with no effort.

First, I think you're right that no one will offer much for him. However, to address your point, where I think you somewhat go wrong here is the assumption that both the Texans and the team they are trading with are looking for a backup QB. If that were the case, I agree with your point. However, I think most are operating under the assumption that the team trading for Sage view him as a potential starter. That's where the difference in value comes in.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Joshua

First, I think you're right that no one will offer much for him. However, to address your point, where I think you somewhat go wrong here is the assumption that both the Texans and the team they are trading with are looking for a backup QB. If that were the case, I agree with your point. However, I think most are operating under the assumption that the team trading for Sage view him as a potential starter. That's where the difference in value comes in.

Further up the page Nero already stated that the argument is about how valuable sage is, not how valuable a backup QB is.

I just don't see any team offering enough to make it worth getting rid of him. I think his value is greater to us than any other team since he has been in our system for 4 years and we often need a backup to come in.

As for other teams, I don't think any are looking at the off-season thinking, "If only we can pry Sage Rosenfels away from the Texans..."

[nero THE zero]

Originally Posted by barrett

Further up the page Nero already stated that the argument is about how valuable sage is, not how valuable a backup QB is.

I just don't see any team offering enough to make it worth getting rid of him. I think his value is greater to us than any other team since he has been in our system for 4 years and we often need a backup to come in.

As for other teams, I don't think any are looking at the off-season thinking, "If only we can pry Sage Rosenfels away from the Texans..."

There's always teams that will place a different value on a player than you will. There's a balance of need and perceived value that you have to take into account. We have a starting QB and his name is Matt Schaub. We have a back-up QB who has flashed the ability to be a good player. Obviously, after this season, Sage's value will not be nearly as high as it was after the 2007 season. But, that's not to say that there's not a team out there without a starting QB (Jets, Chiefs, Vikings, etc.) that thinks they could take a veteran player who has flashed with other teams into their starting guy.

Remember, my premise isn't necessarily that Sage is a bad player. I think that due to his Thursday night game, his near comeback against the Tacks, and being in the position that affords him to be the most popular guy in town he is . He's simply not untradeable he is overvalued by some. But the job he does as our back-up QB can be done by many other veteran retreads. Do you not think that a Kyle Boller couldn't come in here and throw 3 picks in a loss to double digit wins teams whilst looking like the second coming of Joe Montana against the 4 win Browns?

I don't think that a team would give up a high pick for him. But, if the Jets came calling with a fourth or fifth round pick I think it's a no-brainer. Fact is, what Sage has done for us isn't inrreplacable and if you can get a decent pick for him you take it. Building a good team often entails taking commodities (re: decent back-up players with trade potential) and dealing them.