Dunta Watch 2009
 

Starting a new thread on Dunta. I'm just plain tired of the old one.

With the broken fibula to Jacques Reeves, how does this change your view of Robinson right now?

The Texans still cannot sign him long-term, but they can sweeten the F-tag with extra 2009 cash or a promise to not tag him in 2010. Worth it?

And even if they do, should/would Dunta accept now, or still wait until a week or so before the Week 1 opener? If I'm him, I'm wondering if I'm still doin' aight without any fractured bones myself, at least in August.

oh, and PFT posted this on Reeves/Robinson, including a little dig at McClain and the chron Sports desk...
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...hears-a-crack/

I don't think you make any additional offers to get him into camp. I think if you do you have handed over all leverage by giving in to his needs and you can kiss him goodbye and the chance at any compensation should he leave.

I still say the 9.9 sits out there for him and it is his only option.

This doesn't change my view of Dunta one bit. If he continues to hold out and then sign a few days before the season starts I'll dislike him even more. Especially if Vic Carucci has a reliable league source that isn't John McClain. From his article about the Texans posted on NFL.com today:

Extra points
» The team's hierarchy isn't happy that Robinson is missing from camp, especially since, according to league sources, he has been offered a deal that would make him the NFL's second highest-paid player at his position. Robinson also is missing valuable work in Bush's new scheme.


If Dunta was offered a deal like Gamble with $23 million guaranteed then he either really thought he wouldn't be franchised and could just walk away or he isn't very smart when it comes to finances and self evaluation. I wouldn't contact him or even show any interest in him. The tag is there and he already knows it. Sign it or don't. I don't care anymore. If he really is set on leaving Houston then I would just assume we find a way to get rid of him.

In lieu of getting Robinson into camp soon this month so he can be ready to go Day 1 of the regular-season against the Jets, Smith/Kubiak are going to have to pull off a trade. I dunno, but I'm thinking starting rookie, seventh-round Draft pick Brice McCain agasint the jets is not an option they really want to be left with ? Especially since this is "the" season when the Texans need a strong early start with a favorable September schedule to have the franchises first winning/playoff season.
So they are gonna have to pull off a trade if they don't go no-tag with Robinson and let him fly away after 2009 without compensation. Jacobey Jones has got to be the most logical bait, or maybe even David Anderson given how strong they are at WR ? And then I'm not even sure if that would fetch them a descent reserver CB, given how important that position is ? I dunno, would they consider trading OD for a real NFL corner if given the opportunity ?

For Dunta, I'm with bckey. Texans made their more than fair offer, all the way in Dunta's court on next step. Texans play who is in camp, and it might be better anways, it is just an unknown to us right now. We'll know as preseason unfolds.

honestly, they are better with him than without him. golver appears to be doing well, but i hope they don't need him at anything more than nickle unless it is because he is playing so well they have to start him. as for dunta showing up, i really don't have a problem with him missing two a days, especially given the chance for injury. he is a vet, he knows what to do, if he is back for 2-3 of the preseason games then i think he will be fine.

It is pretty plain to me. Dunta has worn out his welcome here. If we are now down to 6th rnd pick Brice McCain, so be it!

Surely a vet CB will be cut at some point and the Texans can look there. Dunta has to come in at some point, but I would have a backup plan.

I think it's best to set aside the emotional aspect for a bit, this is business.

The question isn't about whether Dunta is worth $23 million or more, it's whether you agree to either promise not to tag him again in 2010 or sweeten the 2009 compensation to more than $9.957 million in order to get him into camp a couple weeks earlier.

I think I'd agree with barrett on this. Wait it out. Dunta is a vet, maybe he's rusty, but he knows the drill. And the initial slate of regular season games isn't going to be against teams known for prolific passing offenses.

vs. Jets
@ Titans
vs. Jaguars
vs. Raiders

You have to get all the way to Week 5, with reasonably you have both a healthy Reeves and a less rusty Dunta, when you play the Cardinals (with Fitzgerald, Boldin, et al.).

I am on the wait side. Once the season starts, he will be back, I can't imagine he would give up that kind of game check. I am sure he is stayong in "shape", and will get back to form quickly. No need to sweeten the pot. IMO.

Based on what? How did he wear out his welcome? Because you said so? He has not signed his contract, so he is not violating any rule and is not being fined. It is his right not to be in camp. I wish he was in camp, but I see his point, He could get hurt and be done for his career. It was also his right not to sign the long term offer the Texans made, and it was the Texans right not to cave into his every wish.

While, I would love that he be in camp with his teammates, when he gets back I (and the team) will welcome him back with open arms.

More and more I am beginning to hold this against Dunta. He's not quite worth the money that has been talked about -- whether he actually got the offers that have been reported I cannot say. However, by holding out this year when he's clearly going to be well paid in 2009, and the Texans are playing by the rules, is bad form.

If he shows up two days before the first game and is not in playing shape or up to speed, my disappointment in Dunta will edge closer to anger.

I'm just not sure what Dunta is doing here.

If he is fully recovered from the injury I would think he would simply play the year in Top form so he can be paid huge next year. The current tactic only hurts his value when he eventually hits the market and discourages teams from trading for him.

If he is not recovered fully, then he would have taken the long term deal he was offered and ran with it. All that makes sense here is that he was %100 convinced the Texans would cave.

Now that no new deal can be reached, all he could be angling for is a promise of no tag next year. But at what cost? If he gets the promise of no tag next year but misses most of camp and has a bad start as a result, he's cost himself millions by not having the best season he can have.

My guess is he signs the offer early enough to start 16 games. Otherwise he is cutting into next year's payday by sacrificing this year's performance. I just hope the Reeves injury doesn't convince him that the Texans are that much closer to giving in.

Couldn't agree more. I have trouble reading through Dunta threads because they seem more emotional than rational to me. But I guess it all depends on your perspective.

I agree that having Dunta in camp isn't a huge concern to me because he is a veteran and it's not as hard for a corner to adjust to a new DC as any other position on the D. But, at the same time, Reeves' injury has just given Dunta significantly more leverage imo. Before this, I would've guess that Dunta would be signed before the regular season to a deal that didn't include a do-not-tag, although I wouldn't have been sure enough to lay money on it; with the Reeves injury, I think Dunta's much more likely to get that which I don't want him to get, the do-not-tag provision. I certainly hope they're able to find a way to sweeten the deal without including this provision.

I agree, this Reeves injury has really thrown a curve ball. It is pretty apparent the need for Dunta now. Despite what we may or may not think that Dunta is worth, reality is its all about supply and demand. Right now we are looking at starting a 6th round rookie CB for the season. At this point I would venture to say that he, or someone of his caliber, is in high demand right now. Sad to say the Reeves injury benefits Dunta right now. Now maybe stronger play by Mcain or Quin could possibly dilute a little of Dunta's momentum.
Me, personally, pay the man and get it over with.

Nothing to do on that front. The ball is in his court. All he needs/can do is sign or not sign the franchise sheet. They have passed the date for doing a long term deal and have to wait until after the season to get back to that part of it.

I forgot about that. Well it really is simply up to him to work his behind off and prove he is worth the major deal.

Maybe he just doesn't wanna attend training camp in the heat. LOL.

I think it simply amounts to the fact that training camp isn't fun, and he doesn't want to do it. He got his feelings hurt when the Texans gave him a deal that was more than he's worth (methinks his agent was expecting a low-ball offer, as in "Dunta, whatever they offer you, turn it down. They're going to offer you less than another team. That's a fact") and then balked at letting him walk for nothing. Really this holdout reeks of, in my best cartman voice, "screw you guys, i'm going home." He's certainly not accomplishing anything from a negotiations standpoint, and as far as injuries go, his entire tender is guaranteed from the second he signs it, healthy or with a broken neck. I really do have a hard time really wrapping my head around how ridiculous dunta's behavior has been, given the relationship he's had with this team and this city for the past 5 years. "waaa, i don't wanna go to training camp!" is the only thing that makes any sense to me.

Rick Smith should just tell him there will be no tag next year and be done with it.
He can always change his mind later :)...............

No, smart aleck, not because I say so, because a lot of us are tired of his one-sidedness. Sure it's a business, but at some point you have to believe you have made your point and get down to the business of winning this year.

I like this thinking.

Dunta speaks! Dunta speaks!!

then he said...
and then he said...
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/6564888.html

Finally a cool article on this subject from the chron. Thank you Jerome.

Be mad all you want at Dunta, or Rick, or the sun and moon, whatever... but Dunta sorta has a point, maybe? I mean, Dunta was asking for a contract this offseason equal to what he might have earned if proven healthy. Ok, tag him. Next year, he's either already proved it and it's easier to pay him, or he isn't worth the second F-tag.

The only reason to retain the tag would be leverage for trade value. I get that. But at what cost? The Texans need to have their best team ready on the field Week 1.

Give us the right to match any offer (sort of like a RFA) he gets next year and I'm good to go. I still think 9.9 million is too much, but to get the drama done and meet somewhere in the middle...

Once again, I don't think Dunta Robinson wants to be living and/or playing football in Houston, TX. Why ? I dunno, but I'm convinced its not a monetary issue regarding what the Texans are willing to pay him or anything about contract terms, its an issue about geography.

Jerome Solomon
 

So is Solomon Dunta's new agent? He actually wrote two different, full length articles in the same day that both say the same thing. Dunta is still a good guy and the Texans should agree to not tag him again next year.

I understand an opinion piece on this from a sports writer, but he wrote two, literally in the same day. He even has lines in one he used in the other. Do they not have an editor at the chronicle to catch that sort of thing. Maybe tell him to delay one by a week.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6565222.html
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/6564888.html

In both articles his main argument is that the Patriots and Titans once had franchise players and agreed to not tagging them again, so the Texans should too. Nowhere does he mention that the Patriots and the rest of the league had dozens of other franchise players who were tagged and given no promise. I mean just a few months ago the Pats tagged Matt Cassell with no promise of year 2 freedom. Karlos Dansby was tagged for the 2nd straight year and is in camp right now. In all 14 players were tagged and only Dunta is not in camp. That didn't make either article though. Just how the Texans are being cruel and that just because they have a weapon, they should be careful in "how they use that hammer."

I'm still trying to figure out why Dunta and Jerome seem to think the Texans should hamstring themselves next off-season with the possibility of losing their best DB with absolutely no compensation. THAT'S bad business, not making Dunta play for "only" $9.9 million for the year.

Besides that, if the rumors were true, didn't the Texans make a fair market value offer that Robinson turned down? He would have been a top 3 or 4 paid CB (again, if true) and everyone would have been happy. Instead, he turns it down and holds out despite coming off a severe injury and needs all the reps he can get. I don't have much sympathy for the player in this case.

The union would be all over Dunta for that one.

That they did.......and that is the major reason I have turned against Dunta.

Yeah, I know that, just thought it would be a good PR move by the team to get that into the press and have Dunta snivel about that also and run to the league/union rules to hide under. He would just be showing more of his true colors.

I think Mike's point was more than fair. The franchise tag is a useful tool, but any GM that uses it has to be wary of a holdout. I don't think either side (management or Dunta) is being unreasonable, but the vehement reaction from fans surprises me. Dunta has certainly not worn out his welcome with me and likely not with his teammates or management. When I see bluster about how we should not try to bring him back or that he's worn out his welcome, the same thing Mike said goes through my mind.

I like Dunta and hope we can work out a long-term deal next year, but the man is absolutely delusional if he thinks the Texans will waive the tag option for next year. The guy apparently is getting horrible advice from his agent.

I know he's pissed about not getting a contract or being able to test the free agency market, but here's what it comes down to: Either out of greed or respect, he wants a big contract. If it were a matter of just getting out of Houston, he'd probably have demanded a trade by now. He is only shooting himself in the foot by not being out there for training camp. There's a new defensive coordinator and new secondary coach and assuming he sits all of training camp, he's going to come back week 1 and not be on the same page as everyone else. Its then going to take him several games, if not half the season, to get himself back up where he could've been starting the season at. He's then going to bring up questions about whether he has fully recovered and whether he is truly consistent (never really got back up to his full potential last year either) and end up lowering his market value.... and all thats assuming he doesnt get injured in the first half of the season before he gets back up to full speed and REALLY screw his value.

The bottom line is the guy is getting some really bad advice. I know he's worried about getting injured in training camp, but you're a lot less likely to get injured by teammates than opposing players that don't give a damn about preserving you for the season and are coming straight at you. That likelihood is amplified if you're not going full speed because you've sat out training camp and aren't as prepared.

That's my two cents.

Without saying too much I have some inside info
 

I apologize for my irresponsible actions of posting information that should not have been posted. The business side of football should remain behind closed doors and I should have respected the parties involved in their respect to privacy within the matter.

I don't understand why there has been absolutely no talk of a conditional ban on using the franchise tag next year. Dunta obviously wants all-pro money. He turned down Chris Gamble's contract with his name on it, so he obviously thinks pretty highly of his worth on the field. Why the Texans wouldn't be willing to say, "fine. You start in the pro bowl, which would make you one of the top 4 corners in football, or 'worthy of the franchise tag', and we won't use it again." I don't see much of a downside here. Sure, the possibility exists that he'll achieve that incentive and walk leaving us with nothing, but I don't really see that happening. Eventually, especially as you become a really good team, you've got to let certain players go when their contract demands exceed their on-field value, for the good of the team. The way I see it, Dunta's not worthy of the franchise-tag now, nor will he be next season. I say give him a conditional promise, so that when he doesn't quite meet that standard, he has that extra motivation to get a deal done before the deadline to franchise.

He has to have learned something about the business side of the NFL through all of this. Get your butt into camp so you can get up to speed, and then go play for your new contract, be it here or somewhere else. You're not helping anyone at all by holding out right now.

Really it's that that's put such a sour taste in my mouth towards dunta. He is gaining literally nothing. All he's doing is showing the entire league that he can be every bit as stubborn as chad ocho cinco or to. That is not a positive thing.

His tender this year is a sunk cost regardless, so give him that conditional release, get him here and up to speed, enjoy his playing his heart out for a new contract for (hopefully) 19 games, and then worry about signing him long-term. Let him earn his way out of the tag. I'm not convinced that the 2010 offseason is going to be as rife with spending as some of the players may think. With an improved front 7, adding a safety or 2 in the draft next year, and we can be fine with jaques and freddy on the outside with quin and mccain as the nickel/dime going forward. Give us a healthy run into the playoffs, and the chemistry boost you get from a vocal leader like dunta will be far less of an issue, I assure you.

i think the key there is long term. they can change the terms of the one year franchise deal i believe.

No, The franchise tag is the average of the top 5 salaries for that position or a % raise(don't remeber the exact %) over the players last year salart, whichever is higher. I might not have that 100% correct, but the franchise tag amount is set by the CBA. It's nothing the Texans have control over.

I am sure you and your merry band of haters have an opinion that the team or Dunta can give a rats behind about. Get over yourself. If you are tired of him, then go cheer for someone else or another team, just don't get hurt jumping off or crawling back on the bandwagon in a hypocritical fit.

The team gives two $hits about your opinion or the opinion of anyone else, and I am glad for that (see the drafting of Mario.)

Have fun at your "I hate Dunta" meeting tonight while dressed in your Confederate Costumes.

My apologies!
 

Guys I have posted information that I should not have posted. It was irresponsible of me. My request to those who have copied and pasted my quote is to please remove it if you don't mind. I should have respected the privacy of the parties involved in their business matter and it was irrespobsible of me not to do so.

They can agree to a higher amount and they can agree to clauses like Haynesworth got.

But the Texans do not have to agree to anything more than the CBA states.

I knew they could add riders, like the pro bowl for Haynesworth, but I didn't realize they could go over the franchise amount...although as long as they paid the minimum I guess that makes sense. I just didn't realize it was an option.