I'm done with Kubiak and Schaub. They need to go
 

I am sick and tired of watching Kubiak get a lead and then taking his foot off the gas and letting the other team back into games.

And Matt Schaub has made bone headed throw after bone headed throw. I am tired of defending them.

They need to be replaced by next season.

Shaub needs to be replaced now

On Houston's 3 and out with the 20-13 lead we called 3 straight pass plays. In the 2nd half with a lead the whole time we called 11 passes and 9 runs before the drive with the pick 6. We ran the same offense and called the same plays in the 2nd half. Kubiak did nothing to cost us this game. He had his guys more than ready to start the game for the first time all year. He mixed up the play calling beautifully against the league's best defense. And then Matt Schaub throws it to the other team. That is 3 games in a row Schaub has thrown a TD for the other guys.

Kubiak cannot make the plays for these guys. He can't make Ben Tate hold onto the ball (and prepare for him to get burried like last year). This team is broken and Matt Schaub is what needs to be fixed. It is amazing Kubiak has gotten 2 division titles and a pair of playoff wins out of our brutal QB play.

But Schaub is Kubiak's chosen one, for whom he's made no effort to even bring in any competition. Don't see how the failings of his guy absolves him. By his actions, Kubiak bet on Schaub being the guy. He has to answer for that.

He bet on Schaub over who? Name me the playoff team that ever spent a high draft pick or FA money on a backup QB to give their starter competition.

Schaub got a free pass 2 years ago by being hurt. Then he tanked at the end of last year and is obviously on short leash career in houston wise. The GM made critical media statements about him after last week. He is in a make or break year. If we get this for 16 weeks and don't go past round 2, I'd be shocked if Schaub survives. Rick Smith is the ultimate decision maker on this stuff and has never been shy about making moves.

San Fran took the job away from the guy that took them to the NFC championship game last year. And then got to the Super Bowl.

And let's not act like Schaub's shortcomings are new. It's been a topic for well over a year. In fact, go back and pull up the thread when it was rumored that we were Manning's first choice, I, along with others (but not Bob, he was still advocating for assembling the elusive perfect roster around Schaub), couldn't believe the Texans weren't willing to even explore this. Can you imagine this team with Manning? But, no, we had Schaub, why would we consider one of the best to ever play the game.

Regardless of what everyone else has done, Kubiak's job is to put together the best football team he can. There is no indication he's even considered bringing in any competition since the minute he and Schaub played golf together 7 years ago and Schaub wowed him with his ability to talk football when there's not a defender within 5 miles. That's on him.

SF was not creating competition, they had a new coach who took a year to replace the QB he never wanted. He tried to replace him that summer and then did replace him that season.

But I agree we were stupid not going after Manning. I said it in that thread and say it again. I have no problem with anyone saying we should have replaced Schaub. It is not often done with a QB on a playoff team, but it should have been (should be). But you don't bring in competition for an established starter, you replace them or you don't.

Actually, I was a kinda pissed Kubiak didn't take his foot off the gas and had Schaub throwing on the play that led to the pick 6.

But that's just me.

We're probably talking past each other and it's partly my fault for not being clear. It's not that I want competition per se, it's that I want to see some indication that Kubiak sees what the rest of us see--that Schaub is a middling QB that it will be basically impossible to win with. However, he's done nothing to suggest that he has. Whether its a free agent, a draft pick, answering the phone when Peyton freakin' Manning calls, etc., everything he has done the last 3 years indicates he thinks Schaub is the guy or he's loyal to a fault.

I really checked out when they refused to even consider Manning.

+1 .

This was the second most miserable loss I felt at Reliant, (VY's OT run being #1) and I have not missed a home game. I have been a Schaub supporter but I am done...its over...same mistakes over and over. At that point in the game he has to take the sack....seriously...sick. Here are his cap #'s. He is our QB until 2014.

here is a salary cap link

overthecap.com

I've never been a big Kubiak or Schaub basher. With Kubiak, I'm well aware of his shortcomings and am willing to forgive his (IMO, minor) trespasses and conservatism.... But his QB is really making him look bad, lately.

With Schaub, I had absolutely no gripes towards him early in his career. It was nice watching the franchise go from a loser into a winner and a playoff team. And then there was that confusing set of OT's games last year (Det and Jax) where he was alternately good and bad (threw an INT in both OT's). This was followed by mainly poor showing down the 1-3 stretch. They beat Cincy in the playoffs then crumbled against New England (not a good day for the defense either). I'm not sure why this is. Some have speculated he's (Schaub) not the same after the lis franc injury which, the way I understand it, can have a deteriorating effect over time and even become arthritic.... he's not stepping into his throws with the same conviction.

At some point, the bad starts outweighing the good.

Can he (Schaub) turn it around and salvage this season? Still 12 games to go.... but I'm not optimistic about this. Tne problem is, there is no Kubiak doghouse for Matt Schaub. I'd say everybody else - yes. I'm afraid Kubiak is willing to go down with the ship (Schaub) because (paraphrasing) "he gives us our best shot to advance".

Some act as though if Yates or Keenum were to start getting a few snaps that the season would be over. All through NFL history there have been instances where a team's backup QB has led a team to the playoffs and even the Superbowl. The Texans really should consider giving Schaub some pine time occasionally when he's stinking it up. But it'll probably never happen..... and that part is on Kubiak.....

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Kubes fell on his sword post-game saying it was on him (of course) - the pick six. He said (paraphrasing) "was trying to stay aggressive". lol, a 5 yard dink pass to OD is "aggressive"? We've got different definitions of aggressive...

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After having a nice first half, can we not go into victory formation in the 3rd quarter?

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On to Sunday Night Football next weekend against SF. Early line, the 49'ers are favored by 6.5 to 7.

I agree with everything you said, Arky. And I think the only ones in Houston right now that still feel Schaub is the answer are the 3 boobs running the show - McNair, Smith and Kubiak. Can Yates/Keenum seriously be THAT much worse than Schaub? I don't think so. In fact, I think that if they had someone back there that even had the slightest ability to get out of the pocket and run when things break down this offense would so much more effective. It blows my mind the boob HC can't see that. Schaub is a game manager at this point in his career, and not a very good one at that. I'm pretty confident Yates and/or Keenum can manage a game.

Not sure how accurate this is, but maybe we're not as tethered cap-wise to Schaub as we once thought...

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...er-the-season/

EDIT: Added the link

$7 mil in 2015 is still a lot to pay for somebody to play elsewhere. I like Schaub as a person and I don't think he gets enough credit for his toughness but he doesn't adjust well on the fly (start running on 3rd and 10+...Really?).

I blame the play-calling more. If I can guess what's coming on key downs, certainly people who are paid to study film and study tendencies know what's coming. Most of our plays can be stopped if they are telegraphed. If it's third and under 2, it's Arian to the left. If it's more than 2, it's a dump in the flat. Now is that because Schaub can no longer throw deep or because Kubiak has lost his imaginzation?

They also faked the reverse countless times and, to my knowledge, never actually ran the reverse. If you don't ever run the reverse, all you are doing by faking it is wasting precious seconds and drawing one defender to your QB.

So the Texans run on 3rd and 9 before halftime, then have Schaub throw the pick 6 on 3rd and 4 in the 4th quarter to blow the lead. I am so confused by what the thought processes are here.

So yeah, I blame some of the playcalling on occasion, but Schaub has more than one option on every pass play called. That said, I think Schaub is a reflection of his head coach. It also seems Schaub should be allowed to audible more.

The problem with Schaub and Kubiak leaving is that it would seem to make Wade Phillips the de facto hire. Tough to see a scenario where McNair would bring in someone else and not promote Phillips. Not sure what we would have to go on to believe that Phillips would be a fantastic HC.

If you think Schaub is tough, I'm generally curious as to what QBs you don't think are tough. Now, I realize "toughness" is a difficult thing to quantify and invariably it comes down to one person's subjective opinion versus another, but Schaub's play and body language has rarely suggested toughness to me.

In fact, I might could even live with his physical limitations if he was the type of guy to stand in there and take a shot while trying to make a play. But he's never that guy. I can't think of anyone who curls up faster than Schaub at the first sight of pressure.

When watching the game yesterday there was a moment in the second half where it looked like Schaub changed. They had a close up of him and you could almost see that he was nervous. Then a few plays later he got "sacked". I put that in quotes because he went down before he was ever even touched, basically conceding as opposed to standing I and throwing it away.when everything is going according to schedule he is a more than adequate qb, but the second things start to move in the wrong direction he seems to be unable to improvise due to his nerves.

True, but if they draft a qb the drop in base salary would make that much easier to deal with for a year.

I was scrolling through an "other games" thread on a Broncos board and even they were wondering why blows to the head aren't called when Schaub is QB (except for the ear-tearing hit by Joe Mays last year).

He has probably had concussion issues the Texans keep quiet about and I also think his shoulder is worse than it was a few years ago judged by the way his passes seem to float to their target.

During his first year here, there was a lot of public questioning of Schaub's toughness and it makes me think that he refuses to address the subject now because it will never shut up the critics anyway. But the man takes a beating and I don't hear him publicly complain and I don't see his lineman ever retaliate.

That doesn't mean I'm not ready to see Yates or Keenum get a chance to do better. I'm just saying I respect the way he deals with the physical abuse he gets.

Interesting read from Barnwell:
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/...broncos-week-4

Schaub Story
It's safe to say that Texans fans are beginning to turn on Matt Schaub. Schaub, whose skill level almost perfectly matches the public perception that the Texans are good enough to make the playoffs and not good enough to do any serious damage once they get there, threw a horrific pick-six on Sunday to open the door for a Seahawks comeback win, which is exactly what ended up occurring in overtime. Houston fans were so angry after the game and Schaub's third pick-six in three weeks that they went to the parking lot and started burning Schaub's jersey. That's the third-most destructive act you can execute as a Houston sports fan after denouncing advanced basketball statistics and attending an Astros game, so these are pretty brutal times.

Allow me to play both sides here. Schaub's interception was grotesque and impossibly ill-advised, and it's been a distressing stretch of pick-sixes from him, but this bad run comes with some excuses and there's no reason to think that Houston absolutely needs to upgrade from Schaub to have a quarterback "good enough" to win the Super Bowl.

Start with that throw, which was more shocking and virulent than anything else on television Sunday night. The throw itself is ugly on aesthetics alone; Schaub rolls out right off play-action and, with a man in his face, decides to lob up a pass to a receiver he must have thought was wide open. Somehow, he fails to see the best cornerback in the league lurking behind that tight end, and Richard Sherman is all too happy to undercut the throw as it hangs in space for all eternity. It's a pass we would all have made fun of for weeks had it been thrown by Mark Sanchez or Blaine Gabbert.

What's worse is that it came in a situation when Schaub needed to err on the side of protecting the football. Houston was facing a third-and-4 with 2:51 left in a game where it was up 20-13; even if the Texans didn't convert on third down and punted, Seattle was going to have to drive the length of the field and score a touchdown to tie the game. I'm all for being aggressive and trying to win games, and I actually like Gary Kubiak's decision to try to throw the ball with a safe pass underneath on third down, but Schaub should never have even considered forcing a throw. He should have been happy to take a sack and either run clock or force Seattle to take a timeout. He needs to know that, and you can imagine how hard it will be for Kubiak to trust him in the same situation next time, even though a throw might be the best call in that game down the line. In all, ESPN Stats & Information calculated Schaub's interception to be the most meaningful play of the week in terms of win expectancy, as the Texans had a 95.1 percent chance of winning the game before the play and merely a 56.3 percent chance of winning afterward. The game wasn't over, since Houston still had a two-minute drill and two drives in overtime to try to win the game, but it failed to score on any of those possessions and lost a heartbreaker when the Seahawks kicked a field goal to win it late in overtime.

Terrible throw. Now, again, let's put it in context. It was Schaub's third pick-six in three weeks, but it's not like Schaub has some disease where he throws awful pick-sixes; according to Pro-Football-Reference.com, Schaub didn't throw a single pick-six in either the 2011 or 2012 seasons. He has 10 across seven seasons as the Houston starter, which isn't an egregious average. Fans wouldn't think too hard about a quarterback throwing an interception per week over a three-week stretch, but because they've resulted in instant touchdowns, fans are naturally more upset about the results of those interceptions.

That's part of being a fan, but it doesn't mean Schaub is somehow doomed to be a guy who gives up too many dangerous throws for pick-sixes. Plenty of famous quarterbacks have thrown three pick-sixes (or more!) in a three-week stretch before or during successful careers that included Super Bowl–winning seasons. Ben Roethlisberger and Drew Brees each had three-game stretches with three or more pick-sixes and then didn't throw another one for a year each. Peyton Manning had such a stretch in 2001, threw one pick-six between 2002 and 2006, did the same thing again in 2008, didn't throw a pick-six in 2009, then threw four of them in two weeks in 2010. He's still doing OK.

In fact, Eli Manning threw three pick-sixes in one game against the Vikings in November 2007 and didn't throw another pick-six until the following campaign. That ugly game also started a dismal run for Eli, one which suggested he might not be ready to play at the high level the Giants envisioned after taking him first overall. Sure enough, Manning was dragged to the playoffs by his team at the end of the season and put together an incredible run there, producing an unlikely Super Bowl win just two and a half months after his three-pick-six day.

That Eli could play so poorly and still get a ring speaks volumes to how useless the "good enough to win the Super Bowl" signifier is. We5 treat it at times as if it's some kind of clear line of demarcation — like you need to be this tall to ride the roller coaster and this good to win the Super Bowl. Recent history should tell us that there's no such clear line.

Pretend, for a moment, that Eli Manning and Joe Flacco had produced the same Week 4 performances this week without any notable run in the playoffs to their name. Would anybody in their right mind look at their days (or 2013 seasons, for that matter) and suggest they were good enough to win the Super Bowl? Of course not! In fact, Giants and Ravens fans would be sitting in the same parking lots saying the same things about how they needed to upgrade at quarterback to have any hope of winning a Super Bowl. Because Manning and Flacco each already won a Lombardi Trophy, we don't think about them in the "not good enough to win a Super Bowl" way, despite what their poor performance would otherwise suggest. Just as they were capable of winning a Super Bowl and are still capable of having bad games, Schaub can have a bad game (or string of games) and still be capable of winning the Super Bowl.

And like any quarterback, he's going to need help from his team, which hasn't offered much: Arian Foster's per-carry numbers are down, as he's averaging 3.8. Andre Johnson got hurt and has missed time over the past few weeks. The team has already been without elite left tackle Duane Brown for the past two games, and star inside linebacker Brian Cushing missed the fourth quarter (when Seattle came back from 20-6 down to tie it up) with a concussion. Remember that Flacco struggled a year ago once his team started losing talented veterans left and right and only really righted the ship once they started making it back onto the field in January.

I feel comfortable saying Schaub is good enough to win a Super Bowl, because I've seen quarterbacks who were worse than him during their season at the helm get hot during the playoffs and win the big trophy. As critical as you are of his throw (and you should be, since it was terrible), there's nothing about it that proves he can't win when it really counts in the longer term. Let T.J. Yates sit on the bench. Schaub should be the guy in Houston. At the very least, when you've got nothing to wear six weeks from now, you're gonna really wish you didn't burn your jersey in the parking lot.


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Great read, level-headed. And I'd agree if this single game existed in a vacuum, but it is just the latest step in a downward spiral.

The concussion point is a good one... a concussion could explain some foggy decision making.

I guess crazier things have happened but I can't conceive of a scenario where Schaub gets "hot." He doesn't have the arm strength to bomb it, doesn't have the legs to scramble, and doesn't have the testicular fortitude to stand in there when pressure comes. So, how is he going to get "hot" unless hot simply means the team as a whole is playing so well that Schaub simply never has to make a play out of nothing.

I don't know if "hot" would accurately describe him, but he was pretty good in the 2nd half of the San Diego and in OT vs. the Titans.

I believe we are tied to him for '13 and '14, and I am HOPEFUL we will take someone in Round 1 as his replacement.

The article brings up some good points. However, the author focuses way too much on the Schaub's pick-6 history and apparently has not watched very many Texans games over the last couple of years. Maybe he has and has just forgotten what Scahub has become. Of course people are upset about the recent pick-6's, but the author completely ignores the phantom sacks, the lack of zip in his throws, the untimely INTs (the non-pick6 variety), as well as all failures Schaub has had against prime competition when it counts the most.

I'm not even going to bring up Schaub's name in comparison to P. Manning or Brees, but as far as Flacco and Eli go, while those two can play poorly, they can also carry a team (like they have done in the playoffs) and can get hot as hell at times. I don't think Schaub has ever been mistaken for someone that can carry a team. Certainly not now. At this moment, I don't any way in God's creation Schaub is going to win a Super Bowl, whereas, I could see Flacco or Eli winning another one.

Ironically enough, this is what Bill Simmons (Bill Barnwell's boss at Grantland) had to say about Schaub last Friday when making his pick for the Texans-Seahawks game -- "In case you want to know how Houston's Super Bowl chances are looking right now, a reader named Shyan in London recently sent me an inspired e-mail comparing Matt Schaub to Rudy Gay. Really solid analogy. Because of Schaub, I don't know if Houston has an A-game — it's more of a B-plus-at-best game."

I think that gets it right.

Sure, he's capable of playing pretty well for a half against OK teams. But "hot" in the playoffs will probably require going and out beating Balt., Denver, Cincy, etc. or some combination thereof for 3 straight weeks (and probably on the road) and then taking on the NFC Champion. Just can't fathom a scenario where he plays lights out for over a month against the best competition in the most pressure filled environment.

I agree with this 100%. You cannot win in the postseason without great QB play. Eli Manning and Joe Flacco are both worse than Matt Schaub on a week to week basis. They turn in more stinkers than any real starting QB. Rothleisberger is no better week to week than Schaub is. But all 3 of those guys have a hot to go with their cold that Schaub doesn't have. Schaub is simply luke warm. And since the middle of last season he is luke warm with no arm. He looks like a pitcher who lost his fastball and occasionally gets taken deep because he is trying to play the same game with a 85 mph fastball. There is no scenario in which he plays out of his mind in the playoffs and we win a superbowl with him. So what are we hanging on a single week more for? I really like Matt Schaub but kudos to the guy who burned his jersey in the parking lot and lets do it 10,000 more times until someone listens.

Adam Wexler‏@awexler13m
Kubiak asked if Schaub had freedom to audible out of play called on 3rd & 4 (pick-6). He said no. Once it was called they just go. #Texans

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/pos...-out-this-year

So no more cash... but the dead money on the cap is still something to remember.

So if they cut Schaub then all they have to deal with is the remainder of the prorated bonus being accelerated to this year? So 17.5 over 5 years with 2 years accounted for already leaves %60 of the bonus unaccounted? Or almost $12 million in dead money? Now I am guessing there is a deadline (June 1?) that allows it to be spread over 2 seasons?

If we went much cheaper at QB it would be possible. Any rookie QB or a scrap heap guy (freeman), could be fit under the cap.

And let me just say the woman that ESPN took from the Chronicle is terrible. She is basically a Texans puff piece writer. Not one ounce of football analysis or anything close to critical. I went from checking the ESPN afc south blog everyday and complaining about what Kuharsky wrote to not checking or caring at all.

I get almost all of my Texans news from fan sites like this. Basically if by some miracle someone somewhere writes something about the Texans that isn't completely brain-dead it will get referenced. There is certainly no need to read with regularity the Chronicle or ESPN or any other similar lowest common denominator sort of site.

That's what I've been trying to convey since before the season began. If anyone still has the third game of the pre-season (Saints, IIRC), go back and look at that game and look at Schaub's delivery vs. Yates'. Yates has some zing to his passes I haven't seen from Schaub since mid-season last year. Grantland said his Pick 6 floated for all eternity and that's what too many of his throws have looked like this season, forcing his receivers to win jump balls (hello, Hopkins) or preventing them from getting significant YAC because the defender has time to break on the pass.

Now, if you have the early games from last year (Broncos, Jets), you can see the zing is there. Compare that to his second half of 2012 and this year and it is missing. That's why I believe he has a shoulder problem he has been hiding.

Since we're on this subject, where in the world did network execs get the idea that HOF players make good analysts? Some of them have just stepped out of the clubhouse shower, put on a monkey suit and there they are in front of national cameras. You know how they do it...... four ex-jocks dressed in $1000 suits, standing in front the of camera spaced precisely 1 meter apart....eheh....

I'm not a fantasy football player but I swear I get better info listening to the geeky white (and black) guys on the fantasy football shows..... Sure beats listening to Michael Irvin mumble through an analysis....

It's the "jockocracy" Howard Cosell used to rail about - sports color ananlyst is, he says, the one position in life where you can start at the very top of the profession with no qualifications and no training whatsoever other than to be a household name that has retired from the sport they are covering.

If Brett Favre wanted to be an NFL tv analyst, the four networks would be at his door in seconds vying to sign him and they'd put him on their top programs.

Then you toss in the female sideline reporters whose only qualification seems to be their looks and their ability to look firmly into the eyes of a head coach and ask them with a straight face about their feelings. The better ones can actually follow this up with a question about what the coach would like to see the team do better in the second half. I will say that at least the eye candy is better viewing than having Jim Gray or Tony Siragusa asking the same questions.

I still get a laugh out of Troy Aikman spending his first year in the booth with Moose Johnston as a second color analyst as if Aikman need to be protected from any blitzing questions from Joe Buck that might try to sack Troy for a loss.

I kinda remember this - the Cosell bit. Seemed like he was railing about the Dandy Don's, the OJ Simpson's and the Joe Namath's of the day getting the cushy announcer jobs. Ol' Howard would be rolling in his grave if he could see how prevalent it has become today.....

Aikman, IMO, has gotten pretty good over time. He still has his Captain Obvious moments, though. Not quite sure he deserves to be on the "A-team" for FOX but he is.

While some of the jocks are pretty good or at least have "personality", there are others who don't have much going for them - great athletes in their day but not the best announcers/analysts...

So, just wondering, since most of discussion has been about Schaub,

If Kubiak went but Schaub stayed, would Schaub improve suffeciently, say he had a Fox for his coach?

or even other way around, if Schaub left, would Kubiak get better - for instance if he had a Wilson or Luck as his new QB?

I don't think Kubiak adjusts his offense much based on who his QB is. He is a WCO disciple and doesn't really stray much from it. He might put in more bootleg runs if he had a "running QB" like he had with Jake Plummer. In some ways, it's a testament to the WCO that the system still gets results when everyone knows what's coming.

If Kubiak was fired and Schaub had another coach calling plays, it would probably break a lot of tendencies but I doubt Schaub improves in a different offensive system.

I'd be very curious what the 0-4 New York Giants would take in trade for Ryan Nassib. A 'top ranked' prospect to back up Eli Manning isn't expected to see the field anytime soon. So, I would think they merely drafted him to eventually trade him anyway. Cosell and Gruden like him too.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap100...eg-cosell-says

AND

http://www.syracuse.com/axeman/index...an_nassib.html

I'd send a #2 and Yates to WASH in a heartbeat for Cousins. Might even consider a #1. I think he'd be a perfect for Kubiak's system and I think he'd be a safer bet than any of the 2014 rookies coming in.

But yeah, Nassib's worth a look and maybe even Dysert as long as you can get them on the cheap. Crap, I'm almost thinking Weeden is worth a look for the short-term. Yikes!