Trade Dunta?
 

I am not a rule book afficianado. I'm not even sure if I know how to spell afficianado. Is there some sort of trade deadline in the NFL and has that already passed? The question I have is would you be willing to trade DRob for the right price? In my book, the right price would be a 2010 1st round pick. I remember reading somewhere that the most we could hope for was a 2nd. I wouldn't trade him for that. But I would definitely consider a 1st rounder. The thought being that, although we have no elite DB talent, I think the talent is somewhat solid-probably the best we've had. And with an improved, aggressive front 7, solid could look pretty good. I don't like prima donnas. I've loved DRob up until this contract dispute. But now I question whether his loyalty lies more with his teammates or with his bank account. If the club is low-balling him, then I'd side with DRob. But if he turned down the money that has been reported, then he's simply greedy or his ego is larger than his brain.

So would you make the trade?

PS Sorry if this has already been hashed and rehashed. I've been AWOL for a while.

It would be cool if we could dupe a crappy team into thinking they're a DB away from a playoff run and end up with a top 10 pick. Maybe then we could grab Taylor Mays and solve our safety problems that began with Matt Stevens and who was it? Kevin Williams?

I wouldn't bat an eye.

Why not? Dunta has shown pretty much that he is not a team player but a guard house lawyer. He turned down a $23M bonus so he could get on his soapbox and cry about how he is being mistreated because the Texans put the F designator on him! He missed 6 games last year rehabbing the injury, and then when he did come back (albeit before he should have), he let 67% of the passes he defended to be completed. :mad:

As things currently stand we can't trade him. Until he signs his franchise offer there isn't a dang thing we can do with him, other than revoke the offer.....OR...someone signs him and pays us two first round picks (could be less if we want to negotiate it down). Once he signs it, then we can trade him if someone is willing to trade. However, IMO I doubt anyone would offer him a contract remotely like what we did (something north of 20 mill guaranteed and 5 years with a total of somewhere around 40 Mill) until they see that he can actually play a full season at the level he used to. Even then, I suspect the number is higher than his actual market worth.

more interesting might be whether the f-tag was a mistake. not because of his hurt feelings (bo hoo), but because it makes it less likely we can unload him, as edo (edit) just noted.

should we have t-tagged (yikes, one letter makes all the difference) him, instead?

I'll say no. I think we're all a little ticked at Dunta for not being around this off-season, but let's not forget this dude is a leader for our team. I don't think he's a top-5 coverage corner by any means, but that attitude and competitiveness is contagious. There have definitely been times when a loud, aggressive Dunta tackle has fueled up our defense.

Dunta was drafted at #10 overall and is coming into the prime of his career. To trade him for a future 1st round pick, and the lower than 50/50 odds that guy will ever be as good as Dunta isn't great value.

He'll be expensive to sign, but unless he's waiting on an Asomugha type deal, I think he'll end up signing with us for a bit more guaranteed than 23 mil. I just don't know when that will be.

On a larger note, I'm hoping to see some contracts with key players worked out in July.

It's not less likely for us to unload him at all. When a guy is franchised but not in camp they regularly go shopping to other teams looking for the long term deal they seek. Then if a suitor is found, the franchise tag is removed, and a new contract is worked out as part of the trade.

As for trading him, why do it for a draft pick who cannot help us this year? Why give up a piece that can help you in 2009 for a draft pick that won't arrive until 2010. Keep him and the worst case scenario is he sits all year (which he won't do for financial reasons), and then we trade him after the season for a pick in that same 2010 draft.

We are firmly in control of the situation and it would be dumb to dump him for a future pick just because he doesn't feel like playing for us.

I don't think it makes that big of difference in our ability to trade him. Any trade would require a new deal to be worked out with the other team before anything is finalized. Teams use the franchise tag as a way to buy more time to work out a trade. New England did it with Cassel if I'm not mistaken. Most teams know that no one is going to give up two first round picks. The F-Tag just keeps them in control of the player,whether they sign it or not, so they can see what teams will offer. The other team won't go through with the deal until a deal is in place with the player. I'm not sure if the player ever has to even sign the Franchise offer. If they do they can sign it, and send the trade paperwork to the league right after that.


I could be wrong, but that's my understanding.

If Dunta shows up in next week, good for him. otherwise he better be talking real nice to Smith and Kubiak or I guess he'll be gone. you can't be a team leader and be absent, they don't go together.

You don't trade him right now. I have no problem trading him for the right price, and at the right time, but this isn't it. If you were going to trade him before this season it should have been done before the draft so they could pick up anothe rplayer for this year. At this point, there is really no upside to trading him until after the season (unless he isn't the guy he used to be). After the season, if it still looks like it won't work out, then you tag him and tell him he is free to see if his agent can get a trade suitor lined up.

I agree with cadams. You try and trade when you can get best value for a player. I don't think the timing is right.

If it's true that he turned down the multi year contract, I'm scratching my head why?

When does leadership become a locker room cancer? Dunta is an out front type of guy yes, but could he be getting some bad advice?

I really doubt we see problems out of him in the locker room. After all the holdout is done and he reports (may not be until the start of the regular season), then he will be spending the rest of the year auditioning for a new job and a new team. Any bad press that comes out of Houston about him causing trouble will hit him where it apparently matters most to him (in the wallet).

Most likely nobody budges on the contract. He reports only when he has to in order to avoid missing game checks. He plays hard to look good for future employers. He is generally aloof towards teammates and coaches. He leaves next year via trade, after the season but before the draft.

I voted "I wouldn't trade him for anything" although that's technically not true. If I could get a cornerback of the same age and caliber as Dunta who was under contract for a few more years, then obviously I would. Corner's a valuable position and I can't imagine trying to trade a good one coming into his prime. I don't think Dunta's holdout's unreasonable, nor do I think the Texans are being unreasonable in wanting to see a year of him healthy. Truthfully, we should have locked Dunta up a few years ago. That said, I think the Texans need to bite the bullet on this one. Good cornerbacks don't come cheap, but there's a reason for that. If you've got one, you don't let him go; doubly so if you're in a division with Peyton Manning.

I don't know that this is an accurate statement. Not really sure why, aside from the obvious monetary reasons, but it's not uncommon at all for a good to even great cornerback to switch teams. It's not like great quarterbacks or left tackles that normally stick with their teams until the twilight of their careers.

Just off the top of my head:
D. Sanders
C. Bailey
T. Law
A. Woodson
A. Samuel

D. Robinson had an above average rookie season and I would argue that his rookie year was his best; those flashes we saw gave us hope for more but the greatnest never materialized . I will no be surprised at all if he is wearing another uniform next year but I don't think it will be because of a trade... I think we let him walk.

Unless I have missed something, why are we willing to give up so soon on Dunta. I am not saying at all that he is back up to his normal self. But that was only half a season that he played. I think he deserves at least a full season to really assess his status. However I have been reading that Glover Quinn is doing great in OTA's. Let this guy get some more reps in the league and training camp. If turns out to be more than a nickel or dimer then lets start discussing trade rumors. Like so many others have said whats the use of giving up a starting corner for a draft pick next year. Then your back to square one.
Jacque Reeves and a whole hell of lot of maybes. At this moment with Dunta playing we are a better team.

Here's a thought. If dunta's speed is not where it needs to be, why are we not considering working him out a safety like was previously discussed?

DRob has played in 63 games. Equivalent of 4 seasons.
1st four seasons in the league.

DRob 329 Tackles 45 Pass Dfl 13 int. 1 TD
Champ ? Tackles ? Pass Dfl 16 int. 1 TD
A.Sam. 188 Tackles 43 Pass Dfl 16 int. 2 TD

I'm not saying that DRob is better than these guys at this point in his career. Im just saying he deserves at least one full season to see if he's back to normal.

It doesn't really come down to how DRob compares to the elite cb's of the NFL. It comes down to his unwillingness to sign what was reported to be a Chris Gamble type contract. The Texans offered him elite money even with the unsurety of him ever being what he was pre-injury. Instead the Texans had to franchise him so that he couldn't just walk. Dunta has made it pretty clear he doesn't want to play in Houston with his actions not necessarily his words. He said he would report to camp if the Texans would promise not to franchise him next year. He wants to play somewhere else. He has alienated himself from most Texan fans that used to be behind him 100%. I'm worried he will be a cancer in the lockeroom this year because he feels he has been disrespected by Rick Smith and the fans are really getting tired of all his whining. I say get rid of him now and be done with him.

I hear all this crap about what Dunta deserves, but what about what the team deserves? The Texans weren't exactly putting DRob on bread and water when they offered $23M in guaranteed money! Come on people, he is looking out for himself to get the fattest contract he can get before the league starts capping these humongous bonuses.

Who cares if he alienated fans? That has nothing to do with anything. I would hope that those alienated fans care more about winning and what's best for the team.

If we can't get a player for Dunta their is absolutely ZERO reason to trade him before next year's draft. Use him for what he's worth before he leaves if that's what he wants. The franchise tag gives us all the power here and letting him get his way for pouting just because some fans don't like him anymore would be foolish.

I understand that he is possibly being stubborn here. But how many stars are not. There is definately a business side to football. Me personally I would have taken the franchise tag offer and worked my ass off this year to prove that I was worth a long term deal. But its not me. I dont think this is a personal attack on the team in any way. When it comes down to the business side, the players must look out for themselves because the owners surely are not. They will trade you or release you without a hesitation if it fits their scheme of things. So he must look out for himself or no one will.

2. Its not uncommon for players to want long term security.

But Dunta doesn't want that security in Houston

Dunta WAS offered long term security at a level FAR above what he should have been (20+ million guaranteed), but top 5 CB money just wasn't good enough for him. What does that say? To me it says "I don't care what you offer, I don't want to be here". So, the team stuck with him through his injury and paid him the whole time with no complaints and he turns around and craps in their hand on the long term offer that he supposedly wanted and then snivels that they franchise him for a MERE 9.9 million guaranteed and then wants them to grantee they wont franchise him next year. Well screw him and the horse he rode in on. Wait to the last dang minute, withdraw the tag and let him get what he deserves...... maybe 2 million from some team. And that BS about "They said they wouldn't franchise me" is just that, BS. If he has more smarts than a box of rocks, he would know that isn't even a possibility in the negotiations. The team probably didn't expect to have to do it because they expected him to accept the type of offer he said he was looking for. Frack him and chuck his butt out of town in the worst possible situation that they can create. If the team was trying to low ball him and take advantage of his injury situation I would feel very differently, but basically the guy flat out lied about wanting to be a Texan until he retired and he proved it when he rejected exactly the type of contract he said he wanted.

Please explain how this helps the Texans win football games next year.

By keeping the 10 mill and getting player(s) who wants to be here and will actually contribute to the team and not be a locker room asshat. Heck use the money to sign the guys that are actually playing and needing a new contract. I think there might be a couple of those guys out there. It also gives the satisfaction of punking a dipstick that basically spit in your face while lying to you. Dunta on his BEST day was a just slightly above average CB. Pretty good against the run and fair at best against the pass. Last season showed him to be less than marginal as a CB. Might he come back better than last year, yes but do you really think he will even be back to 90% of what he was when he was just slightly above average? So we make him a stupendous offer and get treated this way.... I'm sorry, when the team goes out of it's way to do more than fair by the player and you get this level of whinny disrespect, then just jackem up. And if you think any one will trade a 1st or even a 2nd for him you need to back off on the drugs.

I pretty much agree with everything edo783 said concerning Dunta. Get rid of the bum. The sooner the better.

First sign of a contract squabbled and people fly off the deep end. I'm sure glad Kubiak and Smith are playing this close to the vest and not overreacting. It would not surprise me at all to see this getting resolved with a new contract at some point. If it doesn't, well then trade him before the '10 draft - or for a player like Landry or Atogwe (sp??). Dunta has everything to lose by not playing hard and/or being an a$$-clown in the locker room this year. I doubt he's going to do that. He might make a comment to the media about his contract status from time to time, but I doubt he's going to be a disruptive force in the locker room. For one, I don't think the leaders on this team would put up with it, and second, Kubiak would put his arse on the pine if he doesn't perform and they have a suitable replacement. Dunta loses big-time if that happens.

I still cannot believe that you are calling for the team to just let him go. Some are calling for a trade, and while not logical in timing, it is a possible NFL move. To just pull the offer and let him walk is colosally stupid.

Almost nothing you said has anything to do with winning games next year. Most of it is just whining that is out of all proportion to the situation. You are reacting like Dunta has somehow personally wronged you by trying to get paid more money. He may be delusional and he may not want to play in Houston, but neither makes him the anti-christ.

Dunta will sign the offer before he loses game checks because obviously money matters to him. Then he will play hard for us because it's a business and he'll be auditioning for a new team. Then he will likely leave after the year through a trade for a 2010 draft pick. In this scenario we get a season of play from him (and he is certainly one of our 2 best CBs). And we get compensation for him in some form when he leaves.

In your scenario we get the "satisfaction of punking a dipstick that basically spit in your face while lying to you." I am very glad that our GM isn't running our franchise looking to punk people.

Agreed.

I dont understand why people are really pushing to get rid of this guy as if CB is our strongest position. If by some stretch of the imagination he is released or traded for a 2010 draft pick, I hope Quin becomes a stud because otherwise we will be bringing back the same sub par secondary that we had last year.

And as far as saving the money from Dunta contract to sign a good player. I can count on one hand how many impactful free agents we've signed since our inception.

Lets just go with our best options for winning right now.

I don't know, I think he is scared of injury. I think that last injury shook him. If you need evidence, the look at every play where a pile was rolling up on him, he looked like a rabbit, hopping around.

In a game dominated by bravado and fearlessness, amongst a car crash a play, the realization of your own mortality in the context of football life, has to be a debilitating thought.

Compound that with the epiphany that this is all you have ever done, that you have little skill outside of a 40x100 rectangle of sod, and other likeminded individuals, little other ability to make a living or to provide for your family, it makes sense.

Considering all that I think his position becomes clear, and I for one firmly believe that he should do what is best for his family. I know that by stating such sentiments I am standing in the way of an almost universal countertide, but I have little problem with Dunta or his stance.

Well, just for the sake of discussion, if Dunta were really upset, and became a locker room cancer,or really wants out of town, and likely that is not the case, but if it was judged to be true by those close enough to know, then it would help win games if he were not here. But, if it is just negotiating, no hard feelings, everyone is positive, all the teammates are ok, then keep him, assuming he can play good enough to make the team, like he did three years ago. And maybe he gets a long term deal and everyone is happy and even more happy once we go to the playoffs. We seem to get mixed signals out of Dunta and his agents, so we get confused on the best way forward as well.

Sounds like a fair enough assessment.

So now that Daniels has decided to take the Dunta route, I guess we should jettison him too. :rolleyes:

Greedy bastards!!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...t/6466951.html

I think Dunta's case is unique. He turned down what pretty much everyone except him thinks is a more than fair offer and long term deal. The guy doesn't want to play in Houston and he is mad because he got franchised.

It's the nature of the NFL beast right now. The CBA is about to exprire and the players whose contracts are expiring are getting antsy over their money. Right now I can't put Daniels in the same league with Robinson. Owen is restricted and Dunta is F-tagged. Lots of difference there. Owen is mildly confused, Dunta is foaming at the mouth over the F-tag. I would placate Owen and get rid of the other.

Daniels isn't mildly confused; he knows that if they don't reach a CBA then he will not be a free agent next year because the uncapped year rules are different and require more accrued experience.

I would be willing to bet he'd get a much better deal in free agency if he has a solid year. I can understand why the Texans wouldn't want to go higher, but I still think they're wrong.

In 2007, Asante Samuel got $20 million guaranteed on a 6-year, $57 million contract.

In 2008, Nnamdi Asomugha got $28.5 million guaranteed on a three year, $45 million contract, Marcus Trufant got a $20 million guaranteed on a 6-year $50 contract, and Chris Gamble got a $23 million guaranteed on 6 years and $50 million.

Asomugha is the top CB in the league and Dunta won't approach that money, even with the increases that come from year to year. But I think that Trufant and Gamble were able to get similar deals to Samuel a year later is as good an indicator as any of the way contracts go up each year. Considering the likely increase next year even if they reach a CBA, Dunta should be able to get $22-25 million guaranteed if he has a decent year. And if there is an uncapped year then that money might go up further. Last I heard, the Texans were supposedly offering $18-19 and Dunta wanted $23. I think it'd be rather shocking if he couldn't make better than the Texans offer on the open market. I think there's a good chance he could make more than he's asking for right now. Add in that Dunta has sufficient leverage to ask for the franchise tender to have a no-franchise clause (which has happened several times in the last few years) and the leverage goes even more in Dunta's favor. It may be a lot of money, but the Texans offer doesn't look like much more than an opening offer. If that's their final offer, Dunta should leave.

You act like Dunta is coming off of a career year. He's not. He's coming off of starting the year on the PUP and then finishing it as a part time player who could tackle but couldn't cover.

To this point we have not seen Dunta close to the level he played at in 2007. To me it makes sense that if he wants a long term deal right now under these circumstances, then he is going to have to give a discount for security's sake. Or if he is that confiddent in himself and his health, he can play the year at $10 million and get the big payday next year. Either way he has no right to cash in for anything close to $25 million based on what he showed on the field last year.

So sign the deal for less or bet on yourself and perform your way to the big deal next year. I hope he plays like the Dunta of old and gets every dollar he can. But either way I am glad we're not throwing $25 million at a guy who is almost 2 years away from playing good football.

According to reports and not denied by Dunta or his agent, we offered him a contract similar to Gamble's, long term with 23 million guaranteed. Even in his BEST form that would probably be more than he is worth, or at the very least at the very top of his market/playing worth. We did that after paying him during the time he was off and after a less than stellar return and yet he didn't want the deal. To think that we some how didn't give a stupendously good offer is ludicrous. IMO, we are lucky he didn't take it as he isn't worth it nor IMO is he worth the 9.9 mill of the franchise. Lots of fans are in love with the hits he does in the run game, but seem to forget that other than his rookie year, he was rather consistently beat in the passing game. Does he seem to bring some fire to the defense, yes at times, but is that worth burying the cap room to pay for what is a mediocre CB at best and perhaps not even mediocre these days.