Offensive Pace

[popanot]

I think we all know the NFL is heading the way of the quick-pace offense and super-mobile QB. It has been proven over the last few years most, if not all, NFL defenses struggle with this up-tempo pace. Even with our turtle QB Schaub, I was happy to see the pace of our offense pick up in the second half and it paid dividends with a win. Without a doubt the Chargers' D was gassed in the 4th QTR.

Question is, why does it take us being down by 20+ to get us into that pace or mindset? We all know Kubiak is a stubborn SOB (some would say brain dead at times), but if he's such an offensive genius, why does he not see that the up-tempo offense works? Does anyone really think Kubiak could handle or change his ways if we did happen to stumble upon a QB like Kaepernick or Wilson?

This isn't meant to bash Kubiak, but I just don't get why he refuses to pick up the pace on a regular basis. These players can run it so I don't think that's the issue.

[cadams]

completely agree.

[Keith]

The up tempo pace works when it gets first downs. When it doesn't, the defense is back on the field quickly and will be gassed by the 4th quarter.

Last night's two games were the arguments FOR the up tempo, and since new media darlings Chip Kelly and the Eagles are doing it, they're now geniuses. But the league always adjusts. The Eagles aren't good enough on defense to keep up with their offense long-term.

As for the Texans, adjusting to the up tempo in the 3rd Q was a breath of fresh air after seeing them huddle against the Patriots in the playoffs down by a million points. Might Kubiak be l-l-l-learning?

[cadams]

i am not saying use it exclusively, but i think they could mix it in throughout the game in situations other than when they are down by 3 scores.

[WMH]

Worked well for the Eagles in the first half, 2nd half....not so much.

In reality, I'm not sure it was exceedingly awesome in the first either.
The Skins went - Fumble, Pick, Safety, Punt, Punt, Punt in the first half. Regardless of pace, the other team's O is going to run more plays and have more scoring opportunities.

Also, these are grown men, in some cases 30+ somethings. Will they be able to sustain up tempo for 16 weeks + the playoffs? Remains to be seen.

[popanot]

Originally Posted by Keith

The up tempo pace works when it gets first downs. When it doesn't, the defense is back on the field quickly and will be gassed by the 4th quarter.

Last night's two games were the arguments FOR the up tempo, and since new media darlings Chip Kelly and the Eagles are doing it, they're now geniuses.

I agree that it puts pressure on your own D when it's not getting 1rst downs, but other teams are using it effectively and you can always slow down as needed. As for the pace the Eagles use, I know for a fact we can't run that. However, we could run our offense at the pace of, say, the Broncos or 49ers. They're up to the line quickly, and then adjust the snap time according to what the D is doing and/or if the O needs a breather.

A perfect example of this is when the Texans went for it on 4th down and didn't make it. They got up to the line and in their initial formation before the SD defense was even set, yet, they took another 8-10 seconds to snap the ball. Of course, Kubiak ran a stupid stretch run play off the LT rather than just running up the gut or a QB sneak, but the point is, they were ready before the D and then lollygagged around and gave the D enough time to set and see what we were doing. Most teams would snap that ball in a flash in that situation, but Kubiak has to continuously run his plodding snap count/motion/play.

[nunusguy]

Originally Posted by popanot

We all know Kubiak is a stubborn SOB (some would say brain dead at times), but if he's such an offensive genius, why does he not see that the up-tempo offense works? Does anyone really think Kubiak could handle or change his ways if we did happen to stumble upon a QB like Kaepernick or Wilson?

Totally agree. If the Texans had of drafted Russell Wilson or somebody like him last year with a midround pick as the Seahawks did, he'd most likely still be on the bench and would have never been given a real chance to compete with Schaub for the starting job.
Don't know if he's that stubborn or maybe that dense, or maybe he's just one of those people who is so risk aversive that he avoids change because of the uncertainty of the results ? I to wish the man was more flexible and willing to experiment. This is why I'm still almost amazed that Kubiak decided to go with that 4th down punt fake with Keo. Maybe that's a glimmer of hope that he (Kubiak) will loosen up a bit ?

[WMH]

Interesting read on this very topic:
http://houston.culturemap.com/news/s...andre-johnson/

[barrett]

Originally Posted by nunusguy

Totally agree. If the Texans had of drafted Russell Wilson or somebody like him last year with a midround pick as the Seahawks did, he'd most likely still be on the bench and would have never been given a real chance to compete with Schaub for the starting job.
Don't know if he's that stubborn or maybe that dense, or maybe he's just one of those people who is so risk aversive that he avoids change because of the uncertainty of the results ? I to wish the man was more flexible and willing to experiment. This is why I'm still almost amazed that Kubiak decided to go with that 4th down punt fake with Keo. Maybe that's a glimmer of hope that he (Kubiak) will loosen up a bit ?

Where does this idea come from that Kubaik won't change? Kubiak is conservative in gameplan but not in player usage. We start rookies every year, and high draft choices often start from day 1. We have had 1st and 2nd year players on the OL, DL, WR, DB, ST, just this year and last. Schaub was given the QB job with no real experience when Kubs could have gone with a vet. Foster won the starting RB job as and UDFA. We just kept 4 UDFAs on the roster this year, including 2 LBs kept ahead of mid round draft picks. We have 1 WR over 25 on the roster. We were the youngest team in the NFL last year and are even younger this year. We are a team that is very flexible in roster makeup and does not hesitate to let proven vets walk in favor of young/cheap potential.

[HPF Bob]

This has part of what I meant in the game thread about the game passing by Kubiak and Phillips. Kubiak is basically using the same thing that worked for the Broncos in the 1990s.

And if the Texans can grind it out on the ground as they can do at times, there's no need to play hurry up or throw the ball all over the parking lot. As more teams become lighter and faster to counteract no-huddle pass-happy hurry-ups, the ground game becomes even more effective when you stick with it. We eat up a lot of clock time and keep the defense off the field when we can march methodically down the field on offense.

But Kubiak's offense Is pretty much a known quantity and so is Phillips' defense. There's nothing particularly new or unpredictable in either one of them. That's okay when your team is more physically gifted than your opponents but, on a level playing field, it's a severe handicap when the other side can predict what's coming.

[barrett]

Originally Posted by HPF Bob

This has part of what I meant in the game thread about the game passing by Kubiak and Phillips. Kubiak is basically using the same thing that worked for the Broncos in the 1990s.

And if the Texans can grind it out on the ground as they can do at times, there's no need to play hurry up or throw the ball all over the parking lot. As more teams become lighter and faster to counteract no-huddle pass-happy hurry-ups, the ground game becomes even more effective when you stick with it. We eat up a lot of clock time and keep the defense off the field when we can march methodically down the field on offense.

But Kubiak's offense Is pretty much a known quantity and so is Phillips' defense. There's nothing particularly new or unpredictable in either one of them. That's okay when your team is more physically gifted than your opponents but, on a level playing field, it's a severe handicap when the other side can predict what's coming.

The other side knows what is coming 99% of the time in the NFL. The confusion we create in the bootleg game (which returned last night after being absent weeks 13-16 last year) is as good as it gets when it comes to creating confusion in the opposition. Nothing Baltimore did was a suprise last year to anyone. Flacco launches deep balls to covered WRs and looks for PI bailouts, or he checks down to Rice and the TEs. They run out of Shotgun. Everyone in the NFL knew it. There defense was even more of a known quality. Every player, formation, and twist they had was on tape before the playoffs started. It's about execution, not the element of suprise. That's why Chip Kelly will get a few weeks or most of a season, but teams won't be caught flat footed for long (especially not teams that play NE who has run most of the Oregon offense for 2-3 years).

When our offense executes and puts pressure on the opposing defense with our play calling, we are tought to beat. When we shut it down (a gameplan issue, not a design of the offense thing) we lose to the Minnesotas and Indys of the world (and almost the SDs).

[Nconroe]

It seems the main question is pace, lots of variables in plays per game.

Anyways, after one week Texans had 75 offensive plays, the same as San Francisco and two less than 77 offensive plays by Philadelphia.

As far as team offensive stats, Texans were third behind Denver and San Fran.

Similarly team defense ranked third overall behind Titans and Seattle.

And Schaub was fourth overall ranked passer in yards and passer rating.

So, atleast after one week some of these theories discussed might not hold much water.

But sure, we could get better and hopefully we are progressing that way.

Now after four weeks or 16 weeks will have a better measure and who knows where this will end up.

[popanot]

Not sure I put much weight into offensive play totals. While it can give an indication of pace, there are a lot of other factors that go into it. Factors like the opposition turning the ball over (or just plain stinking it up with 3 and outs), or perhaps the offense has numerous long drives from dinking it up and down the field. Those can run up offensive play totals too.

Anyway, when I brought up pace, I wasn't necessarily talking quick-snap move-move-move all the time like the Eagles want to do. It's more about getting back after a play and being at the LOS quickly. And then if the situation merits a quick-snap, do it. The Broncos, 49ers and Packers use almost all of the play clock on the majority of their plays, but they're up at the LOS so fast it puts incredible pressure on the D.

I loved our pace in the 2nd half. I'd be happy with that pace if they ran it the majority time rather than only when they're down and in panic mode. I don't know, maybe this has more to do with Kubiak not having confidence in Schaub being able to run it or calling the right play/audible. Maybe Kubiak doesn't feel we can physically do it. It'd be nice to see them try it though. Maybe against the Titans??

[Foo'ball Fool]

This is a good thread. Yes the up-tempo offense is fun to watch, etc. Y'all have covered the bases here. New England does run a chunk of the Oregon offense, but what they do really well is change the pace. One play, it's hurry back to the line and throw a quick slant. Then they may hurry to the line, then audible to something else, using up the play clock. It makes it hard to substitute players, and it keeps the defense guessing. Someone mentioned that a disadvantage can be that you end up gassing your own defense. What the Pats do gives their defense some time to rest between possessions. The Eagles ran Kelly's offense the whole 1st half, and their defense was worn out in the 2nd half.The Texans defense occasionally gets caught napping when the other team, playing a "normal" offense, suddenly hurries to the line and runs a play. I'd definitely like to see the Texans do that once in awhile. Barrett was right. NFL coaches will learn ways to control that offense, just like they're figuring out how to defend the zone read, and how they figured out the Run-and-Shoot, the veer, etc.