MOCK Draft 1/8/09

[NBT]

http://www.nfldraftsite.com/ A 3 rounder.

If James Laurainitis is still there at #15, and we don't take him, that would be stupid.

[barrett]

what role do you think a OLB plays in a 4-3? If we take Laurinitis and move Demeco over we MIGHT get a tiny bit better at MLB, and then we will get a lot better at WLB. Considering in a 4-3 the WLB is about the 8th most important position on the field I don't understand this move. Even if Demeco is the best WLB in the league it means he impacts the game as much as Lance Briggs (not that much in other words). And not to mention we are not bad with Diles/Adibi/Bentley.

Especially when we could get better at positions that matter most like DE or DT, or a position where we are bad and actually need improvement (like FS).

For a 4-3 Defense DE, DT, MLB, CB, FS, OLB, SS.

If you take into account our needs DE, DT, FS, CB, SS, OLB, MLB.

[Roy P]

This mock is ridiculous. I mock it. Like most mocks, it tries to consider the needs of the clubs. However, the BPA argument is totally lacking. Also, the player/system is not really considered.

While the Texans have usually surprised me on draft day, if they go after Tyson Jackson simply because he's a DE, that would be stupid.

The Hags had some serious OG issues, but they aren't drafting Duke Robinson in the top 10.

I could go on about Javon Ringer and numerous other examples, but I won't.

It is difficult to go through 7 rounds, especially this early.

If I were to cherry pick this for the Texans, I'm drafting Aaron Curry At #15. Derrick Brooks, Ernie Sims, and Lance Briggs are pretty important in their 4-3 defenses.

This mock doesn't have Taylor Mays, D.J. Moore, or Jeremy Maclin as an option.

At #47 I'd have to take Greg Hardy, and he's not on this mock either. Neither is Sen'Derrick Marks.

At #79, I suppose I'll have to take Brandon Spikes and make him the SAM.

#111, Shonn Greene anyone?

I'll let them update their mock with the declaring Juniors and then pay it some attention.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Roy P

This mock is ridiculous. I mock it. Like most mocks, it tries to consider the needs of the clubs. However, the BPA argument is totally lacking. Also, the player/system is not really considered.

While the Texans have usually surprised me on draft day, if they go after Tyson Jackson simply because he's a DE, that would be stupid.

The Hags had some serious OG issues, but they aren't drafting Duke Robinson in the top 10.

I could go on about Javon Ringer and numerous other examples, but I won't.

It is difficult to go through 7 rounds, especially this early.

If I were to cherry pick this for the Texans, I'm drafting Aaron Curry At #15. Derrick Brooks, Ernie Sims, and Lance Briggs are pretty important in their 4-3 defenses.

This mock doesn't have Taylor Mays, D.J. Moore, or Jeremy Maclin as an option.

At #47 I'd have to take Greg Hardy, and he's not on this mock either. Neither is Sen'Derrick Marks.

At #79, I suppose I'll have to take Brandon Spikes and make him the SAM.

#111, Shonn Greene anyone?

I'll let them update their mock with the declaring Juniors and then pay it some attention.

The starting OLBs for the top 5 4-3 Defenses.

#1 Philly, Akeem Jordan, Chris Gokong
#2 Washington, Rocky McIntosh, Marcus Washington
#3 NYG, Gerris Wilkison, Danny Clark
#4 Minnesota, Ben Leber, Chad Greenaway
#5 Keith Bullock, David Thornton

Hardly a who's who of playmakers, and to a man they are secondary pieces on their teams to the pass rushers who make their defenses go. The role of 4-3 OLB is just not very important. We have our MLB. Pass Rushers and Pass Defenders is what this defense needs.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by barrett

The starting OLBs for the top 5 4-3 Defenses.

#1 Philly, Akeem Jordan, Chris Gokong
#2 Washington, Rocky McIntosh, Marcus Washington
#3 NYG, Gerris Wilkison, Danny Clark
#4 Minnesota, Ben Leber, Chad Greenaway
#5 Keith Bullock, David Thornton

Hardly a who's who of playmakers, and to a man they are secondary pieces on their teams to the pass rushers who make their defenses go. The role of 4-3 OLB is just not very important. We have our MLB. Pass Rushers and Pass Defenders is what this defense needs.

None of the top 5 4-3 defenses were "Cover-2" schemes....hmm. Maybe that should tell us something.

Also, I wanted us to draft Gocong, McIntosh, Wilkinson, and Greenway when they were coming out. Why? Speed.

I would also add that Keith Bullock is among the who's who of playmakers. We sure could use him.

[Bigtinylittle]

It will be very interesting to see whether the new DC has a different philosophy from Richard Smith. If he does, we may be picking several players that fit that philosophy.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Roy P

None of the top 5 4-3 defenses were "Cover-2" schemes....hmm. Maybe that should tell us something.

Also, I wanted us to draft Gocong, McIntosh, Wilkinson, and Greenway when they were coming out. Why? Speed.

I would also add that Keith Bullock is among the who's who of playmakers. We sure could use him.

I agree that I don't want a cover 2. Also I agree it is great to have speed at OLB. I just don't think you pay a first round price, because it's extremely rare to get 1st round impact at that position. Plus I'm not ready to throw away last year's pick adibi. Maybe 2nd or 3rd if it's BPA. But I just don't see a 4-3 OLB having top half of the first round impact.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by barrett

I agree that I don't want a cover 2. Also I agree it is great to have speed at OLB. I just don't think you pay a first round price, because it's extremely rare to get 1st round impact at that position. Plus I'm not ready to throw away last year's pick adibi. Maybe 2nd or 3rd if it's BPA. But I just don't see a 4-3 OLB having top half of the first round impact.

I'm ready to make Adibi a back up and ST player. He simply does not have the top end speed that I want at this level.

I'm not wanting to get an OLB with our first round pick either. It really depends upon who is available. My list of positions for a first round pick looks something like this....

LT
DE
CB
FS
WR
OLB
QB
DT
RB

Of course you have to look at team needs and the players who are on the board when you pick.

Just because I value DE more than CB doesn't mean that I'll be happy to draft Greg Hardy over Malcolm Jenkins.

[painekiller]

Originally Posted by Roy P

This mock is ridiculous. I mock it.
I'll let them update their mock with the declaring Juniors and then pay it some attention.

I concur. I mock this mock.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by painekiller

I concur. I mock this mock.

I enjoy a good laugh, and this mock provided it.

[sinnister]

Originally Posted by Roy P

I'm ready to make Adibi a back up and ST player. He simply does not have the top end speed that I want at this level.

I'm not wanting to get an OLB with our first round pick either. It really depends upon who is available. My list of positions for a first round pick looks something like this....

LT
DE
CB
FS
WR
OLB
QB
DT
RB

Of course you have to look at team needs and the players who are on the board when you pick.

Just because I value DE more than CB doesn't mean that I'll be happy to draft Greg Hardy over Malcolm Jenkins.

I would probably move the FS ahead of the CB, but I see the logic in having a great shutdown CB. Personally, if I have to pick one or the other, I would take a great FS.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by NBT

http://www.nfldraftsite.com/
If James Laurainitis is still there at #15, and we don't take him, that would be stupid.

If you saw the Bowl game with Texas vs. OSU, how did you think Laurainitis played ? And how does he compare to the 2 USC 'backers ?
Could Laurainitis play either of the outside LB positions, or is he strictly a MLB (or ILB in a 3-4) ?

[papabear]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

If you saw the Bowl game with Texas vs. OSU, how did you think Laurainitis played ? And how does he compare to the 2 USC 'backers ?
Could Laurainitis play either of the outside LB positions, or is he strictly a MLB (or ILB in a 3-4) ?

Didn't laurinitis play outside early on...when Hawk was there maybe? Not sure if that means he could play OLB in the NFL, but I would think he could.

[NBT]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

If you saw the Bowl game with Texas vs. OSU, how did you think Laurainitis played ? And how does he compare to the 2 USC 'backers ?
Could Laurainitis play either of the outside LB positions, or is he strictly a MLB (or ILB in a 3-4) ?

This was not my personal mock, I merely posted it for edification. You are free to mock it all you want. The guy was making an opinion, albeit a distant one. As for Laurainitis, he would be better in the 4-3 than would Rey Rey, IMO.

Speed is sometimes overrated at the LB position. It is instinct rather than speed (although good functional speed is important), that is the overriding accomplishment for the position.

[papabear]

Originally Posted by NBT

Speed is sometimes overrated at the LB position. It is instinct rather than speed (although good functional speed is important), that is the overriding accomplishment for the position.

That's a good point. If I remember correctly, some draft guru's we're dissapointed with Demeco's combine time in the 40, but his football smarts and ability to diagnose what's going quickly are what make him so effective. IMO speed shouldn't be the overriding factor when making a decison on a draft pick, but if everything else is judged to be equal (football smarts, toughness, size, etc) then it can be a tie breaker.

For just about any position I think the 10 yd split, the shuttle, and the three cone are more important than the 40. The forty easy to relate too though, and I'm as guilty as anyone at falling in love with a 40 time.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by papabear

That's a good point. If I remember correctly, some draft guru's we're dissapointed with Demeco's combine time in the 40, but his football smarts and ability to diagnose what's going quickly are what make him so effective.

I would assert that putting Ryans at the MLB spot actually helps to hide his slowness. Moving him to the WILL would actually expose him more in my opinion. Being smart and being able to read his keys makes him a good player. He would be a lot better if we had a player like Kevin/Pat/Jamaal Williams in front of him. He could then attack the A-Gaps with wreckless abandon and move freely and flow to the ball.

[Bigtinylittle]

Since DeMeco has gained 15 or more pounds since he was drafted, I'm going to hazard a guess that he is even slower than he was back then.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by Bigtinylittle

Since DeMeco has gained 15 or more pounds since he was drafted, I'm going to hazard a guess that he is even slower than he was back then.

many guys in the NFL are a good half second slower than when they were drafted. With the way the combine works these days every college football player turns into a track athlete in terms of training for the 3 months leading up to it. This means nearly every guy runs the 40 faster on that day then he ever did before or after (I mean fastest actual speed, not fastest recorded time since they all run hand timed 4.4s in HS and college). Not to mention nobody runs in pads.

Really all the 40 does is give an equal comparison point for guys who faced different competition with different coaching at 100+ universities. It's actual football value is limited, but the test itself (and the entire combine) reveals alot about a guy's ability to prepare and perform. If a guy can't get his act together to work hard and test well, knowing the potential rewards, then he may not be a great fit as a pro football player.

[jppaul]

You know that it is a crap mock draft when no one around here even bothers to cherry pick it.

Here is my favorite draft site, and one of the most accurate around I have found. Plus since they use a computer rather than hand selection, they can really churn the drafts out.

Currently they have us taking:

15) Taylor Mays
46) Victor Harris
77) Ricky Jean-Francois
108) Rashad Jennings
144) Shawn Nelson
17?) Kenny McKinley

Plus, you can rank your own players and team needs and use thier draft engine.

http://www.drafttek.com/default.asp

Another favorite of mine is http://www.hailredskins.com/MockDraft.htm because they take all the draft sites and list how many rounds, when updated, whether the draft was professional or amateur.

[Roy P]

Originally Posted by jppaul

Here is my favorite draft site, and one of the most accurate around I have found.
Currently they have us taking:

15) Taylor Mays
46) Victor Harris
77) Ricky Jean-Francois
108) Rashad Jennings
144) Shawn Nelson
17?) Kenny McKinley

First, I love Draftek.

Secondly, if we don't have to trade up to get Taylor Mays, this will be the happiest draft I've ever seen.

If we do draft Victor Harris, then we will be running a Cover-2 system. He's the prototype in this draft. I think I'd rather draft Sen'Derrick Marks.

In the third round, Larry English could be the pass-rushing specialist who I think is comparable to Brian Orakpo, yet I wouldn't have to spend a 1st round pick on him

The 4th round is when I hoped Shonn Greene would be available, but I'll be satisfied with Jennings to push the pile and give Slaton a break.

The 5th round, I'll "reach" and take C.J. Spillman to go along with Mays and be done with my S search once and for all.

The 6th round I'll take yet another DL in Dorell Scott from Clemson.