Andre contemplating his future- please stay
 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...texans-future/

""And in the days since, it doesn’t sound like Johnson is thrilled with the direction of the franchise, saying he wondered “is this still the place for me?”

“This offseason has been very frustrating for me,” Johnson said, via the Houston Chronicle.

Johnson, speaking at a charity event, said he hadn’t asked for a trade, but won’t be reporting to voluntary OTAs or minicamp.""

I don't blame him at all. We have not shown any real intention to win this year, and the truth is it will probably be 2016 at the earliest before we are serious contenders (and that is assuming we get a QB in 2015). I have no idea why Andre or Foster are here with that being the case. I would have thought they'd be off the books already.

I imagine that they couldn't get anything of any real value for them in a trade and if the defense is as good as it could potentially be they think that they might luck into a 9-7, 10-6 even and sneak into the playoffs. Hell, they could win the division at 10-6.

This is not my thinking of course, but you'll recall that McNair thinks they are a playoff team.

I guess O'Brien has to half play along with McNair's playoff dreams even as he willfully goes into a season with no QB. I would rather we lose and solve the QB position early in next year's draft than go 10-6 because our division and conference are terrible.

Either way I wish AJ and Foster were off the books before 2015, a season we could conceivably contend in. Even if it meant no compensation. And I say that even though they are two of my favorite players and very likable humans (not always the same).

But realistically what are the Texans (and Andre's) options if he were willing to be traded ? Obviously nobody would be interested in him with his giant contract,
and there's no way around it is there even if AJ were to agree to a massive restructuring ? Of course he could retire, but I suspect he's not frustrated enough with the plight of the Texans to forgo all of that money.

I'll preface this rant by saying that AJ always has been, and probably always will be one of my favorite players to watch. Dude can ball.

HOWEVER.....

The Texans don't owe him $hit. He's been very well compensated during his time here, and has been treated very well. We sucked last year, and will probably not be great this year. But he's got a job to do, and he's paid well to do it. Drives me nuts when pro athletes talk about "wanting to win", "looking for a ring", then as soon as they are able to hit FA, they grab the cash and run. AJ never hit FA because the Texans ponied up and gave him a more than generous deal that is neither team nor cap friendly. If he truly wanted to be a "team" guy, he would have taken a pay cut to help us get out of cap hell the last 2 years and maybe they could have been more active in FA. Doubt he'll bring that up to the media.

He's untradeable, with a $12MM cap acceleration that we can't absorb.

He plays for us, he sits unpaid, or he retires. Period, exclamation mark.

This. I have always felt this way and have taken flak for it. I like AJ and I hope he returns but I have a hard time being sympathetic to any unhappy pro-athlete that makes more in a handful of games than I will make in my lifetime.

On the radio, he (AJ) said he will make his decision soon. The radio guys are saying there is no decision - he needs to get to camp. So, I'm thinking his decision comes down to either a) he comes back or b) he retires....

I'd love to see him on a team with a legit chance to win a Super Bowl. I just hope it isn't something like a Steeler or a Raven or a Patriot and we get pennies on the dollar.

what happens to his cap number if he somehow decided to retire?

His choice is how much money he's willing to give back. If he's willing to sign a totally new deal with his new team, than we can get something for him. If his agent goes shopping and says "Dre will take 2 years and less than $10 milion," then somebody will give up a pick for him. If not then he can try to make us cut him, but we have no incentive and I am not sure he is capable of playing the bad guy.

As for the idea that anyone who makes lots of money for sports is beyond sympathy, that is a viewpoint that some of you have, and I am cool with that. I know plenty of unhappy rich people, and plenty of well paid people who hate their job/employer. I feel bad for them on the same level I'd feel bad for a poor person or a poorly paid person in the same situation. I feel bad that AJ has gone to work and been excellent for the last decade and his bosses have made that mostly irrelevant. How much he does or doesn't make has nothing to do with it in my mind, but I get those who think it does.

Andre's contract year by year is explained here - most likely -
http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/houston-t...andre-johnson/

In 2010 Andre Johnson signed a 7 year / $67.80 million contract with the Houston Texans, including a $2,817,500 signing bonus, $20,500,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $9,685,714.

The contract and restructure to help Texans cap space is as this most likely-
Sep 3 2013 - Restructured 2013 salary/roster bonus from $10.5 million to $5 million with Houston (HOU)
Mar 13 2012 - Restructured 2012 salary from $6.5 million to $700k with Houston (HOU)
Aug 5 2010 - Signed a 7 year $67.8 million extension with Houston (HOU)
Mar 3 2007 - Signed a 6 year $70 million extension with Houston (HOU)
Jul 22 2003 - Signed a 6 year $39 million contract with Houston (

I agree with this totally. He is the only great player the franchise has had (if JJ stays healthy for a decade hell surely be the second) and as I have lamented time and time again the organization has effectively squandered his career.

I will add that Andre has largely kept his mouth shut. I would not begrudge his being much more vocal about his displeasure but it strikes me as typical that he was fairly reserved and understated and that the occasion was a charity event he freaking organized.

Oddly enough I ran into him in the airport in Miami about three weeks ago and was able to give him a distilled version of all of this. Unsurprisingly he was not terrifically loquacious.

It's a business. He's a paid professional athlete. He's among the elite at his position and is paid accordingly. Everyone familiar with the NFL knows who he is and respects his accomplishments. Irrelevant he is not. In another forum, someone said he's Barry Sanders - Houston version. I agree.

What we got here is a disgruntled employee. And he's not disgruntled with his pay (or he shouldn't be). As of right now, he's got two choices: 1) Suck it up, honor his contract and come back to work and (hopefully) play with the same passion or 2) retire.

A third option is possible but would take negotiating. He could ask out of contract to seek employment elsewhere. The Texans don't have to sit down at the negotiation table if they don't want to.

Much of what you write is inarguable. The difference of opinion that you and I have is that I am not bothered by his speaking out and you are. From the many things you have said on the subject over the years I side with barrett in thinking that the source of your annoyance is the amount of money he is paid.

This reminds me of the legions of fans who took the owners' side in the lockout, a horde of class-envious wage slaves falling for empty sophistry to side with a bunch of billionaires who'd as soon as piss on you as anything else.

I have no problem with you or anyone else having no sympathy for him. But it is a joke if you think he is compelled to honor a contract that the Texans are not compelled to honor. Does anyone on this forum honestly think AJ is going to play out that contract? There is a 100% chance that he is cut/traded before it expires.

No NFL player needs to honor their contract because no team needs to honor it. Every team and every player is in a continuous state of "go get yours." If Andre decided that at his age getting his is more about playing with an NFL level QB and having a chance to win, than I hope he gets it. And if the Texans decide it is in their best interest to let him go or trade him (now or a year from now), good for them. Those are the current rules of the game.

But why should he honor a contract the Texans will surely not honor.

I'm a Texan fan. Players come and go. No one player is bigger than the team. That's what annoys me. He really picked a bad time to rock the boat. The team is in transition and need his services. Draft strategy might have been different......

I think you're saying it's a divorce and I'm pro-husband and you are pro-wife, OK, whatever... we're both right. ;)

Unless the wife works for the husband or vice-versa this is an analogy that is difficult to translate.

Huh?

"Show up for work and get paid. Don't show up for work and don't get paid."

That's a basic concept you'll find in a contract.

If he just wants to not go through all the OTA's and minicamps like a lot of older players do, I'm betting the Texans would accomodate that.

He's under contract for what, 3 more years? Contractually, he's property of the Texans unless they work something out, i.e. negotiate.

Jake Plummer took retirement over being traded to Tampa Bay.... That was his right.

Maybe he wants to retire and could give a rat's behind who the QB is.... I think a tenured player makes it known if he is going to retire or gives them a "this is my last year and let's adjust the contract". Likewise, a player of AJ's stature would (or should) receive plenty of notice if the team no longer wants his services. Maybe he's heard some whispers......I dunno. JMO, but I think the Texans think he's still got it and want him to stay....

I dunno chuck, I was finding it difficult to relate to being a "class-envious wage slave falling for empty sophistry " so I reached a little... :rolleyes:

Another thing that is usually a basic concept of a contract is that you get paid as long as you keep showing up. That is not the case in the NFL. For whatever reason the NFL has developed a contract system where teams have the right to fire at any moment, for any reason, with no penalty. Meanwhile, players are able to use holdouts, media comments, agent negotiated trades, skipping of optional activities, giving less than perfect effort, etc..., to get what they want.

Usually getting what they want involves money. For Andre it appears to involve being thrown to by an NFL QB.

Like I asked earlier. Do you really believe the Texans plan to honor Andre's contract if he stays?

And he has far more options than show up or retire. In fact we are seeing one of them play out right now. He made one small, mostly harmless comment and turned the whole fan base upside down. You can bet O'Brien and McNair noticed, and you can bet 31 other front offices are silently watching.

I guess the property got sick of the manner in which he was being owned. Too bad for you and the Texans he can do more than just "honor the contract" or retire.

Same as if he were cut. If it didn't work this way, then this would be a serious loophole in the salary cap system.

Andre has a nice chunk on guaranteed money in this deal. I don't question he's frustrated and has no real options, I just question his timing to speak out now. Maybe he expected more from the team this offseason to address the QB position?

Short of retiring though, not sure what Andre expects to get out of this. He doesn't speak often like this to the media, which is why this is as big a story it is. Seems like he basically paid a $30k check out of his charity to create a media opportunity to air his grievances.

And I wouldn't call it mostly harmless... he is already questioning his new QB (Fitzpatrick) before he even hits mini-camp. That's not really how a good teammate and leader acts, which again, knowing how little Andre speaks, really says a lot about his frustration.

Had the Texans used a first-round pick on a QB, even a second rounder, he might have been pacified. But to the surprise and frustration of some of us (obviously including AJ), Rick & Bill practically waited until the 5th round for a QB, signalling they are all about the rebuilding process and not the POs, atleast anytime real soon. So like a childless woman rapidly leaving her primary childbearing years, AJ is getting anxious about his remaining years for a SB game.

I read on another messageboard that AJ informed the team of his frustrations/uncertainty of his desire to go through a rebuilding process again several weeks ago; i.e. before the draft.

I suspect if the Texans had taken a QB, it would have made the situation better, but I'm not sure it would have changed it entirely. AJ rightfully recognizes that this team probably won't realistically compete until 2016 at the earliest. I understand his desire not to play the last few remaining years of his career on a team which he knows going in is going nowhere.

Andre has been our favorite player and best player for several years, so loosing him before the end of his career is a frustrating thought. I guess he will always be a Texan and hope when he goes in HOF it is as a Texan.

And the results of Texans last year in particular and perhaps over last 11 years in total is also frustrating to all of us, not just to Andre.

I think team overall has tried its best, it just hasn't reached the SB yet.

And if I were worried about my legacy perhaps that would bother me some. Look at Antione Bolden, frustrated as no. 2 WR in Arizona, goes to Baltimore and becomes a hero and gets his SB ring, and then released by Baltimore as FA, now at SF. So, is there a similar scenario out there for Andre. is getting close , good enough, very lucky if one gets to SB, ever, no matter which club with or who QB is.

Then, the team is bigger than any one player is a typical view and each player should do his best to help that team he is on at the time. Which would include a positive attitude, especially in public. AJ has been this guy in the past.

Two weeks notice or mention of frustration, one draft process/draft board, already likely set before that is not enough time to fix what ails Texans no matter who drafted. I doubt any of QBs in this year draft class or last years are known or guaranteed successes, all need to practice, get some NFL experience, and then we might know latter in year if drafted QB is what hoped for, or could take longer, right now all are speculating.

We don't really know if Texans have said anything back to Andre other than practices are voluntary and hope to see you soon. We don't even know who Texans expect will be their QB when season starts. We can all have widely differing opinions on this right now.

Hopefully they will talk, Andre can gain trust for new coaches, feel some optimism, and stay. Give it time, no rush right now.

If not, sure, if can't be happy here, time to go is his right to choose that somehow. Hopefully good decision for all by end of training camp.

I highly doubt taking a QB early would've changed what AJ is feeling. I like the Texans chances of rebounding just as much or just as quickly as the Browns, Vikings, or Hags. I think it has more to do with ALL of the changes in their entirety and knowing we're once again an extreme longshot for a Super Bowl run.

It's sad on so many levels, really. While I love AJ and have enjoyed watching him play immensely, if they can trade him (which will likely require he renegotiate), I say do it and let's move on. I hope he stays, but I'm also ready to turn the page and get on with a new era.

So why is Andre speaking NOW, in May, after the draft? Did he not feel this way in January? February? March? April?

The timing is just really odd. Either he has been living in denial or it just took him more than 4 months to organize his thoughts into actual words. Maybe he thought he could negotiate a different set of contract terms to get himself out earlier. Andre hasn't exactly always had the best representation over the years (he only replaced his uncle as his "agent" about four years ago).

Here is a pretty good writeup on AJ salary and cap hit.

http://overthecap.com/thoughts-andre...rned-contract/

As I read it, salary and contract likely contributes to AJ frustration as much as thinking he might have a low performance this year due to Texans QB than desired, since after this year he can be released by Texans with no cap hit under current deal.

He has been paid, but less than other superstars such as Fitzgerald at Arizona, or other less accomplished receivers even.

There are about 12 teams that could absorb his salary as is in a trade, only a handful have good expectation to reach SB and they seem to have WR already.

Johnson represented himself in 2007 when he signed a 6 year extension with the Texans. Johnson had two years remaining on his rookie contract at the time so this extension would take him to the age of 33, meaning it would be the only big contract of his career. Johnson had been scheduled to earn $15.7 million in the 2007 and 2008 seasons of his rookie contract and would have likely increased that number to $16.7 million via escalators.
In his negotiated extension he received a raise of just $3.325 million, none of which would be paid until 2008. He was guaranteed next to nothing and the contract structure was such that he never carried a cap hit in the extension years that would exceed $8.65 million. In addition the signing bonus was so small that he could have been released very quickly had he been injured or ineffective. For that tiny guarantee and raise he was locked in at a price of $7.468 million per year for the next 8 years.
http://overthecap.com/thoughts-andre...rned-contract/
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Good read Nconroe, I had no idea (or maybe just no memory) of the deal back in 2007 so screwing up Johnson's opportunites for maximizing his monetary rewards during his NFL career. Well atleast he didn't have Vince Young's uncle managing his financial affairs.

There are a few trade rumors already-

Likely not gonna happen as not a SB contender, but if AJ just wants out, there is a connection to Kyle Shanahan in Cleveland.

http://fansided.com/2014/05/14/houst...andre-johnson/


Then Oakland could afford the trade also and reunite AJ with Schaub, likely not too desireable. http://www.sportsworldreport.com/art...draft-pick.htm

Would Boston need a receiver or Denver ? not sure they have cap space.

Then teams with most salary cap as of today by nflpa are, of course Texans could get back something of value but likely a future draft pick.
https://nflplayers.com/reports/RunPu...x?report=top51

Cleveland Browns $29,578,619.00
Jacksonville Jaguars $27,411,264.00
Cincinnati Bengals $24,495,252.00
New York Jets $23,815,532.00
Philadelphia Eagles $20,288,629.00
Tennessee Titans $19,349,452.00
Miami Dolphins $16,360,752.00
Green Bay Packers $15,029,643.00
Indianapolis Colts $13,980,129.00
Buffalo Bills $13,526,046.00
Tampa Bay Buccaneers $12,898,204.00
Oakland Raiders $12,755,335.00
Houston Texans $12,577,001.00
Seattle Seahawks $10,385,225.00
Minnesota Vikings $10,300,374.00
Atlanta Falcons $8,436,074.00
New England Patriots $7,676,705.00
Chicago Bears $7,563,488.00
Baltimore Ravens $6,221,523.00
Carolina Panthers $5,770,796.00
St. Louis Rams $5,709,358.00
Dallas Cowboys $5,540,942.00
Denver Broncos $5,478,342.00
Arizona Cardinals $4,920,218.00
Kansas City Chiefs $4,189,904.00
San Francisco 49ers $3,999,667.00
New York Giants $3,915,589.00
San Diego Chargers$ 3,586,579.00
New Orleans Saints$ 3,450,141.00
Washington Redskins $2,590,869.00
Detroit Lions $1,351,334.00
Pittsburgh Steelers $311,934.00

I'm sure he did. You don't think his sideline argument with Schaub and him walking off the field were a precursor to all this? We all knew his frustration with the performance of the team and it's been nothing but change and reboot since then. Perhaps the reason he didn't publicly say anything up until now is because 1) he's obviously a reserved man, 2)he likely wanted to spend his offseason with some level of privacy, and 3)the interview the other day was his opportunity to vent and the time was right to do it in his mind. Who knows? A reported might have asked him what his thoughts were on all the changes and he vented. Personally, I think it might a bit overblown and AJ will come to his senses and realize this city loves him and that it might not be so rosey on the other side.

Looking at that list, Philadelphia looks like the best potential trade partner. NFC team, high remaining cap number. High passing offense. Team just got rid of DeSean Jackson. Foles can put up the numbers. Playoff caliber team.

I just read another of those draft reviews that gave Texans an A+ because they really like Savage and think we will be back in playoff hunt this year with Savage as starting QB.

So, was thinking it would be neat if AJ would stay, become team inspiration like Ray Lewis in Baltimore for the Texans to play in Reliant Stadium Superbowl year after this in 2017.

Wonder what odds on that happening are?

Some unusual rumors flying around about Andre now.

First yesterday was some tweets that Andre might consider coming to training camp.

Now today is news Texans turned down Andre's request to earn back $1mil roster bonus he lost for not attending mandatory mini camp

and Andre saying then trade me.

So, this is a sticky situation. seems people playing the loose-loose game.

If we can get a first round pick in return, go ahead and trade him. If we can get some cap relief out of it, even better. I've loved what AJ has done for us for a decade but he's not going to be around the next time the Texans are contenders so let him go to some place (please, not Baltimore, Oakland or Pittsburgh) where he might have a chance to win a ring.

Imagine that. The daily fines are about to kick in, and AJ is in the building. What a shocker. I will also be completely astonished when he starts collecting his $700K game checks.......

I wouldn't be surprised at this point if McNair tells Rick to throw a guy a bone just so he can save some face.

But it was never about the money. He wanted to "win". Blah blah blah.

Then, I'm guessing around week 6 or 7, he'll fall untouched again and be lost for the season.

Damn, I sound like Chuck. ;)

I don't know if there has been a star player who has shown less concern for money. I still remember the year his uncle said he might hold out. The next day the media all asked AJ about it and he laughed and said no chance. He didn't even care that he had destroyed any leverage his uncle had with his comment. I just think he's not real money savvy.

For the last 6 plus years he has had huge leverage as the Texans only real star and never tried to turn that leverage into cash. He signed a ridiculous 7 year deal that cost him money in his key earning years. He employed his bumbling uncle as agent through his prime.

I just seriously don't understand how anyone sees this guy miss a few optional workouts and one mandatory mini camp and concludes he is about the money. And even when it is about the money for a player, I also don't understand how pro sports fans continuously side against "spoiled, overpaid" players and side with owners and teams that are 100Xs richer.

Here is a guy who came to work every day for 11 years with his mouth shut and worked hard (like many on this site do at their job). In year 12 he wanted a change but never once said anything about money or a new deal. And he gets branded as out for the money.

And WMH takes it a step further and even tries to knock him for phantom injuries. This about a guy who hasn't missed a game in over 2 years. A guy who played 16 games last year when many vets would have shut down on a 2-14 season with Keenum at QB. A guy who has played 88% of his team's games in an 11 year career. A guy who has never gone on IR and shut down a season, but has always rehabbed back in season.

Anyone who wants to throw around blind insults at AJ for missing a minicamp is an idiot. He has been plenty committed to our organization winning games. I just wish Bob McNair and company were as committed to winning as AJ is. Since rolling out a team with no QB is the front office equivalent to going down "injured" with no contact.

I don't really care if he misses all of camp. As long as he's ready to entertain me come September, I'm good with that.

And your stats are a bit misleading. I don't have the interest to look it up, but I'd assume his games played % has dwindled the last couple of years. Hope he makes it thru all 16 again this year, it's more entertaining that way. Father Time is betting against him.

In the last 2 seasons he has played 32 games without missing one while catching 221 balls. I don't think the 2009-2011 injuries were exclusively about age. I am guessing he saw something about how his body was reacting as he aged and made some kind of adjustment in his training (redistribution of weight, increased stretching, more deer antler spray, or some other fix), but either way he hasn't been hurt since 2011.

Wasn't hard to look up. AJ has played 154 out of 176 games in 11 years.

Which is .875 of games.

Speculating, probably more than average even younger player as almost everyone gets occasional injury. Or for AJ percent would have been lower when he was younger, counter intuitive.